Would top ranked PvPers still be top ranked if gear was equal across the board?

[bjornh]

I'm just wondering. I see a lot of discussion about what gear means for the competivity in World of Warcraft. But let's say gear wasn't an issue at all. Would we see a more competitive arena season if gear wasn't much of an issue? Well, you know how it is with FPS games - let's say you're a Counter-Strike player. You're always able to jump in and be good at it - IF you're good at it. Simplified example I know. And some would of course say 'This is an MMO' and yeah it is. But how about just jumping over to another mindframe a sec - something good might come out of it - is the gearing up aspect of it all really doing WoW PvP a favour? Thanks.

[Riptide]

I'm just wondering. I see a lot of discussion about what gear means for the competivity in World of Warcraft. But let's say gear wasn't an issue at all. Would we see a more competitive arena season if gear wasn't much of an issue? Well, you know how it is with FPS games - let's say you're a Counter-Strike player. You're always able to jump in and be good at it - IF you're good at it. Simplified example I know. And some would of course say 'This is an MMO' and yeah it is. But how about just jumping over to another mindframe a sec - something good might come out of it - is the gearing up aspect of it all really doing WoW PvP a favour? Thanks.

Yes, most of the rank 1's or glads are already multi glads or multi rank 1s.

[Xalzel]

Yes they would. Those who play at top rank are already in the best gear, with best reforges and chants. At that point it's all about skill and who messes up first.

[Deleted]

At one time, long ago, I suggested this. I got so flamed. At that time (probably still) people want their gear to be superior. I personally think this would make PvP more competitive and based more on skill. I would welcome such a change but I dont think the community is ready for it.

[kosechi]

top ranked players would be top ranked no matter what their gear.

mid range players rely on gear a lot more.

[Count Zero]

The very top players, yes.

But the amount of QQ from pvpers about the recently-announced gearing change shows that there is no small supply of folks who know, even if they refuse to acknowledge it, that they need a gear advantage to win at pvp.

[bjornh]

The very top players, yes.

But the amount of QQ from pvpers about the recently-announced gearing change shows that there is no small supply of folks who know, even if they refuse to acknowledge it, that they need a gear advantage to win at pvp.

That is a valid point but one also has to acknowledge the fact that a lot of people get discouraged perhaps a bit too fast about the gear gap. Point is, for the sake of overall competition and for the sake of participation a not-so-steep gearing up curve could perhaps be healthy. That is if one can forgive the 'casuals who need gear to be good' as some would put it.

[Nicola]

Yes they would. Those who play at top rank are already in the best gear, with best reforges and chants. At that point it's all about skill and who messes up first.

Couldn't have said it better.

[cFortyfive]

Depends on your definition of top ranked. There are enough glad players out there that get carried hard by gear and classes.

[bjornh]

What about those who are enjoying playing other games? Let's say you have someone who's a former pro at WoW and he/she is real good at it. He/she also plays like 5 other games and he/she is also real good at that too. Only thing is - he/she still loves playing WoW but he/she just doesn't have time for the gearing up. He/she might be a 10 year and running progamer and one who'd be worth of watching if he/she was streaming or something. But hey - he/she has got a job or education going, became a parent or something - and just can't keep up with certain other gamers, especially if he/she also really wants to participate in other gamer scenes.

Is that person then to be dismissed as a newbie that needs to work for their gear and have no place around this town?

[crakerjack]

Haha that's so illogical to perceive that those who are high ranked are only there because of their gear... everyone had the chance to get where they were... and it's not like they're maintaining that rating while fighting 1300 baddies, they're fighting the same teams every day, multiple times. Bad players will always come up with excuses... "Oh he has better gear..." The difference between a good player and a bad player is that a good player won't pull the victim role... a bad player will always give an excuse as to why they lost and justify that the next time they fight, they would win.

[cFortyfive]

He/she might be a 10 year and running progamer and one who'd be worth of watching if he/she was streaming or something.

Lol'd at she. Anyways no offense but someone not putting in the time practicing is probably also not worth watching.
Regardless entirely dismissing gear is completely retarded especially when looking over legendaries.

[apepi]

I do not get people thinking there will not be any gear disparities. There will be one, the skilled people will end up having better gear. The being of every season usually everyone starts out with about the same gear then the actually skilled people bet the bad people and end up getting T2. The only difference is that by the end of the day(season) the bad people will have the same gear after a long time the bad people get theirs.

If you truly think that it is gear that is holding you back from no being atleast 2k you are wrong. Now understandably being 2100 trying to beat a full deckout t2 team is hard but you just have to out play them.

[crakerjack]

What about those who are enjoying playing other games? Let's say you have someone who's a former pro at WoW and he/she is real good at it. He/she also plays like 5 other games and he/she is also real good at that too. Only thing is - he/she still loves playing WoW but he/she just doesn't have time for the gearing up. He/she might be a 10 year and running progamer and one who'd be worth of watching if he/she was streaming or something. But hey - he/she has got a job or education going, became a parent or something - and just can't keep up with certain other gamers, especially if he/she also really wants to participate in other gamer scenes.

Is that person then to be dismissed as a newbie that needs to work for their gear and have no place around this town?

The player that you're referring to would be able to walk into a BG with 1 season old gear and still be able to kill people... why? Because most people who do BG's don't know anything about this game... and most of them only do PvE. Why is that a bad thing? Because PvE doesn't teach you to utilize your class to the fullest... when as a warrior or rogue do you ever have to disarm in PvE? Never... when do you ever have to use smokebomb? Never... when do shamans have to put down grounding totem to absorb a certain ability from a boss? Never... In PvE, it teaches you to know your basic 5 button rotation, that's all... So when someone who knows the game really well and only has 1 season old PvP gear... lets say he's against a warrior who knows nothing... the warrior won't do anything but spam HS, MS, Slam etc... where as the good player will utilize all his ablities to properly counter the warrior... maybe even mess with the warrior a bit by standing in his dead range so that he can't charge, but is still out of range to melee.

[Snuggli]

Yes. Above 2400 everyone has roughly the same gear so the most skilled / best comps win.

It's only 1800-2400 where there is gear discrepancies because you've got people at 2100 fighting 2200 teams who have t2 and are getting trounced. Also you've got people at 1800 facing each other when one team does RBGs at 2.1k and are 6-7 conquests bits in front. Sometimes a team of 1.6k players has done RBGs at 2.2k and can completely trounce the other team with their t2 weapons.

Remember that the lower the rating, the more often mistakes happen. This means that burst comps, train comps and 1shot macros become better and better the lower rating you go because people don't know how to react. Blow a 1shot macro with a fully upgraded t2 weapon from RBGs at 1500 rating and the other team will just fall over.

[crakerjack]

Another reason why I hate it when people bring up the gear issue is that when ever did you face people in full elite in 3v3??? Better question, how were you in worse gear, but had an MMR high enough to face teams in full elite... oh you didn't? That's because you're bad and playing at 1400 rating, fighting people who have the same gear as you... Complaining about gear is out of the equation when you're fighting people equally geared... the only time you'll fight those who have better gear is in BG's and balancing PvP around BG's is just as illogical as eating fast food when you're already overweight. If that's your arguing point... running into elite geared people in BG's... then you really need to keep your mouth shut... And more importantly, you need to know that even without that elite gear... that player will still destroy you because they comprehend the game more than you... enough to put them at a rating high enough to get elite. But like I said earlier... a bad player will always come up with an excuse IE he has better gear... to all you bad players... get better instead of complaining... that's the very reason why I hate WoW... horrid feedback from bad players in which the dev team listens to.

[Deleted]

I don't think most gladiators are carried by their gear nearly as much as by their class. Look at the plethora of 2200+ KFC's right now. Could they repeat that feat playing another class? Most of them can not. However, there are obviously those players who will reach top ranks with just about any class.

[Snuggli]

the warrior won't do anything but spam HS, MS, Slam etc... where as the good player will utilize all his ablities to properly counter the warrior...

bad example, warrior would still win in 99% of cases because they'd hit second wind and be unkillable for anyone in the previous seasons gear set.

Seriously, log on an alt or undergeared character and try kill a fully geared warrior in defensive stance. Literally impossible, even if they are AFK and aren't using any spells to avoid your damage.

[Deleted]

Of course they (we) would.

[Deleted]

... when do you ever have to use smokebomb? Never...

Hey smokebomb had a use at hagara! It was that 5sec window were you felt usefull as a rogue...such short glory ;_;

That aside gear upgrades on the low level is the illusion for the casuals that it's not their fault and just missing gear. If we made it UT style with fixed stats even more people would probably quit as they realized that they suck and nothing would change it.