Ganking - Official Blue Response

[Peng]

Players have always been able to kill low level characters, this isn't something new with CRZ.

What a poor statement. If we all would think and act like this we would still sit in our cave. Without fire. Fire is change. Change is evil.

[Jaylock]

I think ganking in most occasions is fine. But: ganking/griefing low level plaeyrs in X-realm enviroment is not fine. -> To solve this I would suggest that Blizzard should re-introduce "dishonorable kill"-system, ecpesially when it comes to ganking more than 5 or even more lower level players. I myself play in PvP-realm and my servers gank-culture is umm.. how to say, kinda polite. I'm horde and I rarely get ganked by same level alliance players, even if we're doing same dailies etc.(in addition if they outnumber me say by 2++). So this "If it's Red, It's dead" is a really bad statement IMO. It just shows the lack of moral that some kids have.

Edit: I rarely gank alliance plaeyrs myself, unless they are forcing me to.

How is "if its red, its dead" a bad statement, when both parties who rolled on the server know the rules and consequences of doing so?

[Deleted]

they ganked me 8x with 6 ppl on my alt then i logged main reganked them for 1 hour non stop
wisper mode on : stop ganking us..... your 90
reply : idk your ganking my alt with 4 ppl coward
relogg and alliance flew away to cry another day

[Deleted]

I've got an easy fix.
If you kill someone in world pvp that is, lets say 3 or more levels lower than you, you gets a debuff so you can't mount for lets say 3 minutes. Now you can't get away after ganking and are prone to get roflstomped yourself.
This would discourage all those lowbies that just want to faceroll chars 50 levels lower than them and would actually contribute to world pvp, because if you gank a lowbie now this would be like saying "here i am, bring your main and your friends i'll be waiting" then there might be some actual world pvp and not a lvl 90 going
"lololololol icelance in your face lvl 34 dude, now i'm gonna mount my swift pink assrocket and fly away so you can't gank me back with your main"

Easy fix. Make a gank have a simple "you no fly away" debuff

[Jaylock]

Okay, it seems too many people are mixing ganking with griefing. Again to OP yes Ganking is okay but getting Griefed by some flying 90 player is plain stupid. The obvious is you as low level dont stand a chance the other is now u get help or switch to your 90 the person just flies away. They are griefing low levels for a reason, they are bullies, nothing more.

Griefing is a word that is non-existant on a PvP server. Oh Jaylock, how can you say this!??? Well ill explain EXACTLY why.

When you choose and accept the rules / consequences of rolling on a PvP server, it makes those things you call "griefing" okay and acceptable based on the terms you chose to abide by.

[philefluxx]

Players have always been able to kill low level characters, this isn't something new with CRZ.

What a poor statement. If we all would think and act like this we would still sit in our cave. Without fire. Fire is change. Change is evil.

What? Pot calling the Kettle black?

[Endus]

Here's the basic gist of the complaints I've seen, and why they're bollocks;

But I keep getting ganked constantly, I can't level without 90s stomping me!
That's how PvP servers were intended to be. The post-CRZ experience is the proper experience. The false safety you experienced prior, due to a lack of population, that was the error, which is why it's getting fixed. CRZ is the solution to this, not the cause of a problem. What you're really saying here is "I don't like PvP servers". In which case, play on PvE servers.


I don't have a chance to fight back against a 90 in PvP gear!
You were NEVER promised a fair fight or a chance to fight back. This has been integral to the PvP server experience since their introduction. While a level 60 may have faced a more challenging fight against a bunch of 40s back in Vanilla, a 60 against a 20 was pretty much a one-shot, too.


I see people from other servers and that ruins the sense of community!
The other servers are set, not random. It's expanding the community, not negating it. If <Monkeypuncher> of Sargeras is ganking you in Blasted Lands, and you go get your main and head to Blasted Lands, <Monkeypuncher> will still be there, unless he ran away. And if he comes back while you're waiting, he's coming back to the same zone you're in, not a new random instance. CRZ works more be creating a single instance of a zone that multiple servers are set to connect to, not by randomly filling in gaps like the BG and LFR queues do. Does this change how the community "feels"? Sure. It's meant to. That doesn't mean it's "bad".


I can't seek vengeance on the guy who ganked me!
Sure you can. As above, CRZ maintains the same server continuity, and they've tried to ensure it's the same servers cross-realming wherever possible. Sure, he might run to a city, or Pandaria, but they've always been able to do that. The one issue I'll concede is Pandaria is not CRZed, but that's an issue of population distribution; there's no way to force max-level players into the lower-level zones, so players tend to clump in the current expansion's zones. If they CRZed everything, Pandaria would be overwhelmed. If they left it alone, the old world would be empty and barren. CRZ allows for the system to keep population levels close to the ideal everywhere.


I just want a fair, honorable fight against people of my level!
Then you want battlegrounds, and those are available on PvE servers. PvP servers are explicitly intended to allow dishonorable, unfair PvP.


But they could make a third server type that limits player levels for PvP and gives me exactly what I want!
They could also change the three mage specs to Frosting, Cinnamon, and Cupcake. That doesn't mean Dessertmages are a good or necessary idea.

[Jaylock]

Endus, all your posts I have seen you make have all been logical and thoughtful. Thank you for your post and contribution to this discussion. I agree with everything you have written in your post above.

[Deleted]

1 way they could sort it is to put a debuff say a lvl 90 attacks a lvl 60 then that 90 gets the same stats as the lvl 60 for however long

[Deleted]

When you choose and accept the rules / consequences of rolling on a PvP server, it makes those things you call "griefing" okay and acceptable based on the terms you chose to abide by.

This is actually not true. It has been discussed a lot of times already, and there have been different reactions by blizzard, one of them was that it is not ok to constantly kill a low level character for a prolonged time, because you "make it unable for that player to play" this was back in the days of longer respawn times due to dying ect. though.

@Endus: I agree with what you say. My problem with world pvp is the flying mount issue also known as "i gank all the lowbies if someone comes to fight i fly away" if that gets fixed, like i suggestet in my last post i would have no issue with world pvp as it is now

[philefluxx]

That doesn't mean Dessertmages are a good or necessary idea.

I highly disagree here....

[Endus]

1 way they could sort it is to put a debuff say a lvl 90 attacks a lvl 60 then that 90 gets the same stats as the lvl 60 for however long

The only reason to do so would be if you think ganking is "wrong" and that the unfairness is not a desirable quality.

PvP servers exist specifically and primarily to allow for ganking and griefing, with all of the unfairness inherent to that kind of gameplay. If you don't like it, that's fine. I'm not trying to claim that PvP servers are the "real" servers, or that you're wrong or somehow inferior for not liking it. But if you don't, then play on PvE servers. That's what they're for; a more structured PvP experience where you can't be forced into PvP against an overly strong opponent you have no chance of beating.

[Deleted]

One thing I'd like to say about CRZ is, it can be a lot of fun. I was on skype with my friend and we were leveling in zangarmarsh on our alt monks, and it became a right laugh trying to avoid being ganked, granted we tend to over react at stuff and make it seem alot more epic than it really is, but being chased by people constantly, sometimes meeting people our level and also the added adrenaline factor of constantly being hunted was a blast. People should give it a chance for what it is.

[Twotonsteak]

Players have always been able to kill low level characters, this isn't something new with CRZ.

PvP realms were designed right from the get-go to be a place where random acts of PvP could take place (outside of a handful of safe zones), and we have no plans to change this.

Ganking is always a threat on these realms, there have always been players who enjoy it and who go out of their way to do so. It just comes with the PvP realm

Its official, straight from the Blizzard offices themselves. More evidence that anything goes on a PvP realm. Hopefully the whiners see this, and understand.

If its red, its dead.

What do you think about this response from Blizzard?

It's the same stance they've had for as long as I can remember. That being said it speaks volumes to the character of a person who finds amusement in looking for, and killing, characters multiple levels below them. More exactly it shows a total lack of skill, obvious sad excuse for a "life," or a combination of the two.

[Thatwsntmilk]

Running around ganking and one-shotting lowbies is allowed on a PVP realm indeed but that does not make those gankers trying to regain their lost confidence by sucking at REAL PVP any less of a douche.

[Endus]

This is actually not true. It has been discussed a lot of times already, and there have been different reactions by blizzard, one of them was that it is not ok to constantly kill a low level character for a prolonged time, because you "make it unable for that player to play" this was back in the days of longer respawn times due to dying ect. though.

Ganking and camping are explicitly allowed according to the PvP rules. The only times I've heard of action being taken on those grounds were when someone was abusing a glitch to avoid repercussions (like shooting people from a rooftop where guards can't reach you, for instance), or when the camping was SO egregious it took place over days, with people working in shifts to target a specific player, where it turns more into harassment than "normal" camping/ganking.

A bunch of 90s sitting on a Horde hub and killing everything red for 3-4 hours, that's perfectly fine.


Edit: Also, as an addendum; I've always played on PvP servers. For the most part, I don't gank, unless the guy is killing stuff I'm farming or something. I play on PvP servers for the THREAT of being ganked while leveling. And I've leveled three characters from 1-90 since CRZ went in, so I'm fully aware of how it feels when leveling in the new environment. And I love it. More than I've loved leveling since Vanilla. There's a lot of people who like PvP servers and CRZ. If you don't, that's fine, but kindly stop trying to ruin it for those of us who DO like it.

[Deleted]

they just need to put in a solid way to dismount flying mounts now.

[philefluxx]

It's the same stance they've had for as long as I can remember. That being said it speaks volumes to the character of a person who finds amusement in looking for, and killing, characters multiple levels below them. More exactly it shows a total lack of skill, obvious sad excuse for a "life," or a combination of the two.

Running around ganking and one-shotting lowbies is allowed on a PVP realm indeed but that does not make those gankers trying to regain their lost confidence by sucking at REAL PVP any less of a douche.

Your tears fuel the fire. I mean really? Are we resulting to insults? It really sounds to be like your e-peen is getting hurt now that you realize PvP servers may not be for you.

[Otimus]

I'm all for making the game enjoyable for everyone. But at what cost? If you put any restriction on PvP servers, then they no longer are true PvP servers. Isnt the whole point of a PvP server is for the ganking? Isnt that really what it comes down to?

I don't want restriction, I just want meaningful world PVP, give people stuff to do out in the world that involves PVP, that's meaningful, and you'll at least dent a good portion of would-be ganking right there. Something like that doesn't even seem like it'd be hard to do, even, and I'm confused as to why Blizzard doesn't bother.

What people WRONGFULLY assume is that most people are ganking because they "suck" or "they're bad" or something. I'd be willing to bet that at least 75% of the people who do it do it for one reason: They're out in the world, and they're bored. I mean, seriously, what the hell else are you going to be doing in a low level zone? They're pretty damned boring at max level.

[Thetruth1400]

Players have always been able to kill low level characters, this isn't something new with CRZ.

PvP realms were designed right from the get-go to be a place where random acts of PvP could take place (outside of a handful of safe zones), and we have no plans to change this.

Ganking is always a threat on these realms, there have always been players who enjoy it and who go out of their way to do so. It just comes with the PvP realm

Its official, straight from the Blizzard offices themselves. More evidence that anything goes on a PvP realm. Hopefully the whiners see this, and understand.

If its red, its dead.

What do you think about this response from Blizzard?

To me, it screams, "We at Blizzard like to gank, therefore it stays." Yes, I understand that it's a PvP server and PvP happens, but mercilessly camping someone that stands no chance isn't PvP, it's harassment. The Vanilla system was infinitely better for preventing this, because camping someone that didn't stand a chance resulted in negative effects happening to you. Reinstate a system like that and we'll see who really likes to gank and doesn't care about their points, score, whatever vs those that do it because they can. With the over inflation that's in this game now, even 5 levels can make a fight 100% in favor of one size vs the other.