Forced rep grinding? A plus or minus in MoP

[Wildtree]

Why were dailies never content before? You had a wealth of dailies to occupy your time in cataclysm. A WEALTH. The list of dailies is long as my arm. Are you exalted with every daily faction in the game? Of course not because NONE OF YOU DID IT WITHOUT THE FUCKING GEAR. So now the gear has to be put in place SO THAT YOU FEEL COMPELLED TO DO IT. If you did the dailies without the gear all those years you'd never need the compulsion now.

Dailies, not repeatable quest, those exist since vanilla. Dailies are in the game since TBC, and for myself, yes I am exalted with all daily factions, as well as with every toon I maintain and progress on max level. My main is exalted with 66 factions, revered with 68 and honored with 69.

The game is a grind from level 1 at day 1 on.. Pick up quest, go collect or kill or both, go back turn in, pick up next. That's the concept from the very first day on.
If one dislikes that concept, I have to ask, why in Gods name do you keep playing the game at all? If I don't like this mechanic, I'd quit long before I would have reached max level with only one toon, let alone an army of toons.
No one forced us in any way, shape or form to create mass amounts of alts. Therefore no one can be blamed if we get overwhelmed with picking them back up, level and progress them through the known grind again, every time a new expansion comes out.

[Leonard McCoy]

I said Vanilla had repreatables lol, don't try to give me a history lesson hahaahaha.

No, not every BC faction had turn in quests. Some were dailies, some were turn ins.

None of them had gear behind them, or reward that was significant enough like 5.0 dailies. I didn't touch ogrila or shatari skyguard for example. Didn't care. They didn't have any progression related stuff behind them.

---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 07:12 AM ----------

Dailies, not repeatable quest, those exist since vanilla. Dailies are in the game since TBC, and for myself, yes I am exalted with all daily factions, as well as with every toon I maintain and progress on max level. My main is exalted with 66 factions, revered with 68 and honored with 69.

The game is a grind from level 1 at day 1 on.. Pick up quest, go collect or kill or both, go back turn in, pick up next. That's the concept from the very first day on.
If one dislikes that concept, I have to ask, why in Gods name do you keep playing the game at all? If I don't like this mechanic, I'd quit long before I would have reached max level with only one toon, let alone an army of toons.
No one forced us in any way, shape or form to create mass amounts of alts. Therefore no one can be blamed if we get overwhelmed with picking them back up, level and progress them through the known grind again, every time a new expansion comes out.

The game may have been a grind in vanilla but the history of the game and it's success has been making the grind less and less painful. It has never as far as I'm aware ever went backwards in this. In fact the entire history of the games success has been about making the game progressively more and more friendly. Even in TBC really.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Dailies didn't exist in vanilla. Tbc had turn ins but those were items that you also got from... DUNGEONS. Every single fucking rep you could farm in dungeons if you so chose. Including vanilla reps with the exception of the furlbogs.

---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 07:09 AM ----------



Which you could either totally BUY circumventing much of the grind OR GET FROM DUNGEONS. In NO WAY WAS I ASKED TO GO OUT OF MY WAY TO DO SHIT I DIDN'T WANT TO DO IN THE FIRST PLACE. See that's what you don't fucking get. You acknowledge that the gear centric masses have a problem with dailies but can't seem to see the fact that the gear is put behind those dailies to get those same masses to do the fucking dailies. See you people and Blizzard as much as you try and hide behind it can't get around the fact that people of course feel compelled to do it because the gear is there to make you feel compelled to do it. The "gear centric masses" only follow one thing so of course the dailies have to have one thing behind them to get them to do it. Just like the mouse and the cheese.

I acknowledge that you have a personal sickness that you should address. Addiction is a serious problem. You could only buy 1 turn in. So thats another false statement. If you really think you have less options now than you did in BC, I am going to say you didn't play during BC man.

No. No one is forcing you to do dailies. If you want the optional rewards dailies give, then you can do them. Scream, raging, and cursing at me isn't an argument. I'm sorry you have the mind/willpower/confidence of a common lab mouse, but many do not. If you do, you need to see a doctor.

---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 02:16 AM ----------

None of them had gear behind them, or reward that was significant enough like 5.0 dailies. I didn't touch ogrila or shatari skyguard for example. Didn't care. They didn't have any progression related stuff behind them.

---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 07:12 AM ----------

if you think reps in BC didn't have loot waiting at the end of them, I will again question your credentials.

[Leonard McCoy]

I acknowledge that you have a personal sickness that you should address. Addiction is a serious problem. You could only buy 1 turn in. So thats another false statement. If you really think you have less options now than you did in BC, I am going to say you didn't play during BC man.

No. No one is forcing you to do dailies. If you want the optional rewards dailies give, then you can do them. Scream, raging, and cursing at me isn't an argument. I'm sorry you have the mind/willpower/confidence of a common lab mouse, but many do not. If you do, you need to see a doctor.

I played during BC but I never said anything about options. I said rep was tied to an activity I liked doing it anyway.

You people want to keep hiding behind the literal definition of the word forced, that's why I'm not using it. I said you were COMPELLED by the gear and that was the exact reason the gear was put behind it. To compel, motivate, lure whatever it takes to get you to do the fucking dailies because so few of you did them in the past. If they were something to do in the past they wouldn't need more reward behind them. Clearly Blizzard wants to compel more people to do them. I'm not sure how you and them can then turn aruond and say hey man don't feel compelled to do them when they are clearly designed to be compelling in this fashion.

[But I Hate You All]

I said Vanilla had repreatables lol, don't try to give me a history lesson hahaahaha.

No, not every BC faction had turn in quests. Some were dailies, some were turn ins.

Only the SSO, Ogrela, netherdrake and the skyguard was Dailies for rep.

SSO was the only one who had gear

[Leonard McCoy]

if you think reps in BC didn't have loot waiting at the end of them, I will again question your credentials.

The reps I got from dungeons had the gear. Not the reps from dailies. YOu keep moving the goal post.

[Wildtree]

Argent Dawn was not a raid reputation. Or not exclusively. You could get rep out of them from DUNGEONS. 5 mans. Neither was thorium brotherhood. You could get that out of dungeon turn ins as well. NOT FUCKING DAILY QUESTS.

Dude.... I say that only once now...
Either tame your temper and drop your insulting language or I will definitely report your out of line comments....
To the topic, re-read what we telling you. We both have clearly separated Reputable quests and Dailies. We provided the timelines for it multiple times, you don't have to correct us on stuff we've already said before.
And to AD. true. you could get items from 5 mans... But those 5 mans weren't exactly walk in the park kinda deals. They required hours to run, unlike the 15 minute blast throughs of today's 5 mans. And in case of Stratholm, that was even a raid at some point and changed to 5 mans.
The point stands... Grind back throughout WoW's history was incomparable harder, and a lot more time consuming. And yet almost all the factions yielded gear or items that helped crafting gear, or make it better.
Thorium Brotherhood stops with out of Raid progression at some point.... Then the only way to raise it was/is either the super rare hearts of the mountain from mining, or the cores which are dropping in Molten Core...

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Only the SSO, Ogrela, netherdrake and the skyguard was Dailies for rep.

SSO was the only one who had gear

SSO, Ggrila, and Skyguard all had gear. Hellfire had repeatables for rep as well, and I think a few others.

[Leonard McCoy]

Dude.... I say that only once now...
Either tame your temper and drop your insulting language or I will definitely report your out of line comments....
To the topic, re-read what we telling you. We both have clearly separated Reputable quests and Dailies. We provided the timelines for it multiple times, you don't have to correct us on stuff we've already said before.
And to AD. true. you could get items from 5 mans... But those 5 mans weren't exactly walk in the park kinda deals. They required hours to run, unlike the 15 minute blast throughs of today's 5 mans. And in case of Stratholm, that was even a raid at some point and changed to 5 mans.
The point stands... Grind back throughout WoW's history was incomparable harder, and a lot more time consuming. And yet almost all the factions yielded gear or items that helped crafting gear, or make it better.
Thorium Brotherhood stops with out of Raid progression at some point.... Then the only way to raise it was/is either the super rare hearts of the mountain from mining, or the cores which are dropping in Molten Core...

I have a wish that I sometime hope will come true but really don't because it'll spell doom for the game. I wish that every clown who is convinced that the game was better when it was back in the day will get their wish and every clown who tells me YOU HAVE IT SO GOOD NOW will get their fondest fucking desire and have the game return to vanilla. They tried to meet you guys half way this expansion and it's a catastrophe in my opinion. The game was not a success based on it's rep grind. It was a success when it became friendlier and friendlier and less of a grind.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

The reps I got from dungeons had the gear. Not the reps from dailies. YOu keep moving the goal post.

False, again.

[Leonard McCoy]

SSO, Ggrila, and Skyguard all had gear. Hellfire had repeatables for rep as well, and I think a few others.

SSO was server wide I never touched a single fuckign dailly and never had to.

The other two weren't around at launch and by the time they were released I already had better gear. They were inconsequential at best.

Dailies have never had this much reward behind them. PERIOD.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I played during BC but I never said anything about options. I said rep was tied to an activity I liked doing it anyway.

You people want to keep hiding behind the literal definition of the word forced, that's why I'm not using it. I said you were COMPELLED by the gear and that was the exact reason the gear was put behind it. To compel, motivate, lure whatever it takes to get you to do the fucking dailies because so few of you did them in the past. If they were something to do in the past they wouldn't need more reward behind them. Clearly Blizzard wants to compel more people to do them. I'm not sure how you and them can then turn aruond and say hey man don't feel compelled to do them when they are clearly designed to be compelling in this fashion.

No, having multiple ways to get gear doesn't mean you have to do them all. If you give in to your gear obsession, thats your problem. I also doubt that no one here did the dailies in BC, as they were pretty necessary as far as getting your epic flying went.

They are designed to have a reward for taking 25 minutes out of your day to complete them, or just do them whenever you like. You don't need to them reach LFR.

---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 02:27 AM ----------

SSO I got rep from in dungeons with turn ins, or bought in the auction house.

The other two weren't around at launch and by the time they were released I already had better gear. They were inconsequential at best.

Dailies have never had this much reward behind them. PERIOD.

SSO came out during the sunwell patch, and I don't remember having AH turn-ins.

---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 02:28 AM ----------

I have a wish that I sometime hope will come true but really don't because it'll spell doom for the game. I wish that every clown who is convinced that the game was better when it was back in the day will get their wish and every clown who tells me YOU HAVE IT SO GOOD NOW will get their fondest fucking desire and have the game return to vanilla. They tried to meet you guys half way this expansion and it's a catastrophe in my opinion. The game was not a success based on it's rep grind. It was a success when it became friendlier and friendlier and less of a grind.

I also sincerely wish this. So all the gear obsessed can move on to playing zynga facebook games.

[But I Hate You All]

SSO, Ggrila, and Skyguard all had gear. Hellfire had repeatables for rep as well, and I think a few others.

looks like your right. Hell fire had 1 daily

[Leonard McCoy]

No, having multiple ways to get gear doesn't mean you have to do them all. If you give in to your gear obsession, thats your problem. I also doubt that no one here did the dailies in BC, as they were pretty necessary as far as getting your epic flying went.

They are designed to have a reward for taking 25 minutes out of your day to complete them, or just do them whenever you like. You don't need to them reach LFR.

---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 02:27 AM ----------



SSO came out during the sunwell patch, and I don't remember having AH turn-ins.

Yea I redited it. I never had to touch a sunwell dailiy in any event it was server wide. If dailies in mists were server wide I wouldn't care but they aren't.

Not everyone had epic flying in BC. Epic flying was actually harder to get in TBC and took some time and effort. I for one didn't bother until WOTLK.

In any event you can't get around the fucking fact that the developers have built a compulsion into the daily quests and are somehow trying to act like people shouldn't be compelled to do them WHEN THEY ARE DESIGNED FOR EXACTLY THAT. I ran out of options to get gear in mists pretty fast. Dungeons don't reward you past the first day or two and then for me it was lfr and sha once a week. I created all the craftable gear I could and have ZERO desire to pvp. That left me with... DAILIES.... to spend my VALOR because the path to gear that I had been used to for god knows how many years now (spending valor) goes through daililes.

[scoona]

with the new commendations you get i just lvled my hunter with it on for shado pan i am sitting at 6k honored just by doing townlong kun lai summit, shado pan monastary and sha once your exalted its easy farming

[Wildtree]

NThe game may have been a grind in vanilla but the history of the game and it's success has been making the grind less and less painful. It has never as far as I'm aware ever went backwards in this. In fact the entire history of the games success has been about making the game progressively more and more friendly. Even in TBC really.

17 factions in TBC speak a clear language that the grinding was at it's peak during that time. Even to the point that you had no other choice than to HAD to zone quest in order to get the heroic mode keys. You had to work your ass off to unlock the heroics, which then gave you the badges to collect for tier gear. Profession items hidden behind reputation, also existent. And depending on the class, even Orgri'la and Skyguards were a viable choice to get an upgrade from them. Especially Orgri'la since the dailies there gave chances of dropping an item which turned into a sweet epic. I've got two of them. They were BOE, nice money made that way..

The ease with grinding really started in WotLK, not earlier. And here's the problem at hand..
Many people complained about it, one way or another. Maybe Blizzard would have never reverted entirely back to that easy mode mechanic. But towards the end of WotLK and even more at the end of Cata the people ran out of anything to do. Possibly the solution is, that we players simply misuse the game, by trying to level every damn alt we got as fast as it gets to 90 again.. Well, it took a lot of time to get them to 70.. took a lot of time to get them to 80... lot of time to 85, and it's no surprise that it again takes a lot of time to get to 90 now.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Yea I redited it. I never had to touch a sunwell dailiy in any event it was server wide. If dailies in mists were server wide I wouldn't care but they aren't.

Not everyone had epic flying in BC. Epic flying was actually harder to get in TBC and took some time and effort. I for one didn't bother until WOTLK.

In any event you can't get around the fucking fact that the developers have built a compulsion into the daily quests and are somehow trying to act like people shouldn't be compelled to do them WHEN THEY ARE DESIGNED FOR EXACTLY THAT. I ran out of options to get gear in mists pretty fast. Dungeons don't reward you past the first day or two and then for me it was lfr and sha once a week. I created all the craftable gear I could and have ZERO desire to pvp. That left me with... DAILIES.... to spend my VALOR because the path to gear that I had been used to for god knows how many years now (spending valor) goes through daililes.

Again, this is like stating you are forced to grind away at the game forever so you can buy the top quality crafted gear. Or you are forced to raise professions, or you are forced to raise cooking, or fishing, or you are forced to get all the achievements. Just having dailies there with gear as a reward is in no way forcing you into that. You have many options, and again, if you are an LFR hero like I am these days, you don't need to touch a daily to get into any of the five LFRs currently.

[Leonard McCoy]

17 factions in TBC speak a clear language that the grinding was at it's peak during that time. Even to the point that you had no other choice than to HAD to zone quest in order to get the heroic mode keys. You had to work your ass off to unlock the heroics, which then gave you the badges to collect for tier gear. Profession items hidden behind reputation, also existent. And depending on the class, even Orgri'la and Skyguards were a viable choice to get an upgrade from them. Especially Orgri'la since the dailies there gave chances of dropping an item which turned into a sweet epic. I've got two of them. They were BOE, nice money made that way..

The ease with grinding really started in WotLK, not earlier. And here's the problem at hand..
Many people complained about it, one way or another. Maybe Blizzard would have never reverted entirely back to that easy mode mechanic. But towards the end of WotLK and even more at the end of Cata the people ran out of anything to do. Possibly the solution is, that we players simply misuse the game, by trying to level every damn alt we got as fast as it gets to 90 again.. Well, it took a lot of time to get them to 70.. took a lot of time to get them to 80... lot of time to 85, and it's no surprise that it again takes a lot of time to get to 90 now.

Excuse me that simple isn't true. NO TBC faction equates Furlbog in terms of sheer grind. While their may have been more varieties of grind, each particular grind was indeed less grindy. Many of them I could easily avoid because I already had better gear and didn't need the gear from them. I'd avoid mist dailies and reps to if I already had better gear.

The simple fact that you can't get around is that TBC (and this isn't just purely related to faction grind although this applies to tbc) made the game less grindy overall and more user friendly. The company started to make progressive decisions that made the game overall less of a pain in the ass and over the years this resulted in increasing success. The history of the game is a history of progressive decisions that help players out, not hinder them.

---------- Post added 2013-02-02 at 07:37 AM ----------

Again, this is like stating you are forced to grind away at the game forever so you can buy the top quality crafted gear. Or you are forced to raise professions, or you are forced to raise cooking, or fishing, or you are forced to get all the achievements. Just having dailies there with gear as a reward is in no way forcing you into that. You have many options, and again, if you are an LFR hero like I am these days, you don't need to touch a daily to get into any of the five LFRs currently.

Except those options are extremely limited in and of themselves. I'm an lfr hero these days as well and after I'm done my que for the week I'm done. I don't want to do dailies for gear. I've made the craftable gear and I have zero desire or ability to pvp. My ONE way out would have been valor in the past but now that's all behind daililes.. soooo I either sit with this currency in my back OR run the dailies. It's a total compulsion DESIGNED BY THE DEVELOPERS TO BE COMPELLING but it's also a shitty choice.

[Xucuroz]

Not really an issue on mains - i was geared ready for raiding on my first week of hitting 90. I was a tank too, so you can argue that my gear had to be good to tank MSV normal in the blue heroic gear. Yes the gear progression means it can be a bit of a steep hill if you want to jump in right on HoF/TotES, which you can't do but its there for a reason - so you can't skip content. Some people may hate that, others like it.

As for stuff like Rep ect, again it's not quite as bad now as it was when MoP was released. Getting your main to revered and getting the commendations helps a lot with alts, though its not an ideal solution by any means. I do feel like they kind of make valor gear pointless since by the time you have the required rep and valor, you'll most likely have LFR gear, which although not quite as good, is easier to get than grinding rep. Oh and if you still struggle to get the ilvl into LFR? Craft the 476 epics. I mean really. Seen so many people completely ignore them but they are really easy to make matt wise, and at this point in time as long as you are on a good pop realm, you could probably buy them on AH on the cheap`.

5.2 changes should make everyone happy, rep from dungeons, rep via the ranch, old valor items having their valor cost halved making it easier for alts to gear ect... Lots of good changes that should make complaints like this less of an issue.

As i've echoed time and time again, its only your own perception that you are forced into rep grinds. I personally haven't done dailies (except the ranch ones for cooking token) since November and i still manage to bag about 700 valor each week.

[Wildtree]

looks like your right. Hell fire had 1 daily

Yes, Hellfire has the PVP Daily to capture the three targets.