I cry at night over talent tree absense

[Mormolyce]

Vanilla specs were the best. That's when there was true versatility, and class balance didn't need to go under a microscope.

Vanilla talents were utter utter garbage by modern standards. If they brought them back you would barf in hatred.

[JhanZ]

See that't the thing that makes the new system way better than the old. For those of us who weren't derping and looked the stuff up or figured it out on our own we now have less BS talents to worry about and we can actually make choices that matter. The derps who put points in whatever they wanted to with no concern for output well, it's less for them to mess up I suppose.

Except those "derps" as you put it, comprise the majority of the game and elitist like you really should be absolutely irrelevant from a design standpoint. There's too much catering to people who want to theorycraft their way through everything. It's a video game and it's idiotic.

But of course preaching this here is a mistake because most people here are elitist, anyway.

[Flaks]

See that't the thing that makes the new system way better than the old. For those of us who weren't derping and looked the stuff up or figured it out on our own we now have less BS talents to worry about and we can actually make choices that matter. The derps who put points in whatever they wanted to with no concern for output well, it's less for them to mess up I suppose.

Which is an all around terrible change.

The old talent system was interesting enough that you could spend hours deciding on what talent tree might work best for you. You'd realize that maybe you were having trouble generating rage, or maybe a bit more hit chance from talents instead of gear might be great help or maybe you might be able to weave slams into your rotation or more heroic strike queues that you could reduce the rage cost for.

The old system allowed you to modify your gameplay like this new one never can. Everyone loves new abilities but when that's all the new talent tree is with nothing but situational decisions that can be made for it then you know they've utterly failed at their design goal. Hell, I'd go so far as to say these new talents are a step back from the wotlk/tbc model.

[zeropeorth]

I miss my Disc-Flay spec on my priest. Reflective bubble with Mind Flay and random Blackout procs? Good times.

Some people would never experiment, because of a simmed theoretical 1% increase, even though they aren't in a top 500/1000 guild.

Bandwagons aplenty, and this is one.

Affliction had no real choice. 1 point. But, in cata alone, they eliminated hybrid specs that other classes/specs could use for fun.

The old tree wasn't perfect, but it had its merits. A little love and tenderness, and it could've provided the same utility and options this new system gives, but burying most of the utility in the second or third tier.


But, if you really like the old tree system, Rift does it well. Lots of choices and viable options. SWtOR also has the trees. WoW isn't the only game out there. No need to hate on these games, if you love WoW, continue to love it, without having to spit on things you don't prefer.

[Kaleredar]

Oh yeah, I loved the old talent trees.

I could just look up my spec online and not have to worry about a thing.

But these new ones... making me choose talents to fit situations... making me think about which skills will bring more utility... it's just too much.

[Mormolyce]

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone looked up talent trees online.

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone who looked up talent trees online had the exact same talents.

You could awkwardly shift around a handful of marginal talent points in some specs (some you couldn't move a single point - I remember in Cata I couldn't take Silence on my Shad Priest without losing DPS -_-). Any many of those talent variations were almost meaningless in gameplay terms.

People who say the old talent trees had versatility have the memory of a pregnant goldfish.

[vindicatorx]

Except those "derps" as you put it, comprise the majority of the game and elitist like you really should be absolutely irrelevant from a design standpoint. There's too much catering to people who want to theorycraft their way through everything. It's a video game and it's idiotic.

But of course preaching this here is a mistake because most people here are elitist, anyway.

I don't raid, don't competitively pvp, and play less than 5 hours a week. I just try and have a little pride and do things the best I can. I know it's rough spending a whole 3 seconds to google a proper talent selection read the + and - of why the top end people use it compared to others. I am such an elitist for not wanting to half ass my in game experience and look like a jackass right? Like I sad though the new talent trees allow for everyone to get more abilities and make choices that aren't going to make or break you.

[Mormolyce]

The old system allowed you to modify your gameplay like this new one never can.

Yeah because 1% more crit on an ability is way more compelling gameplay than choosing between 3 survivability CDs, or CC, or even rotational DPS abilities.

It really didn't take long for those nostalgia glasses to go on.

[vindicatorx]

The old talent system was interesting enough that you could spend hours deciding on what talent tree might work best for you. You'd realize that maybe you were having trouble generating rage, or maybe a bit more hit chance from talents instead of gear might be great help or maybe you might be able to weave slams into your rotation or more heroic strike queues that you could reduce the rage cost for.

The old system allowed you to modify your gameplay like this new one never can. Everyone loves new abilities but when that's all the new talent tree is with nothing but situational decisions that can be made for it then you know they've utterly failed at their design goal. Hell, I'd go so far as to say these new talents are a step back from the wotlk/tbc model.

Sorry I disagree. Sure you could move a few points around here and there but other than that you were severely hurting your performance. I remember before the whole 31 in a spec thing was required seeing people with talents evenly spread in all three trees or all the talents in one tree who played like shit. You guys can be nostalgic all you want thinking you had massive amounts of control but you are only fooling yourselves.

[Deleted]

There weren't more talents that actually 'did things' (not +X% of something) and quite frankly I don't see how having the 'option' to get +5% crit is exciting. For most specs there were less talents possible to move around without having a sub-optimal performance than in the current trees. Being 'casual' or 'having fun' isn't synonymous with stupidity, the old talent trees weren't complicated (even if you didn't look them up), and if you found them complicated I think you're better off now.

[Flaks]

Yeah because 1% more crit on an ability is way more compelling gameplay than choosing between 3 survivability CDs, or CC, or even rotational DPS abilities.

It really didn't take long for those nostalgia glasses to go on.

Maybe you should read the examples that flat out prove you wrong in the quoted post before you make such a silly claim.

Anyways, when push came to shove, those "3 different survivability or cc or rotational" abilities are what set SPECS apart. That is hardly the case anymore when all 3 rogue specs play so ridiculously alike or when fury and arms play with the same rotations but with different names for their abilities.

[Deleted]

Finding it hard to believe someone could cry over this, I'm hoping it's an exaggeration or terrible troll attempt.

Either way the new system is so much better, all the old talents got rolled into the specs, so really the new system is a BONUS to what we had before. To those saying they never used "cookie cutter" builds then I'm sorry but you were most likely bad at playing your class, unless the fight required an alternative build.

[Arbs]

Some people just understand how mindless the old talents trees were the only time those old talent made any sense was the 6 month gap between WoW Launch & after Molten Core was released. Once you found out what spec was the best you rolled with that until someone found something better. The bare minimum of players tested out new builds the rest just followed everyone and that lasted until the end of Cata.

Atleast with the new talent system I can swap for something different, Talent system is something versatile and interesting now. Old one was ok I wanna play a Frost DK, let me open up WoWhead and see what the build/s are, After that you never look at the talent tree until you either switched specs or found a new one.

[Giants41]

If your crying over a game i think you should discover the important things in life.

[Asphyxiate9]

I would love the old trees to come back if there was a way to balance them so there was no best spec, but thats pretty much impossible.

New ones we get to choose from what defensive we like, what CC we like, what CD we like. There are a few cases where we dont have much of a choice because one is significantly better but blizzard is able to balance it unlike the old system. Well i guess they could have but they never did.

[Very Tired]

First world problems?

[Kaiarra]

My main issue with the new system is that leveling up alts feel so ... bleak? It feels like I hardly ever get any new skills or a chance to pick a talent, and it gets worse the closer you get to 90; I know it's silly but I do really miss 'ye olde level up and stick your skill point in the box' thing for some reason - It felt like a little reward for every level you gained even if you had to dump it into some rubbish talent.

I also feel some of the choices are all just so equally mediocre that I can't be bothered to pick one (bit like Guardian major glyphs); I know some of my lower level alts have only picked up 3/5 of the tiers (runspeed/DPS boost/passive) because the rest just looked so boring (normally 6 various types of CC).

[skitzy129]

Which is an all around terrible change.

The old talent system was interesting enough that you could spend hours deciding on what talent tree might work best for you. You'd realize that maybe you were having trouble generating rage, or maybe a bit more hit chance from talents instead of gear might be great help or maybe you might be able to weave slams into your rotation or more heroic strike queues that you could reduce the rage cost for.

The old system allowed you to modify your gameplay like this new one never can. Everyone loves new abilities but when that's all the new talent tree is with nothing but situational decisions that can be made for it then you know they've utterly failed at their design goal. Hell, I'd go so far as to say these new talents are a step back from the wotlk/tbc model.

There was no choice if you wanted to play optimally before.

Zero choice.

Every single top pve/pvp player used the same things with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 floating points. The new system completely demolishes the old system in every fathomable way.

[Justignoreme]

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone looked up talent trees online.

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone who looked up talent trees online had the exact same talents.

So there were a lot of people who went with 5/10% increase damage to their main nuke but didn't get the last point for 15% to get (insert now defunct and removed "talent")?

I suppose u will say a whole lot of monks actually used path of blossoms for something beyond goofing around?

[Mosotti]

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone looked up talent trees online.

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone who looked up talent trees online had the exact same talents.

You're right, there were always those that sucked for the sake of originality