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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Yea right... I really have to restrain myself, not to get insulting in my answers when I read comments like these.

    We NEED fresh blood, because people leave wow all the time for whatever reasons. But the indifferent masses just look after "path of least resistance". THEY DON'T DO 10MAN BECAUSE THEY LIKE IT. They do it because it's easy to find and maintain. They would do 25 just as indifferently if it was the path of least resistance like it was in Wrath.

    Why?



    And it's THESE guys Blizzard has to encourage to consider 25man. Not the few that actually raid 10m because they love it.
    Again I am in a guild with 27 normal raiders and not one of us enjoys 25 mans. Even though out of the 27 that normally raid, 27 of us are all competent, know our roles and would not have to worry about each other messing up if we were in 25s. The only time we do run 25s, is when we have Heroics on farm and we have some of the alternates who might be lagging behind with gear. Not once after any of those 25 man runs had anyone ever said we should run 25s as a guild.

    We run 10s because we love running 10s.

  2. #222
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    Yea right... I really have to restrain myself, not to get insulting in my answers when I read comments like these.

    We NEED fresh blood, because people leave wow all the time for whatever reasons. But the indifferent masses just look after "path of least resistance". THEY DON'T DO 10MAN BECAUSE THEY LIKE IT. They do it because it's easy to find and maintain. They would do 25 just as indifferently if it was the path of least resistance like it was in Wrath.

    Why?

    And it's THESE guys Blizzard has to encourage to consider 25man. Not the few that actually raid 10m because they love it.
    go for it, i wouldnt care less. it would just prove another of my opinions on the vast majority of the wow community these days and certainly alot of 25man guilds and i guess some 10man to be fair

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Holyshnikies View Post
    I have a core I5, 8 gigs ram, 660 ti video card, 2x ssd hard drives. With that said. I still wont raid 25 man lag fests. Its bad enough doing Sha with 10 fps. In 10 mans, i hover around 30. Thats sad. And I can only imagine other peoples computers having to deal with 25 man and world bosses.

    25 man raiding is dead and will stay dead. Hmm lets see. Do I want to depend on 15 other people, make things more difficult for the same rewards. Or do it with 10 people where I wont lag as heavily, have less stress and easier management including pugging. Yeah, Ill stick with 10 man raiding forever lol.
    My setup is worse than yours, and the only time I ever dip below 30 fps is on Sha, then it's still fully playable.
    empty up some space on your ssd, get some new drivers, stop getting viruses, and get a proper screen.
    I've no idea what to write here.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Radalek View Post
    They want to raid 25 but they can't find time to put all the effort needed to make one, it's just too much. So they are forced to stay in their 10 man guilds.
    did you truly thought about what you wrote? did you even read it? if there wouldn't be 10man they would not raid anyway.
    so no 10man raid is forcing you to play in a 10 man guild. it is the player itself or his time he spends for wow. and enhancing loot for 25man or killing 10man guilds will not change this. as they can't find time to put all the effort needed to make one is the problem.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Outofmana View Post
    Because you cannot call 10man real raiding, it's a ridiculous format coming close to 5man heroic runs. People that like 10man are people who don't dislike 25man, they dislike raiding in general. They probably detested 40man in vanilla but kept doing dungeons all day finding those so much fun, 10man for them is perfect, but it's not raiding.
    dude not only did this make no sense it was backwards, especially considering 10mans are more challenging than 25mans. its so obvious that im actually puzzled, cant tell if just stupid or being sarcastic or trolling...

  6. #226
    Splitting achievements is a huge step and locking them out to the opposite achievement if they already have the other is a huge step if they could do it.

    Otherwise, the step they took is fine. You are awarded with a higher % drop chance of a Thunderforged item if you are in a 25 man group. Everyone can get it, they just get them more often. Seems fair. I'm sure you all will still whine, but whatever. Tired of your played out opinion. This game isn't a democracy and you don't have a voice. Stop playing or close your trap.
    Last edited by tehdef; 2013-01-24 at 01:29 PM.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebria View Post
    did you truly thought about what you wrote? did you even read it? if there wouldn't be 10man they would not raid anyway.
    so no 10man raid is forcing you to play in a 10 man guild. it is the player itself or his time he spends for wow. and enhancing loot for 25man or killing 10man guilds will not change this. as they can't find time to put all the effort needed to make one is the problem.
    Do you read what you wrote and think it through? This will kill 10 man raiding, are you serious? You're aware there were many 10 mans in Wrath where 25 man had higher ilvl and lockout was separate? What forces them into 10 man is the fact there's no 25 man guilds they can join unless they find some on another realm and they are forced to pay for it and leave friends, alts and their old server behind. Not many people are ready for that so they are forced to do 10 man if they want to raid.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Radalek View Post
    Do you read what you wrote and think it through? This will kill 10 man raiding, are you serious? You're aware there were many 10 mans in Wrath where 25 man had higher ilvl and lockout was separate? What forces them into 10 man is the fact there's no 25 man guilds they can join unless they find some on another realm and they are forced to pay for it and leave friends, alts and their old server behind. Not many people are ready for that so they are forced to do 10 man if they want to raid.
    I'm pretty sure you're the one with the comprehension problem. He never said, not one time, even a hint of "this will kill 10 man raiding". Not even the slightest hint of that.

  9. #229
    Herald of the Titans velde046's Avatar
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    Titles? Fine... Give different titles to 10m and 25m.
    Any other loot? I still think it's not the way to go. As they expressed themselves it's mostly the logistical 'nightmare' that is the cause for dwindling 25's. So just give a reward to the raidleader.

    In my perception, yet another token system could make it interesting... for example:
    - On 25 every boss drops a Raidleader token (these are automatically awarded to the primary raidleader if there's no Master Looter)
    - The tokens can be traded with other raid members for 2 hours (and eligible for it)
    - Have a vendor where you can turn in these tokens to buy stuff like mounts, tabards or whatever vanity stuff.

    This way the raidleader gets a reward for putting in the effort of raidleading and he can share this with whomever he wishes at the time or keep them for himself. This way the rewarding system is actually rewarding the person making the extra effort...

    This could also help getting people to keep farming the content if the raidleader decides to share the stuff and a new person is appointed to get the next batch of tokens from kills. By making it an exclusive vendor, you would also get more people returning to the raid after future expansions, to get the tokens for the mounts/pets.
    Last edited by velde046; 2013-01-24 at 01:35 PM.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    I'm sorry, you mean: They have to force them to do 25's.
    exactly. because being "part of it" or "epic raid feeling" (lol on this) seems not to be enough to join a 25man guild nowadays. and adding achievements or pets, mounts wouldn't be as attractive like swinging the loot carrot. and you know what. it will be successful. but the 25man guilds will die anyway. and I hope blizzard find a better solution next x-pack. tired of all this elite nonsense and we are better as you as it is harder blabla
    Last edited by Nebria; 2013-01-24 at 01:55 PM. Reason: typo

  11. #231
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Radalek View Post
    If they can't organize a group, they won't kill anything will they? All in all they have no choice really.
    That is a meta game issue that Blizzard has nothing to do with.
    How can Blizzard provide you with more skilled players that also sync well with one another? There is no way.

    Blizzard incentive => Force to play a certain way.
    Logistics problems => That's life really.

  12. #232
    Herald of the Titans velde046's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdef View Post
    Splitting achievements is a huge step and locking them out to the opposite achievement if they already have the other is a huge step if they could do it.

    Otherwise, the step they took is fine. You are awarded with a higher % drop chance of a Thunderforged item if you are in a 25 man group. Everyone can get it, they just get them more often. Seems fair.
    Seems fair but it isn't, because still the 23-24 people in the group that don't have to put in extra effort are rewarded....

  13. #233
    i wonder how many of the 25m supporters who get all riled up and start talking smack are the ones who are scared to have the spotlight on them in a 10m group. just like dozens have said before me.. if you fuck up in 25m people might not even notice. if you fuck up in a 10m however, you get called out instantly and EVERYONE knows who causes the wipes and doesnt carry their weight.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Holyshnikies View Post
    I have a core I5, 8 gigs ram, 660 ti video card, 2x ssd hard drives. With that said. I still wont raid 25 man lag fests. Its bad enough doing Sha with 10 fps. In 10 mans, i hover around 30. Thats sad. And I can only imagine other peoples computers having to deal with 25 man and world bosses.
    Something must be really wrong with your system. I use some acer computer that i bought 4 years ago. I got 4 gig RAM, a graphic card with 128 MB shared memory as it is a oboard graphic card. No SSD drives and nothing else which is special. I didnt build the computer i bought it completeley ready in a big electronics market. I Use a 27" Monitor on Full HD 1980.
    So my computer is expected to be performing way worse than yours.

    Even tho i can feel a difference between a 10 man raid and a 25 man raid performancewise (mainly FPS issues), it still happens to be playable over 20 FPS even Galleon with a full 40 man raid and a full 40 man horde raid attacking us meanwhile.

    And i am in no way a computer specialist only thing i do is i avoid updates for programs and drivers until the desired functionality is broken. Tho i dont really think that this is what saves me...

    you leave me clueless. Man i didnt even once defragment my 4 years old computer and i am installing and deleting a LOT.

  15. #235
    Dreadlord Synbaby's Avatar
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    I don't see this change as being more incentive to run 25 mans at this point. The "new-ness" of this xpac has worn off a bit now, and I've started to see a bit of decline in players on my server. Of course, with a new patch coming, some people will come back, but I know alot of people who won't come back because of the dailies/rep grind that are being added.

    Also, it is much easier putting a 10 man group together as opposed to a 25 man group. I think the slightly higher chance of getting thunderforged items isn't going to encourage people back to 25s at all.

    If blizzard was trully worried about the disparity between 10s and 25s, they never would've made the raid change back in WOTLK(having lower ilvl in 10s opposed to 25s).
    What doesn't kill you, only makes you stranger

  16. #236
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by prwraith View Post
    It boggles my mind that anyone can hate 25 man.


    That IS raiding. Large groups of people banding together to complete encounters. 10 mans, are like barely even group content.

    The fact of the matter is, regardless of wether or not 25mans are harder (and I believe they are) The logistical hurdles required to field larger raids make them deserving of better loot to begin with.

    I hate 10 mans, I find them tediously slow and not very exciting. But first, we lose our dual lockout so we can't do both every week, then we lose the gear ilvl's. And THEN we lost gear drop rate on tokens in 25m. And I'd still rather do 25m, because it's far more epic.

    And the whole 25m is to many pixels and lags my computer. Give me a break, swallow your pride and lower your settings. It's unbelievably easy to run wow on ultra these days, and spend almost nothing to do it.
    Well i'm happy that your guild is one of the few that didn't have a mass exodus of the less skilled portion of the raid team so they could join 10 man guilds because they thought it was easier.

    I loved 25 man raiding from TBC all the way to near the end of Tier 11 (Al'akir was the boss that caused the exodus of the lesser players and so forced us into 10 man raiding). Unfortunately is quite impossible for us to switch back to 25 man now, trying to recruit ~20 more players (to cover attendance) and not lose any in the process is a pretty monumental task...

  17. #237
    As a 10 man raider, I think the Thunderforged idea is a nice one and doesn't affect me. I don't really care that 25 man raiders can equip faster than me and, overall, reach a higher ilvl than me. And from the comments I have seen, that seems to be the general consensus from 10 man raiders (even though there are indeed some jerks like OMG THE SKY IS FALLING! 10 MAN IZZ DEADDD).

    But I am NOT okay with 25 man having exclusive rewards, or having better loot I can't acquire. Not okay at all.

    I don't want to be the underdog like the times of WOLK. Not to say that the encounters HAVE to be easier, by a long shot, because they have to assume you won't have access to 25 man gear. And don't give me the crap "25 is already harder than 10 man", it is not. It is on a fight-to-fight basis... Currently some are harder on 10, some on 25, some are nearly even.

    I do think the Thunderforged idea has potential and I expect to see some more 25 man guilds come in 5.2. I will keep close to the tests and see how it goes.

  18. #238
    - Exclusive mounts. *Not* reskins! Completely unique models designed specifically for this purpose. er..no? then give 10m oh wait..25m's uses 10m for farm so no.

    - Exclusive Tabards. as long as they add exclusive tabards for 10m(because not everyone CAN play 25m raiding mind you)

    - Exclusive Titles. ^

    - Exclusive armor/weapon models. It can have the exact same ilvl and stats, but if it makes you look amazingly cool, it's highly desirable. Again, NOT recolor/reskins! Completely unique models. why..??


    - Exclusive transmog gear. Same as above. fine what ever

    - Exclusive companion pets. NO. there is no reason.

    - Exclusive heirloom pieces. This may be cried about as "game breaking" for low level BGers who do not 25 man raid, but it's just an example.as you said people will cry, but hell no.

    - Anything that reduces the load of managing a 25man roster, such as flasks, foods, group teleporters, etc. and..10man rosters don't suffer as much? hell no, in my guild we are are 2 to three people at the raid instance when we are supposedly to be inside and kitted out with flask and food. yes I understand you need to summon more people, so? and for flasks, foods everyone should add to the pile them selfs, this is not a 25m roster problem at all, it's a problem of all raid types(minus LFR)

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Radalek View Post
    Do you read what you wrote and think it through? This will kill 10 man raiding, are you serious? You're aware there were many 10 mans in Wrath where 25 man had higher ilvl and lockout was separate? What forces them into 10 man is the fact there's no 25 man guilds they can join unless they find some on another realm and they are forced to pay for it and leave friends, alts and their old server behind. Not many people are ready for that so they are forced to do 10 man if they want to raid.
    I did not said they will kill 10 man. I said even killing 10man completely wouldn't change this (nobody is doing this). if you don't have time you don't have the time. end of story.
    This week one of the top 5 10man guild left our server. Do you know why? I would say they couldn't find new players for them that played at the level they were looking for. So you see not only 25man guilds have problems. 10 mans too.
    Real issue is empty servers, expensive transfer costs (you have a main and 2-3 alts usually and some friends can't pay it) and an overhead of managing 25man guilds so you need a good staff or the guild will break up.

  20. #240
    LOL @ all those people claiming doing 25s for "that epic feeling and not for the loot"

    Ok, IF it's not for the loot you can get the EPIC feling of doing 40s in BWL and AQ40, pity NAXX40 is no longer available.

    LOL just LOL


    Understand this once and for all: 25s are socially and logistically difficult to realize. 10s are better, they are faster, lighter as impact on daytime availability, and the majority of the players cannot afford to spend so much life into a game to gather 25 ppl each time there is a raid, and having 2 different type of raids (10 an 25) only help in splitting the playerbase.

    10s are the future, at least for instanced, daily or weekly content.

    More massively groups in numbers (25s, 40s, etc ) are only good for open world non-grindable content, especially if they involve PvP/RvR/WvW in a meaningful way (i.e. EVE) but in WoW this is noway implemented.
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler (Source)
    If you are trying to AE tank and a bad dps is attacking the wrong target and dies, we call that justice.

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