MSV/HOF/TOES < Cata / WOTLK / BC / Vanilla Raiding

[Azeryx]

Hey everyone, kinda new to the forums here. Just wanted to QQ a bit.

Is there a reason why the MOP raids are absolutely horrible compared to any previous raid content? MSV is garbage, some of my guildies left halfway through an HoF run because of how absolutely boring it was. ToES was okay, by far the best of the three, but by far one of the worst in the game. Mechanics feel more annoying rather than fun, and there isn't that.. "raidy" feel to these raids. It feels as if there's just one straight path to each boss with some trash in between them. This kinda started with DS, where you fought in the ovaries of some weird, tentacle-y monsters. It was just one straight pathway to each boss. I remember raiding Firelands- where it's a huge, open area that gives the raid a "raidy" feel to it. Or Hyjal. Or this is just me QQ'ing over stupid stuff.
I just left a PuG for MSV because it's just so boring. DS was pretty bad, but I never left halfway through a (decent) pug because of boredom, and I hate to say that, especially with how bad 4.3 was.. Anyone else experienced severe boredom playing this content? I'm planning on cancelling my subscription to WoW until 5.2 comes out, hopefully Thunder King won't be as bad as this trash.

Yay for QQ.

[Chickat]

You are honestly telling me that molten core is better then mogushan vaults? Is that opinion even possible?

Imo tier 14 is as good or better then tier 11. Tier 11 was better then tier 7 9 and as good as tier 10. Even tier 9 beats anything from vanilla. The bc raids were good, but good for the time. They have hardly any real ability's, and the boss design is just a step up from auto attacking like in vanilla.

Vanilla>BC>Cata>Wrath>MoP. if mop sucks after tier 14 put it behind wrath and equal to cata. Also if mop turns out to be as good as i think it will, it will be ahead of wrath.

Cata was only behind wrath because of tier 13 which i admit is as bad or a bit worse then tier 9. Tier 12 wasn't bad but wasn't good either.

That is ranked from worst to best. vanilla being the worst mop/wrath being the best.

[Banzhe]

So you say Old Hyjal and Firelands are better, yet in the same context downrank Msv because it's slightly more liniar compared to Firelands, yet overall has a lot less trash then either of those encounters;

Yes, it is just you Q_Q'ing over stupid stuff!

On a side note, I'm not all convinced you actually played when Hyjal was current content.., call it reading between the lines.

[Azeryx]

You are honestly telling me that molten core is better then mogushan vaults? Is that opinion even possible?

Yes, because back in that teir (vanilla) that content was absolutely ASTOUNDING and EPIC as hell. We're talking content back when it was current. I didn't make that clear, my bad.

Vanilla>BC>Cata>Wrath>MoP. if mop sucks after tier 14 put it behind wrath and equal to cata. Also if mop turns out to be as good as i think it will, it will be ahead of wrath.

Although I do agree, I don't think it will get there. I have high hopes for 5.2 but if that sucks.. Gg.

---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 12:07 AM ----------

So you say Old Hyjal and Firelands are better, yet in the same context downrank Msv because it's slightly more liniar compared to Firelands, yet overall has a lot less trash then either of those encounters;

Yes, it is just you Q_Q'ing over stupid stuff!

Although a valid point, again, we're talking current.

[Deleted]

Honestly I havn't felt that yet. I imagine if we'd hit a brickwall progress wise (either unable to kill a new boss or choosing not to OR finishing all the content) I may agree with you. So far we're on track to kill Sha of Fear Hc right about 5.2 (best guess) and the mechanics have been fresh and engaging. I wouldn't say this is the best tier ever but it's certainly not the worst. I'd put it behind t8, t10 and t11. I'd say it's safely ahead of t13 / t9 / t7 though.

I like the artwork design of the raids. The models are new (well, it's a new xpac afterall) and the architecture is pretty. The lore is 'ok', it has lore which is good although I don't find it that interesting right now.

You mention you're pugging. Would it be safe to assume that you're pugging 10man normal? There's a good chance I would find 10man normal boring as sin too. Besides 10man lacking any kind of 'epic' feeling to it, facerolling through normals will always get boring fast. Try going for heroic modes to add some challenge back in or scale up to 25man for a more epic feeling and it may change your opinions.

[Arbs]

I find raiding back in the day was challenging & difficult only cause many people were new to it and alot never raided in EQ. So it was something fresh to them, we weren't seasoned like we are now. But back in the day there weren't mechanics like we have today its pretty much just stand out this & that & you get hit like a truck.

I believe fights are way more challenging or have been getting more challenging, but alot of people including myself are seasoned veterans at raiding and its just something know very well now & will addons like DBM/BigWigs makes it easier for us than it did back than.

So bascially what im trying to say is that Raiding was only hard back in the day cause the tools & sources we have today make it easier for us to execute encounters than back than even if they hardly had any big mechanics like we currently have today, With the resources we have at are disposal it makes Raiding alot easier & the fights are as challenging as ever.

http://manaflask.com/en/article/2038...gm-and-members

Method the Top Guild in the World, even stated in the interview I posted that Raids are has hard as ever, There will never be a fight we can't conquer with all the resources we have are disposal.

[Lysah]

How is any raid not a linear path? AQ40? One path. BT? One path. Naxx? Four paths, but you'd better believe all of them are linear.

[Byniri]

Yes, because back in that teir (vanilla) that content was absolutely ASTOUNDING and EPIC as hell. We're talking content back when it was current. I didn't make that clear, my bad.



Although I do agree, I don't think it will get there. I have high hopes for 5.2 but if that sucks.. Gg.

---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 12:07 AM ----------



Although a valid point, again, we're talking current.

You should really put this in your original post. Although I think you're just QQing for the sake of it, it would add more to your argument.

Vanilla>BC>Cata>Wrath>MoP. if mop sucks after tier 14 put it behind wrath and equal to cata. Also if mop turns out to be as good as i think it will, it will be ahead of wrath.

Are you sure you ordered these right? MoP is already last in your ranks.

[Deleted]

bosses are designed around the use of Addons

[Deleted]

What you talking about? T11 was by far the worst tier in the game, by far.
The only bad thing that can be said about T14 is the fact that MSV becomes useless once you get into HoF due to being 7 lvls lower. Hope they learn from that mistake and won't add another ilvl-staggered tier.

[Bryntrollian]

What you talking about? T11 was by far the worst tier in the game, by far.
The only bad thing that can be said about T14 is the fact that MSV becomes useless once you get into HoF due to being 7 lvls lower. Hope they learn from that mistake and won't add another ilvl-staggered tier.

Gurl you is crazy ...

Mop > everything else

[Fat Mac]

HoF is def the most boring, worst raid ever .MoP is great and the other raids are ok but HoF is sooo bad ..

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

I could have sworn these forums weren't here to make rant threads with the whole thing based around their opinion.

[Last Starfighter]

What you talking about? T11 was by far the worst tier in the game, by far.
The only bad thing that can be said about T14 is the fact that MSV becomes useless once you get into HoF due to being 7 lvls lower. Hope they learn from that mistake and won't add another ilvl-staggered tier.

T11 was a blast. My favorite tier probably yet. It felt like alot of work went into the zones, and alot of new mechanics made it great for me. T9 absolutely sucked, and T13 was just as bad. MSV ilvl doesn't matter because there is so much gear in the other 2 zones that you use MSV as a stepping stone. Which I thought was pretty smart on blizzards part.

---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 05:35 AM ----------

HoF is def the most boring, worst raid ever .MoP is great and the other raids are ok but HoF is sooo bad ..

Does Trial of the Crusader ring a bell? Being able to kill only the first boss in the first week of release was awesome! /sarcasm

---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 05:37 AM ----------

I could have sworn these forums weren't here to make rant threads with the whole thing based around their opinion.

That's all the forums have become...

All you need are these 3 ingredients

1) A popular video game
2) People playing the video game
3) And forums

And let the ranting begin...

[gutnbrg]

in cata werent u allowed to join a raid that was doing a boss that u havent killed yet even if u had killed others in that raid...like say i enter msv and had already killed the 1st and 3rd boss....in cata wouldnt i have been allowed to join the new raid just for boss #2?

[Azeryx]

I could have sworn these forums weren't here to make rant threads with the whole thing based around their opinion.

Obviously it's not JUST my opinion. My guild, a few of the comments on this thread, etc.

Although my opinion is a bit amplified here, this is a general discussion forum, meaning general discussion on any subject about World of Warcraft or related to World of Warcraft. That is what this forum is for.

---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 12:40 AM ----------

True, but although they are linear, there is something about them. Maybe lore? I dunno. It's weird. Maybe because an entire raid based upon evil bugs posessed by a leader that turned to the Sha doesn't seem to be fun, or you clearing up some stone people from their vaults.

---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 12:41 AM ----------

T11 was a blast. My favorite tier probably yet. It felt like alot of work went into the zones, and alot of new mechanics made it great for me. T9 absolutely sucked, and T13 was just as bad. MSV ilvl doesn't matter because there is so much gear in the other 2 zones that you use MSV as a stepping stone. Which I thought was pretty smart on blizzards part.

Agreed, T11 was awesome imho.

[Deleted]

in cata werent u allowed to join a raid that was doing a boss that u havent killed yet even if u had killed others in that raid...like say i enter msv and had already killed the 1st and 3rd boss....in cata wouldnt i have been allowed to join the new raid just for boss #2?

There is no 2nd and 3rd boss in Cata raids, Zonozz and Yorsahj can both be considered 2nd.
Like most people considered FL's first boss Shannox, but he was actually the 4th on the list, and could even be chosen as 5th.

[Mawnix]

The design, scale of each fight, and overall enjoyment I get from the new raids is just..fantastic.

The raiding is much more coherent than Cata's was, along with having the enjoyment I felt from Wrath raiding again.

So yeah, I dunno why you're complaining.

To each his own.

[Azeryx]

in cata werent u allowed to join a raid that was doing a boss that u havent killed yet even if u had killed others in that raid...like say i enter msv and had already killed the 1st and 3rd boss....in cata wouldnt i have been allowed to join the new raid just for boss #2?

It's hard to understand what you're trying to convey here but- I think something about joining half-finished PuGs? You can still do that now, back in cata, etc. I think that's what you're trying to say, at least..

[Last Starfighter]

Obviously it's not JUST my opinion. My guild, a few of the comments on this thread, etc.

Although my opinion is a bit amplified here, this is a general discussion forum, meaning general discussion on any subject about World of Warcraft or related to World of Warcraft. That is what this forum is for.

---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 12:40 AM ----------

True, but although they are linear, there is something about them. Maybe lore? I dunno. It's weird. Maybe because an entire raid based upon evil bugs posessed by a leader that turned to the Sha doesn't seem to be fun, or you clearing up some stone people from their vaults.

---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 12:41 AM ----------



Agreed, T11 was awesome imho.

Look at Ulduar. Great raid, but had absolutely nothing to do with the war against the Lich King. Yogg would have been something that should have ended the expac. Not "Oh look! AN OLD GOD! Something that is much more powerful, and just as much of a threat to the world as the Lich King! And hey! He even M/C'd some Titans!"

So the titans after free'd from their MC couldn't have marched on ICC and squashed Arthas?

And considering that the Dread Wastes are a big part of the story, as well as the Klaxxi, HoF fits well.