Gc Confirmed

[Docmort]

I won't argue that things seem to be improving, hoping that burst damage is actually toned down this time. It's not all doom and gloom but it does require that Blizz consciously adds softer classes's survivability to the equation when adding all these new abilities. I'm somewhere on the neutral line leaning slightly toward pessimist: you have to remember that the armor buff was removed so the actual defense addition ends up being half of the buff. Something like shadowflame would be nice; I don't see revamped blood fear being a pillar of our pvp-play as it was pre-5.2, a pretty solid net negative change. It shouldn't be as it was clearly too much, but it was relied upon a lot for having a melee in your face. I can't confirm this despite doing some looking but I've seen it mentioned that Nadagast is switching to monk, it's not the sky falling but when old veterans start moving it kicks you right in the moral.

I've been mulling one of our issues over, that we have the only spec that requires you to sit there and channel to put out any kind of pressure. Without the channel our dots tick less than dk diseases (this was at least true at the beginning of the expansion, haven't verified it since). What's really punitive is that an interrupt on the channel locks us out of the vast majority of our spells.

With the imminent free glyph slot a solution could be a glyph of malefic grasp. Instead of a channel it makes it a dispelable modifier you apply in the same vein as haunt with a 1.5 sec cast, not sure about the duration. Can only be cast on one target. I know we're sick of the double modifier but it's no different than the current system and allows us more freedom after it's applied. To not impact pve it would need to be a dps loss, perhaps remove it's native damage and only keep the modifier. Make sure it doesn't stack with drain soul. We would lose our filler but we still have fel flame and the ability to cc, spread dots, etc. It would be a lot less taxing than the current spec but would still take finesse to maximize uptime for mg and haunt on top of our dots. It doesn't solve our defense issues but it allows us to be effective if we get breathing room. Plus it will synergize well with the UA dispel buff, making it an actual decision whether it would be better to dispel rather than healing through it with ease.

[silverhatred]

Do explain.

Blood fear. High damage. High burst. High survivability. Range. Well represented in arena and rbgs. High and low rating both.

[Xeraxis]

all that shows is that afflocks arent bad on any encounter, it doesnt show if they top charts on every encounter, if you take wol it shows something different entirely, as that shows afflocks are good on some encounters(mainly single target encoutners) but gets beaten to a grisp on others.

Welcome to WoW where if your class is fine in most encounters and just struggles in some you're more than OK. You want OP? Just wait, but currently locks are perfectly fine.

[Docmort]

Blood fear. High damage. High burst. High survivability. Range. Well represented in arena and rbgs. High and low rating both.

A lot of this is currently false or will be (blood fear) in 5.2. The only thing I can agree with is range.

[silverhatred]

A lot of this is currently false or will be (blood fear) in 5.2. The only thing I can agree with is range.

I said they were doing very well in 5.1 and 5.2 wasn't even out yet. He said do explain, do not take me out of context nor put words in my mouth. Fucking read.

[Darkith]

Doesn't Heroic Elegon COMPLETELY skew overall dps numbers???

[Docmort]

I said they were doing very well in 5.1 and 5.2 wasn't even out yet. He said do explain, do not take me out of context nor put words in my mouth. Fucking read.

Problem is even with blood fear we definitely do not have good representation. Also the height of our burst, chaos bolt, can easily be outmatched when you compare its DPET with the normal rotation of real burst classes. As for our survivability, after you've popped your dark regen and cookie and blown your bubble I hope your healer has some cd's left cuz you're gonna need them, nothing's peeling that melee off.

[Ogre8686]

Problem is even with blood fear we definitely do not have good representation. Also the height of our burst, chaos bolt, can easily be outmatched when you compare its DPET with the normal rotation of real burst classes. As for our survivability, after you've popped your dark regen and cookie and blown your bubble I hope your healer has some cd's left cuz you're gonna need them, nothing's peeling that melee off.

As far as good representation goes in rated play. Rbgs still almost require having a lock on your team to get high, win trading aside. We also have wall *big dmg reduction cd, dark bargain/sacrifical pact, and have you tried going howl of terror for melee cleaves? kiting them away from your port and then port to another level? Using your gateway? I mean a warlock has so many outs, and I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here but I cant see where you're coming from. Yes melee burst is high, and maybe locks arent the #1 caster but they are certainly far from the worst.

[silverhatred]

Problem is even with blood fear we definitely do not have good representation. Also the height of our burst, chaos bolt, can easily be outmatched when you compare its DPET with the normal rotation of real burst classes. As for our survivability, after you've popped your dark regen and cookie and blown your bubble I hope your healer has some cd's left cuz you're gonna need them, nothing's peeling that melee off.

Portal. And blood fear again. And howl/shadowfury/mortal coil and demonic gateway if you set it up. If you go through ALL of that becuase they put so much pressure on you and your team, then you can trinket and rely on your team to save you/heal you. If that doesn't work then maybe you lost to a better team. I know classes who don't have half the stuff you do to get in and out of fights and without any cooldowns you are already better than them. You really need to understand how strong we are compared to other classes and not think up a situation you get yourself into and use that as justification why you think the class is bad.

[Nicola]

Portal. And blood fear again. And howl/shadowfury/mortal coil and demonic gateway if you set it up. If you go through ALL of that becuase they put so much pressure on you and your team, then you can trinket and rely on your team to save you/heal you. If that doesn't work then maybe you lost to a better team. I know classes who don't have half the stuff you do to get in and out of fights and without any cooldowns you are already better than them. You really need to understand how strong we are compared to other classes and not think up a situation you get yourself into and use that as justification why you think the class is bad.

Stop being clueless please.

Warlock is anything but good at the moment, if you think otherwise you either don't play a warlock, or you play at 1k rating where every single class is good.

Can someone be nice and just quote me from one of those other 1000 posts where I've explained why warlocks are bad in PvP now? I'm a bit to lazy to write a wall of text now

To quote a 3 times gladiator from AJ

Honestly, warlocks are completely useless outside of Dark Soul. It's Dark Soul and Blood Fear making us work right now on the offensive part of the game. Nothing else.

[Chrispotter]

So many 1200's saying that warlock is fine LOL. Warlock can only be played in a few select comps above 2200 now. FYI the 10% damage reduction is only a small buff, because they are removing our passive armor buff as a trade off. Afflic Dots still do no damage without malefic grasp, and destro is useless outside of 3 second cast time chaos bolts. With bloodfear removal there is literally 0 reason to bring a warlock to your arena team or rbg over a shadowpriest. Everything warlocks can do, shadowpriests can do better.

[xskarma]

Stop being clueless please.

I suggest you don't describe other posters as "clueless" it's rather insulting.

Can someone be nice and just quote me from one of those other 1000 posts where I've explained why warlocks are bad in PvP now? I'm a bit to lazy to write a wall of text now

If you don't have the will to post a full explanation then don't post, it's that simple. While I agree you've been a good poster up till now, this does not excuse you from making a bad post right now.


Having adressed your post, a service announcement for the thread in general not specifically directed at you Niberion, but at everyone reading/posting.

Don't let this thread devolve into personal attacks and insults. If you have a point to make, make it without using cusswords, personal attacks or demeaning other's opinions. Let your argument stand on it's own merits.

[Docmort]

As far as good representation goes in rated play. Rbgs still almost require having a lock on your team to get high, win trading aside. We also have wall *big dmg reduction cd, dark bargain/sacrifical pact, and have you tried going howl of terror for melee cleaves? kiting them away from your port and then port to another level? Using your gateway? I mean a warlock has so many outs, and I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here but I cant see where you're coming from. Yes melee burst is high, and maybe locks arent the #1 caster but they are certainly far from the worst.

I understand what you're saying and I know you don't mean any offense. I know we have good representation in RBG's but the reason I'm focusing on 3's is because it's the pvp that classes are balanced around.

I always try to setup a demonic gateway from the getgo if the other team is stupid enough to let me. When I get focused I open with sac pact, it has the shortest cd and I'll be able to use it again if I survive the minute, plus dark regen will heal my pet up if I need to use it after that. I try to kite away after his stun, use a blood fear after the melee's fear immunity he opens with runs out while trying to spread dots. If this gives me breathing room great I move into a range where I can still port back and I can be in striking distance of their healer, pop ds and make sure amped up dots are on targets. Once the melee reconnects I use teleport and wait for fear dr to run out before hitting the melee again, depending on timing he might use one of his abilities to break it or trinket. I'll probably be forced to use the rest of my defensive cd's before my teleport comes off cd and I can only hope my partner is putting up a lot of pressure and I'm able to keep dots rolling. After that I have to rely on my healer for the majority of the game to keep me alive. This is 80% of games I play, I have melee attached to my behind so often I feel like a ventriloquists dummy. All my defensives are blown within the first minute and if we haven't landed a kill it's a struggle to just stay alive. Most of our success comes from when melee don't know to train the warlock, when they do train me the win/loss ratio is nothing to be proud of.

The cd model is nice but we lost too much defense, we've become even bigger melee magnets than ever and the extra 5% (10% DR - armor we lose) we're getting isn't going to be game changing.

---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 04:59 PM ----------

Portal. And blood fear again. And howl/shadowfury/mortal coil and demonic gateway if you set it up. If you go through ALL of that becuase they put so much pressure on you and your team, then you can trinket and rely on your team to save you/heal you. If that doesn't work then maybe you lost to a better team. I know classes who don't have half the stuff you do to get in and out of fights and without any cooldowns you are already better than them. You really need to understand how strong we are compared to other classes and not think up a situation you get yourself into and use that as justification why you think the class is bad.

I'm sorry but when the majority of melee strategy comes down to blow up the lock as an opener and affliction locks, which happen to be the highest spec representation above 2200, complain that they can't put out even decent pressure when being trained by a single melee, in the end how much do our defensive cd's amount to? It's just not enough and as of right now I'm of the opinion that our representation will plummet even further with buffs coming to other classes and the loss of blood fear in 5.2.

[MrHappy]

On twitter today he stated in a post to someone that warlocks are fine and will be fine even after the nerfs... Lol clearly he has no clue.

lol clearly your resume on class design via your "perception" of how the class is doing is vastly superior to everyone else and the game designers.

[Rustjive]

Current Warlock representation in 3s (all 3 specs combined), above 2200 is 4.1%.

http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...0-0-3-0-0.html

[doylo]

So many 1200's saying that warlock is fine LOL. Warlock can only be played in a few select comps above 2200 now. FYI the 10% damage reduction is only a small buff, because they are removing our passive armor buff as a trade off. Afflic Dots still do no damage without malefic grasp, and destro is useless outside of 3 second cast time chaos bolts. With bloodfear removal there is literally 0 reason to bring a warlock to your arena team or rbg over a shadowpriest. Everything warlocks can do, shadowpriests can do better.

He's actually 943 rating http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...rhatred/simple

Completely agree with you, saw a post on the US forums about increasing DoT damage with PVP power (obvs nerf MG in return) but pretty sure that would solve afflics pressure issue.

[Schirmy]

As per usual, Niberion and even Chrispotter are right. None of these buffs to Warlocks or nerfs to other classes will make a difference.

My UA on PTR with T2 upgraded twice hits for 65k, it's still underwhelming; we're still squishy and will keel over; and our damge is still sub-par.

Yeah, you didn't have to even look at his toon to know his posts are ignorant.

[Deleted]

Welcome to WoW where if your class is fine in most encounters and just struggles in some you're more than OK. You want OP? Just wait, but currently locks are perfectly fine.

i agree, atm locks are perfectly fine in pve, and will continue to be so, even after this GoSac nerf as it wont hit us as hard as the arcane changes, but my guess is that the tweaking isnt over yet, and that notion makes my skin crawl, coz we all know blizz too well, 9 times out of 10 they overnerf or overpower something and then they get horribly stubborn and wait ages to undo something and by the time they finally do undo an overnerf, the dmg is done and ppl have moved on, i, like every1 else, want my class to be good at most things, not OP good like mages were at the begining of this xpansion, but good enough to be worth getting a raid spot for every encounter.

[Natixsphere]

This post was never about Pve... It's about arena and our representation in arena... It's at an all time low. Anyone who says other wise is just being ignorant to the facts. Warlocks only real moment in arena to do dmg is during cool downs that's it outside of that our dmg is below par. All other as for casters we certainly are not the best and our peels are by far the worst. With every class practically having some form of fear break that leaves us with howl or shadow fury for peels or cc. Death coil only being able to peel one person isn't really worth specing into for arena et least I don't feel it is. As for the ghost crawler post on twitter I can't give you a link I only use twitter from my phone an I'm unable to provide one but the question to him was to explain warlock nerfs and how it will effect them in pvp..all he said was locks are ok... Anyone with a mind knows that is not the case. Sorry for the wall of text typing this from my phone as well.

[Xeraxis]

This post was never about Pve... It's about arena and our representation in arena... It's at an all time low. Anyone who says other wise is just being ignorant to the facts. Warlocks only real moment in arena to do dmg is during cool downs that's it outside of that our dmg is below par. All other as for casters we certainly are not the best and our peels are by far the worst. With every class practically having some form of fear break that leaves us with howl or shadow fury for peels or cc. Death coil only being able to peel one person isn't really worth specing into for arena et least I don't feel it is. As for the ghost crawler post on twitter I can't give you a link I only use twitter from my phone an I'm unable to provide one but the question to him was to explain warlock nerfs and how it will effect them in pvp..all he said was locks are ok... Anyone with a mind knows that is not the case. Sorry for the wall of text typing this from my phone as well.

Well then I'd suggest you learn to use the PvP subforum or learn to properly convey all that information in your OP. However though currently in PvP warlocks are still beating 3 other classes in representation 3s and 4 other classes in 5s. They may not be great but they are fine.

Honestly unless you are a rogue or monk you have no right to be bitching about the current representation of your class in PvP.