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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    I really get sick of these kinds of debates sprouding up, mostly because it is done by the very people that shouldn't be advocating for such things, because the logical line that follows there shouldnt be that many people alive, then it graduates into well what do we do to trim the population, and using mathmatics to marginalise human beings, what we think what they can do, etc.


    I am seriously disturbed by this trend of looking at problems and trying to find the simplist solutions even though most of the people that have the superior so called mindsets would be the very last to be subjects the next line of thinking.


    Honestly shit like this eventually leads to thinks like genoicide, racism, and other kinds of psychotic behavior. I agree too many people are a problem, but I just fear the people who stroke these kinds of debates aren't anywhere near smart enough to know how to go about asking better questions.
    Yeah, it's happened since Modern Humans/Cro Magnon (EEHM) split. It doesn't matter who or what is right. All that matters is who gets to the write the history at the end.

    I want Humans to be writing that history. I don't care and it doesn't matter about Race, Creed, or Wealth. Skin doesn't matter to me at all, Species does. If Aliens come around, they want to start shit, fuck them too. Eat their bodies(if it doesn't kill you), Vegeta and Nappa style. All about the Humans.

  2. #242
    I already said this once in the thread but I will say it again to push the point forward.

    What is he going to do about it? What are any of us going to do about it?

    Pretty much 'No' space program is looking for how to expand into Outer-space, Closest planet being Mars. Obama cut off Nasa's balls making them effectively useless, And the sad fact is...Bioware and Redbull have better space Programs than the US itself does right now.

    Until HE or any of you can figure out where we go from here, No one can say we are a plague. Where are we going to go? Eventually, We will run earth dry, And then what? We cannot live here forever.

    Sure, Most of us right now will not live to see that day that Earth runs dry of it's resources, But people in the future will

  3. #243
    I don't know what these people want.

    I suspect it isn't very positive for humans though...
    The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities.

  4. #244
    It's a shame green tech like solar and wind are still pretty weak atm. Hopefully there will come a time when this is no longer the case so we can finally stop relying on oil and coal.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    this is basic environmental science 101 here.
    *SNIP*
    No. Well; yes, what you linked is absolutely true... What's wrong with your post, however, is a little thing called 'bias.'
    For instance: The 'ecological health of the entire park' was fine without wolves. What wasn't fine was the conservation of said eco-system. That is: The eco-system was changing, and by re-introducing wolves in the area, the eco-system reverted back to what it previously was known to be like to modern Western people.

    You hinge your argument on your personal bias on how you feel nature SHOULD be, rather than what it is. The entire nature-conservation movement is critically at flawed because of it; they just won't accept the fact that nature constantly changes, and that there is no such thing as balance. Hell; they want to conserve and preserve! But Yellowstone hasn't always been what it's like today. It used to be completely covered in thick, dense woodlands, far as the bird could see. Yet that is not the kind of landscape that nature conservation groups want to re-furbish. What they want is the combination of woodlands, plains and bare mountains that it is today. But it only becáme that way due to human intervention.

    In Scotland, the Forest Landscape Restoration group is trying to make people understand that Scotland wasn't always this barren. That once, it was completely covered in oak and pine woods. No luck; the nature conservation groups want to restore Scotland to what théy think it SHOULD be.

    In the Netherlands, heather is an iconic landscape type, and nature conservation groups are working hard to keep the landscape the way it is, and keep the ecology of a heather landscape 'healthy.' But the truth of the matter is that heather-based eco-systems are merely a phase. They fit in between sand-dunes and forest. Yet nature conservation groups are trying to prevent them turning into forest because they perceive heather as the natural local ecosystem... Simply because they have no reference from memory, and are, therefore, heavily biased.

    Everything in nature constantly evolves, adapts, changes and adapts again. Everything that doesn't dies off. Such is nature. There is no balance, no equilibrium, and no self-monitoring system.

    Edit post: For the record, I have minors in Environmental Studies and Ecology. My partner is a Master of Science in the field of Biology, with a specialization in Ecology.
    Most of my information on organizations like the FLR and Dutch nature conservation groups, as well as their motives, practices, applied sciences and statistics, comes from my experience as a professional translator specialized partially in that field.
    So... Your 'basic environmental science' bitty is still wrong. I am speaking as a professional, here.

    Now; the debate on what nature is to be to people, and how we define nature as a landscape, is really difficult since the debate also includes any human-crafted environment such as agricultural lands. Indeed, much of the debate is taken up by this bias that you yourself portray, since this bias plays a very large part in conservation and restoration ideals and practice. But that is not really important for this particular debate.
    Last edited by Stir; 2013-01-23 at 05:13 AM.

  6. #246
    You hinge your argument on your personal bias on how you feel nature SHOULD be, rather than what it is. The entire nature-conservation movement is critically at flawed because of it; they just won't accept the fact that nature constantly changes, and that there is no such thing as balance. Hell; they want to conserve and preserve! But Yellowstone hasn't always been what it's like today. It used to be completely covered in thick, dense woodlands, far as the bird could see. Yet that is not the kind of landscape that nature conservation groups want to re-furbish. What they want is the combination of woodlands, plains and bare mountains that it is today. But it only becáme that way due to human intervention.
    my point was that nature has self correcting mechanisms- if the wolves had simply died out it would have been the same situation of the ecosystem beginning to collapse until a new predator came in. in fact in some parts if the US coyotes are starting to fill that niche.
    it changes when those mechanisms are disrupted, for whatever reason, and works to get another kind of balance. like how a pendulum is always trying to reach the middle, but gets pushed along.

    we are the main factor in disruption at the moment, and will eventually be "corrected".

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    my point was that nature has self correcting mechanisms- if the wolves had simply died out it would have been the same situation of the ecosystem beginning to collapse until a new predator came in. in fact in some parts if the US coyotes are starting to fill that niche.
    it changes when those mechanisms are disrupted, for whatever reason, and works to get another kind of balance. like how a pendulum is always trying to reach the middle, but gets pushed along.

    we are the main factor in disruption at the moment, and will eventually be "corrected".
    You're clearly not getting it.
    Let me try to explain again:
    Nature has no self-correcting mechanisms. Stuff dies, other stuff doesn't. Again you're saying the ecosystem would collapse... It wouldn't. It would change.
    When what you know is no longer the way you knew it to be years ago, then that doesn't mean it's died or become 'bad,' or anything the like. It just changes. That is all.

    As for your pendulum:
    Predator eats non-predator.
    Non-predator adapts.
    Predator dies.
    Some predators adapt, and eat non-predator.
    Non-predator adapts.
    Predator dies.
    ... Etcetera.

    This is NOT balance. Rather, it is a constant series of severe imbalance. Scales are tipped all the time, but they never, ever, ever balance out.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    Humans are animals, in the same way a Rectangle is a Square.
    Dude really.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    There are no 2 species that are 100% identical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redditor
    can you leftist twits just fucking admit that quantum mechanics has fuck all to do with thermodynamics, that shit is just a pose?

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Human overpopulation? We don't have a population issue, we have, will have a resource issue though..
    This pretty much. Population is never an issue as long as you find ressources at the same paste. It will probably end up in space colonisation at some point in the future, unless a huge natural desaster / WW3 take a big chunk of world's population. A nuclear total war would just solve the 'problem' considering most population gather in a small number of cities in each country. It would be desastreous for the planet though.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Garnier Fructis View Post
    Dude really.
    Yeah... I'm not even going to reply to that post. Honestly; don't bother. They won't listen, and will refuse to understand in any case...

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    This philosophy happens after every big boon and decline. Near the fall of Rome, people literally had nothing to do. They just lined the streets en masses. This continued to happen until the Black Death nearly wiping out the entire Human population. Then gave the remaining people freedom.
    Just so you know, this never happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerfiend View Post
    Humans are animals, in the same way a Rectangle is a Square.
    While you're brushing up on your Roman history I recommend looking into your education on biology as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Just so you know, this never happened.



    While you're brushing up on your Roman history I recommend looking into your education on biology as well.
    His geometry could use some work too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    There are no 2 species that are 100% identical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redditor
    can you leftist twits just fucking admit that quantum mechanics has fuck all to do with thermodynamics, that shit is just a pose?

  13. #253
    I'd say he's correct in theory, but i'd substitute 'plague' for 'venom'.

    Out of every venom can come an anti-venom, and that's what we have to work toward.

    If not, my life hasn't been so bad. May my potential(ly non-existent) descendants fare well in my absence in years to come.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    You're clearly not getting it.
    Let me try to explain again:
    Nature has no self-correcting mechanisms. Stuff dies, other stuff doesn't. Again you're saying the ecosystem would collapse... It wouldn't. It would change.
    When what you know is no longer the way you knew it to be years ago, then that doesn't mean it's died or become 'bad,' or anything the like. It just changes. That is all.
    right. it changes to be balanced again. a forest turning into a desert is imbalanced, a full desert is balanced.
    As for your pendulum:
    Predator eats non-predator.
    Non-predator adapts.
    Predator dies.
    Some predators adapt, and eat non-predator.
    Non-predator adapts.
    Predator dies.
    ... Etcetera.

    This is NOT balance. Rather, it is a constant series of severe imbalance. Scales are tipped all the time, but they never, ever, ever balance out.
    the whole reason they tip is to balance out the other tip. just like a pendulum.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Just so you know, this never happened.



    While you're brushing up on your Roman history I recommend looking into your education on biology as well.
    Unemployment
    During the latter years of the empire farming was done on large estates called latifundia that were owned by wealthy men who used slave labor. A farmer who had to pay workmen could not produce goods as cheaply. Many farmers could not compete with these low prices and lost or sold their farms. This not only undermined the citizen farmer who passed his values to his family, but also filled the cities with unemployed people. At one time, the emperor was importing grain to feed more than 100,000 people in Rome alone. These people were not only a burden but also had little to do but cause trouble and contribute to an ever increasing crime rate.

    I think you need to touch up on your Roman history Sir. Or better yet, shut your face, cause I just shut it for you.


    Middle Ages

    About 20% of the medieval population were destitute and homeless, wandering the roads of Europe looking for work or for charity, and climbing beneath a roadside hedge to die. Although they were ubiquitous, they have been neglected by historians because of the lack of sources discussing them directly. One exception was the starving beggars who followed "King" Tafur on the First Crusade. They were utterly without fear and, when food was low, would go out and capture one of the Muslim opponents. They would then roast and eat him. Leaders of both Muslims and Christians feared the beggars and finally conspired to lure them out into a waterless desert and abandon them there without supplied. Only a few survived.


    Leftover destitute from the Roman Empire. These homeless, unclean, and unemployed beggars pretty much brought about the Plague.


    Sorry, I wasn't referring the fact that Humans aren't Animals, we are. Though, not in the Mind. We are from the same stock, the very same carrots, onions, celery, thyme, bay leaf, and peppercorns. Yet, we are surprisingly different as well. Not fully, but we understand the world around us. We are lucky enough to be Atoms that understand Atoms.

    I was merely stating that to a kin Human life to an animal, is only something a Human would do. Humans are far beyond that concept, we need to literally take over Mother Nature in order to survive as a Species. Quite frankly, we need to Gods. If only for the sake of Humanity, much less, the entirety of the Universe. For if we fail to do so, then we will only suffer at Mother Nature itself. I say: Fuck Her.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 01:43 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Garnier Fructis View Post
    Dude really.
    Screw you, I said it backwards, Fuck me right?

    You get my point. We aren't the same fucking Animals. Nor should we be concerned about them either. If they aren't useful then they are a waste of time and potentially be the cause and the bane of human existence.

  16. #256
    What does any of that have to do with overpopulation? Latifundi buying out Roman farmers was due to the economics of slave labour and the immense buying power of Latifundi... they certainly didn't stand around until the Black Death over a thousand years later in a totally different country...

    The rest of your post is just plain gibberish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    What does any of that have to do with overpopulation? Latifundi buying out Roman farmers was due to the economics of slave labour and the immense buying power of Latifundi... they certainly didn't stand around until the Black Death over a thousand years later in a totally different country...

    The rest of your post is just plain gibberish.
    It has everything to do with it, Cowboy. The Fall of the Roman empire brought about the Dark Ages or the Early Middle Age. The leftover useless beggars, sat in streets, and festered until popping. This never corrected itself until most of the population was gone.


    There have been three major outbreaks of plague. The Plague of Justinian in the 6th and 7th centuries is the first known attack on record, and marks the first firmly recorded pattern of bubonic plague. From historical descriptions, as much as 40 percent of the population of Constantinople died from the plague. Modern estimates suggest half of Europe's population was wiped out before the plague disappeared in the 700s.[8] After 750, major epidemic diseases did not appear again in Europe until the Black Death of the 14th century.[9] The Third Pandemic hit China in the 1890s and devastated India, but was confined to limited outbreaks in the west.[10]

    Really, dude? Do you even school?


    Basically, the over population of Early European history brought about the first scourge. These people were uneducated, unclean, and entirely useless. They had no jobs, money, and no way of life, and literally sat in the streets due to being useless. It even talks about it in the Bible... I mean how can you not attribute that to overpopulation after a huge boon to a society, then to collapse of the foundation which brought them forth?

    Do you even deduct?
    Last edited by Jokerfiend; 2013-01-23 at 07:06 AM.

  18. #258
    it's funny how its always the non-westerners that are implied to be the "plague" or whatever other noun/adjective is used to paint a picture how "they" are doing it wrong.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Annapolis View Post
    I have to agree with Spectral. If this guy is going to use strong words like plague, wouldn't suicide be the best way to fix such a thing? He at least shouldn't have had 2 kids. Kind of hard to argue that populating the Earth is such a terrible thing when you do it yourself.
    That's why I describe them as parasites, as they will do anything for self preservation and reproduction even if it means destroying their own natural habitat

  20. #260
    Deleted
    Humans are a virus


    - Agent Smith

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