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  1. #1201
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by jax View Post
    Lol, funny how I and many others have tried over and over to explain this (theres a 15 page post about this in hunters area and if you google "Sha Touched Weapon" there are hundreds of posts about this lack of drops) yet Lolofail still maintains his experience is the only true and factual one and all the rest of us are liars...



    Yeah I tried to explain this same point but as you see, his view is the only one thats true, well...according to him.



    So here you finally admit you have no idea what your talking about and clearly havent for the entire discussion! In fact your using someone else's words to argue your points as factual without checking to see if that person even has a clue... strong basis for your premise there genius...
    /facepalm



    Classic WoW forums backpedal and two step... Its not your job? So because you cant refute him, you claim you dont have to... pure genius, are you possibly a politician? If not, you have all the makings of one!

    Its not his job to "prove" anything, its his and mine and others "opinions" that your experience does not match many peoples, yet you continue to argue that our experience is "statistically flawed and impossible" yet your using faulty data and letting that ignorance be colored by your own false perceptions to "prove" yours.
    Talk about ass backward thinking...



    Yet again another complete and total mistake... ok n/m... Ill call a spade a spade, your a flat out liar. Here is my "original premise" quoted from page 32:



    I then several posts over after you argued that guilds dont need to run LFR to get gear, used my self as an example: 8/16 HM and still sitting with a 476 bow as an example of one person in a upper end guild that still needs to run LFR.
    You have taken those facts and called me a liar, called others liars, and then fell back into "i dont have to disprove it, you have to prove it" yawnfest posts.



    Why? The premise is that "upper end guilds" had to run and will continue to have to... no one said anything about top 100 or even 500.
    Since I am the one that orginally said "upper end" then I would think it relates to what I feel "upper end" is and not what you want it to be.

    That has been your problem from sentence number one, you took what I said and changed it around to fit your criteria then you said I was wrong because my premise didnt meet your altered narrow standards.
    You then also called me a liar and said I was begging for pity...

    Some people would call that narcissism... I consider it megalomania with a healthy dose of ignorance mixed in.
    Well jax, anyone who searches for keyword "liar" in this thread will not find I called you a liar. It is you who keeps using this strong language. It is you who used the word liar; not me. I never called you a liar: I said your situation is either a fluke or made up (ie. hypothetical example). I said you were begging for pity and QQing, yes, but I did not call you a liar. I also wasn't the one who made drama about gender: you decided to use such strong words in some strange and twisted way blowing it way out of proportion. In the post above we can all read and will notice it is you who resorts to name calling such as "Lolofail", and also in your post here you call me a liar. I don't have to resort to name calling; my posts stand on their own, but I see you have to give your arguments extra horsepower by using strong words. Anyone can notice the difference between "lie" or "lies" and "liar"; one is deliberate and specific about one or more subjects, the other one is structural.

    In this post here you didn't refute my 10% drop chance assumption (based on someone else's) and numbers. You never questioned it there which implies you find it low. Now you suddenly do and make a big deal out of it, and furthermore you make drama on a 10% statistical fluke. Furthermore, you don't wanna hear or quote that, but the chance is still a lot less than that 10% statistical fluke because of the 4 other factors I given in a recent previous post (LFR, charms N/H, charms LFR, will H).

    And now you suddenly start about hundreds of posts in some hunter thread. Ever heard of echo chamber effect? Hundreds of posts doesn't mean a thing. There could be tens of thousands of posts, it doesn't make the argument true. It is still your job to prove your argument, the only evidence you presented in that post was anecdotal. I don't buy your anecdotal evidence. It is meaningless. Which is why I tell you the burden of proof for statistical evidence lies in your hands.

    About this vague feeling of yours regarding upper end. If you call a 8/16 HC guild upper end... hilarious. That's the mid tier for me. I suppose they got will H on farm though. Your "upper end" goes as far as top 4000!! In your viewpoint WoW is certainly full with princes and princesses but the top 4000 doesn't raid hardcore. Some raid heroic, but not hardcore. Yet you call it upper end? Yeah it is relevant, but if you feel the upper end would be anyone who killed Stone Guards HC on a snowy sunday then you'd still be right because that is how you feel about it. Good for you, you can have a medal for it, but it just doesn't fly for the reader. Ofc in a sample size as big as yours (apparently at least 4000 guilds) you'll find more of those statistical flukes but they still are just that no matter how high or low you decide to jump or how much name calling you want to resort to.

    I also gave, later on, specific examples of why the farming in ICC was for a much larger relevant group (anyone but the hardcore raider) worse than LFR due to shared loot (especially trinkets and tier tokens). But I never disagreed with your conclusion; I disagree with your premise.

  2. #1202
    Deleted
    I am with jax on this one. And i know from experience that once you get into the process to explain and prove something and then somebody is backpedaling or just makes statements while before he was attempting to make arguments that where proven wrong one after another, is annoying.
    I took the liberty to interfere since your little quarell is off topic anyway.

    Take EJL for instance talking about LFR right above.
    Someone states that "LFR doesnt prepare you to raid".
    And he goes on to make his correction.

    That's wrong. What you want to say is "It doesn't prepare you for Normal/Heroic scale difficulties". Whether that argument is accurate or not would be debateable.
    In order to defend LFR as "raiding", while the person he quoted is obviously concerned about changes that make raiding "as oposed to loot pinnatas" is in crisis due to the current raid model plus LFR.

    In other word who gives a ratts a$$ if LFR is raiding, it wasnt even under discussion, but no, EJL had to pop in and defend LFR as being "one difficulty of raiding"!

    This converstation starts looking like a truck carrying sand uncovered in a windy day.
    The sand wont make it to its destination and the truck will just mess up everything on its way there.
    Last edited by mmoc4cbbce03d2; 2013-02-12 at 08:52 AM.

  3. #1203
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archidamos View Post
    In other word who gives a ratts a$$ if LFR is raiding
    Everyone who tries to deny it is raiding, simply to make the argument that "raiding has declined since Vanilla/TBC/LK/whatever" look good and accurate. That's who cares.

    EJL

  4. #1204
    Outside looking in on that little discussion finds these two hilarious statements by you lolololo:

    Well jax, anyone who searches for keyword "liar" in this thread will not find I called you a liar.
    Yet a few pages back you said this:

    Again, I'm ignoring LFR here. Which leads us to the conclusion and undeniable fact your situation is either a lie or a rare and a statistical fluke which is just as irrelevant as your entire rant.
    Now I may not be a linguist or even a college educated adult but that sure looks like you called him a liar to me.
    Maybe you should just stop lolol? You seem to be digging a deeper and deeper grave with every untruth you post.

    I am with jax on this one.
    As most people here with even 1/2 of a brain are, reading lolol's posts remind me of watching Tom and Jerry cartoons as a 5 year old.

    or just makes statements while before he was attempting to make arguments that where proven wrong one after another, is annoying.

    Are we perhaps brothers sir? This is exactly what I saw and how I feel. It is rampant in lololo's posts on this thread alone and one of the biggest hinderances of decent forum activity here and on the WoW forums.

    /just my 2 cents

  5. #1205
    Deleted
    Welcome to the discussion, 5-post sockpuppet. I never called jax a liar. Nowhere. When I called the lack of the weapon drop either a statistical fluke or a lie I called it made up various times. I used stronger language there than "made up", yes, but jax said I called him a liar long before that, various times. I wouldn't call someone who lied one time a liar either. Jax tries to put words in my mouth and draw silly conclusions from that, just like he or she did with that gender crap. I'll just ignore the other ad hominem and other fallacies given they're part of a sockpuppet's job. I mean, the level you're at you don't even have the common courtesy to spell someone's name correct.

  6. #1206
    Deleted
    Wall of Text, About what RAIDING? Not interested mate, Raiding is for 11 year olds.

  7. #1207
    Well jax, anyone who searches for keyword "liar" in this thread will not find I called you a liar.
    I was going to quote what the above poster did but he beat me to it... pretty clear to me what you are.
    I also wasn't the one who made drama about gender: you decided to use such strong words in some strange and twisted way blowing it way out of proportion.
    Im not sure but you saying this:
    Oh look, one of those females who has to make a point about their gender (which could've been a MK reference) nobody gives a shit about your implied gender, jax, you're just abusing it in your argument.
    Then this:
    At worst I was offending a specific behavior of some women.
    Sure seems like your not too fond of woman and their behavior to me?
    In the post above we can all read and will notice it is you who resorts to name calling such as "Lolofail"
    If the shoe fits...
    and also in your post here you call me a liar.
    Because you have lied and backpedaled and twisted every single thing I have said to try and get it to fit your world view, I just read over many of your other posts where your arguing with others on this thread about seperate issues and you are doing the same thing when they call you out... If your offended by being called a liar, perhaps you should stop lying?
    my posts stand on their own
    ,
    They actually fail on their own, as evidenced for anyone reading them for more than 2 minutes.
    In this post here you didn't refute my 10% drop chance assumption (based on someone else's) and numbers.
    What was that arguement you used last page? Something about how I dont have to disprove your premise, you have to prove it? Ya I think I will use your argument there and say: Its not my job to correct your failed % drop chance... its yours to KNOW what your talking about or zip the lip.
    Now you suddenly do and make a big deal out of it,
    Pointing out that you used someone else's words to preach to us for 20 pages about something you had no clue about is making a big deal?
    I just thought it was funny as hell that your clueless and admitted you were clueless and tried to continue your argument... From what I see many others find your continued backpedaling and blaming of others for your failures at debate priceless... please continue, I know you will and we will all have more laughs at your expense.
    And now you suddenly start about hundreds of posts in some hunter thread. Ever heard of echo chamber effect?
    Clearly they are all lying too is that what I am hearing? LOL man you just wont stop will you. Just stop posting about this, your backpedaling and shifting blame to now that everyone is just echoing the fact that the drop rate is only 3.75% and the majority of people have never seen it...
    Hundreds of posts doesn't mean a thing. There could be tens of thousands of posts, it doesn't make the argument true.
    Of course it doenst mean anything, Jesus Christ himself could come down and tell you its true and in your deluded self indulged world you would still be able to make yourself believe it isnt true... thats called Narcisim
    It is still your job to prove your argument, the only evidence you presented in that post was anecdotal. I don't buy your anecdotal evidence. It is meaningless. Which is why I tell you the burden of proof for statistical evidence lies in your hands.
    I had no idea I was in court today? When and where is the rule that says I have to "prove" anything to you? Or to anyone else? I am stating an opinion, as many others are here.
    I nor we have to prove anything to you, I am relating my experience in game, just because it does not match yours doesnt make it any less true. Just because yours doesnt match mine doesnt make it any less true... Try and understand that your entire argument is based on telling me my personal experience in game is a lie because your personal experience doesnt match it...

    Again: Narcisim... look it up, and please get some help before its too late.
    About this vague feeling of yours regarding upper end. If you call a 8/16 HC guild upper end... hilarious. That's the mid tier for me
    .
    Gratz? Yet your progression is 6/16 from your own words...
    Your "upper end" goes as far as top 4000!!
    Tks for defining what I think! I was soooooo lost on what my view was! /boggle
    In your viewpoint WoW is certainly full with princes and princesses
    Thank you yet again for telling me what I think! You are a champion of men and Gods and we all bow to your abilities with ESP!
    but the top 4000 doesn't raid hardcore. Some raid heroic, but not hardcore.
    Yet again, you choose to use a word I never have and try and make what I said untrue... hardcore is YOUR word not mine.
    Yeah it is relevant, but if you feel the upper end would be anyone who killed Stone Guards HC on a snowy sunday then you'd still be right because that is how you feel about it. Good for you, you can have a medal for it, but it just doesn't fly for the reader.
    So because you dont think its relevant, its not... yet another textbook example of your narcisim run wild... you even added in some well thought out condesending remarks to make your self look better AND tried to bring in the other readers for support of your ego... I think thats called the Trifecta of Megalomania in the brain industry.
    But I never disagreed with your conclusion; I disagree with your premise.
    You have show over and over you have no idea what my premise actually is, you still think its about a flipping gun.
    My Premise is that nothing has changed from ICC days where upperend guilds ran 25/10 because we now run 25 or 10s and LFR.
    My Conclusion is that they will have to continue to do so because they need to supplement gear to min/max.
    My Example was that I and many others are still running LFR for 1 or 2 specific pieces, in my case the gun.

    Can you understand this finally? You do know that a Premise/Conclusion/Example are all different things and all you have been arguing is about the damn gun EXAMPLE I used... and might I say, failed miserably at it due to you not having any facts to back you up and in fact using faulty data to make your arguement...

  8. #1208
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Welcome to the discussion, 5-post sockpuppet. I never called jax a liar. Nowhere. When I called the lack of the weapon drop either a statistical fluke or a lie I called it made up various times. I used stronger language there than "made up", yes, but jax said I called him a liar long before that, various times. I wouldn't call someone who lied one time a liar either. Jax tries to put words in my mouth and draw silly conclusions from that, just like he or she did with that gender crap. I'll just ignore the other ad hominem and other fallacies given they're part of a sockpuppet's job. I mean, the level you're at you don't even have the common courtesy to spell someone's name correct.
    Thank you for the welcome sir, I did notice however that while you are complaining about Jax calling you names, you felt it in your best interest to call me names in your first sentence. Stay classy bro!
    So now your arguement is that Jax said you called him liar before you actually callled him a liar? Is that what Im reading? WOW there really is no end to your psychosis is there?
    I am not sure about the whole "Jax puts words in my mouth" because it sure looked like
    your situation is either a lie
    are your words and not something anyone "put in your mouth"
    I must admit that we are all drawing some "silly conclusions" from what you said, one of them being that your lying about calling him a liar and now are trying to make it his fault by saying he put those words into your mouth when they are clearly quoted from yours?
    Look! awesome! You put me down just like you have so many others in your posts, I really cant wait for you to somehow blame me for not having 1000 posts so my opinion means nothing, oh wait, you already did!

    You sir are a very entertaining person to read and try to fathom how you come up with your conclusions or should I say delusions?

    /moar popcorn!

  9. #1209
    Sorry to post again so soon but I just re-read your statement below and my eyes opened up...

    In this post here you didn't refute my 10% drop chance assumption (based on someone else's) and numbers.
    So your blaming me that I didnt correct you for being wrong on the entire basis of your argument? Its my personal fault that you have argued for pages and pages and pages using a false percentage?

    You sir take the cake the icing and the ice cream...
    Ill bow out of this now, you clearly are the winner and champion!

  10. #1210
    Deleted
    No people choose 10 man because it is more efficient. Crab guy said so and he is the lead dev so lets just believe him.

    10 man was more than viable in wrath it wasn't a format for cutting edge, but was it necessary to take away th 10man format from more casual players or lesser skilled players only to satisfiy the need of a few 10 man raiders who didn't feel elite enough for running 10man purily.

    the only thing the new raiding model accomplished was wrecking a lot of guilds.

  11. #1211
    Players were happy to organise and run 40-man raids when that was the only format available.
    So the organisational requirements for 25-man with far better tools are not that unrealistic, in fact I would argue trivial in comparison.
    Players have become lazy and given a choice will opt for the easier route, but come up with any excuse other than laziness to justify their choice.
    25-man content is not outright any harder than 10-man, because it swings both ways depending on the encounter.
    Less rigid role and class restrictions exist in 25-man content, so there should be a real choice because difficulty they arent that far apart.

    The organisation is no more difficult when the formats were not equal loot, and that is the only thing which changed.

  12. #1212
    Quote Originally Posted by ComputerNerd View Post
    Players were happy to organise and run 40-man raids when that was the only format available.

    [snip]
    Well, not the majority did. It was seeing the success of ZG/AQ20 that helped push things towards 10/25 man.

  13. #1213
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    Well, not the majority did. It was seeing the success of ZG/AQ20 that helped push things towards 10/25 man.
    I wish the success of AQ20 & ZG20 would push things towards 20 man...Single size.

  14. #1214
    Deleted
    With 5.2 on the near horizon. I started wondering about the claim made by lola in this thread that heroic raiders wouldn't have to do LFR in 5.2 for upgrades.
    Out of mere curiosity how many raiding teams only consists of raiders in complete BiS gear from this tier.

    Personally i think for like 95% of the normal/heroic raiding guilds you will have to run LFR in 5.2 no matter what. I could have said 100% because all guilds want tier tokens and bonuses I would assume but well settled for only 95%.

  15. #1215
    Quote Originally Posted by Dax75 View Post
    With 5.2 on the near horizon. I started wondering about the claim made by lola in this thread that heroic raiders wouldn't have to do LFR in 5.2 for upgrades.
    Out of mere curiosity how many raiding teams only consists of raiders in complete BiS gear from this tier.

    Personally i think for like 95% of the normal/heroic raiding guilds you will have to run LFR in 5.2 no matter what. I could have said 100% because all guilds want tier tokens and bonuses I would assume but well settled for only 95%.
    The problem I see here is not just heroic raiders doing content that is not meant for them, but also they will be clearing all content on day 1 of the patch (LFR or normal) and then they will REPEAT the exact same content for several months for normal and heroic kills. Repetition breeds boredom.

    If heroic raiders could only do heroics, then it would take them couple weeks to down the first boss. Once they get past the first boss, the would have start making attempts on the second boss. This is equivalent to getting new content, one boss at a time, every couple weeks. It used to be this way and kept progression content fresh.

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