Is being a racist really a big deal?

[Noomz]

Fun fact: Because I'm mixed and therefore obviously not 'pure white' or 'pure black', I find myself sometimes in a stalemate situation. Sure, since I live in Germany, I came in touch with my fair share of racist Nazis, but on (very) few occasions with stupid blacks, too. Not too long ago me and a (black) friend of mine got pretty wasted and we went by a club visited mostly by African people gone gangster. As he was a few steps ahead I said something along the lines of 'Wait up, Ni**a!!', which was meant jokingly, by all means.

Still, a whole bunch of guys came out of the club to confront ME, because they we're offended by me using that word. They actually wanted to beat me up. It was a weird situation to me, since they didn't consider me as 'one of theirs' either due to my mixed heritage. Intolerance isn't limited to white men, not at all.

This is what I mean. People need to be able to joke about racism, it will disarm it. Humor is the solution to many of the worlds problems, and when we can't make a joke about something, we're doing something wrong.

---------- Post added 2013-01-28 at 05:16 PM ----------

Now, I don't want to be rude by calling them "Negro's Kiss" or "Moor's Head" but that's how they've been called almost my entire childhood. How else shall I call them? "Dickmann's", because they are the prime manufacturer? :/

We've had a similar thing here in Sweden. There's something literally called "Negro balls", but not balls as in testies, but ball as in football. Some people call them "chocolate balls" instead nowadays, but in the privacy of our homes we still say Negro Balls

Here's a classic swedish movie that makes a joke about it when a team of black American basketball players come to a café.

[Deleted]

Now, I don't want to be rude by calling them "Negro's Kiss" or "Moor's Head" but that's how they've been called almost my entire childhood. How else shall I call them? "Dickmann's", because they are the prime manufacturer? :/

Heh, I sometimes call them Negerkuss myself, but i guess the politically correct term would be Schokokuss/Schaumkuss (Chocolate-Kiss/Mousse-Kiss)

They didn't have a problem with your race if you didn't say it. If you didn't say, would there been a problem? Did saying it change your race? I can call my friends OTB, but if someone passing us used the same term, without knowing the context of a passer by it seems insulting.

The only point I was trying to make is that as a mixed guy, you can piss off both sides. I never called them racist, it was just weird to me that they considered it offensive of me (mixed) to call my friend (black) a N-word, the reason being me not being.. black enough. That's just stupid, won't you agree? They used it all the time in our heated discussion. Clearly, it wasn't intolerance over the word but over a half black, half white guy using it.

I'm not trying to justify the usage of the word at all, since I usually don't use it myself and don't see to many reasons to do so, but since it happened, it kept me wondering: How black must one be to be allowed to use such words? Where is the line drawn? Are all people just stupid?

[Felya]

We have that discussion here in Sweden as well. Some people found a brand of candy to be racist against chinese people because it shows a caricature of a chinese man with a straw hat and thin eyes, so the makes of the candy actually caved in and changed it. Ridiculous, because it's not an intentionally racist thing, it was a caricature, a joke.It's a bit like making some candy that is British-inspired and put a guy on the package that has bad teeth. Except no-one would call that racist.

Intentionally or unintentional does not change it from being racist. It's as simple as, people got offended and did something about it, while if there was a characature with bad teeth, you'd have an avenue to do the same. What I don't understand, if someone finds it offensive and you change the name, why not take the change at face value as an attempt by the candy maker to sell their product to as many people as possible? I would think it would be in the best interest of any product to avoid scrutiny or get press from fixing it, in order to sell more product.

I think people say that racism against white people doesn't happen because white people often make so much jokes about on another that trying to be racist against someone that is white simply won't work. We just don't care about it.

A victim of phisicsl harm due to racism, in two different countries for two different reasons. One resulted in being a refugee and the other in the only injury that ever required a cast that I ever had. Oh and I'm white, the perpetrators were all white as well. I am just a Jew and than an immigrant...

I agree with you, national pride is strange. But many feel pride in being part of a culture or a larger thing. Ofcourse, such things are taken to extremes by some people, which sadly puts a taboo on national pride in some countries.

What is culture if not always changing? Culture is what it is because of the changes that happened to the country. It's grasping to a figment of what culture was, while fighting what it has become.

[Noomz]

Of course racism isn't a big deal. The Civil Rights Movement was just a huge block party. /sarcasm

I think todays rights movements should move away from that, because the real problem nowadays is social differences between those that have no money and those that have all of it.

[rogueMatthias]

The problem in the UK at the moment is the aparent lack of distinction between "Racism" and "Generalisation". People tend to use the former for negative traits and the latter for positive but this is not how they should be. Generalisation is very important, racism is not.

If you say "black men are generally more athletic than white men", it's a generalisation sure, but is it racist? It's not denying that there could be white people more athletic than black people, but it's saying a general pattern.

I honestly believe you can generalise a LOT about people from different cultures based on cultural differences, work ethics etc. There are things in built into cultures that you come across SO readily that if you overlook such clear patterns it can be very counterproductive and some times possibly even quite dangerous.

In this country, people say things like "Indians and Polish people are hard working and dedicated." In my experience, especially with Indians, 9/10 times they're BLOODY hard working and very fast and efficient. It's just a cultural work ethic. But I won't hire based on Race because not all Indians are the same, everyone is an individual and can break any petterns of their society and culture.

Now if I said "another race, who'll currently go nameless, are mostly lazy bullshitters that lie about their skills, pass as much of their work onto others as possible, and promote unskilled people of their own race above other races at the detriment of even the entire company." Again, it seems to be a part of the culture that they just look after themselves. There are many of that race that are actually very hard working and break any kind of generalisation, and I would always treat each person as an individual while looking at them for recruitment, but most people will say even having that generalisation that is 9 times out of 10 true is racist in itself.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Well, "racism" isn't new to humanity. Judging people, jalousy, envy and other things of that nature is what's made "our" species of homo-sapiens evolve to the place we are today. We didn't evolve from the hunting man in the cave, we evolved from the man that clubbed the hunters and stole their food. Same reasons why wars happen today, greed or "need" of natural resources and so on.

[Noomz]

Intentionally or unintentional does not change it from being racist. It's as simple as, people got offended and did something about it, while if there was a characature with bad teeth, you'd have an avenue to do the same. What I don't understand, if someone finds it offensive and you change the name, why not take the change at face value as an attempt by the candy maker to sell their product to as many people as possible? I would think it would be in the best interest of any product to avoid scrutiny or get press from fixing it, in order to sell more product.

A victim of phisicsl harm due to racism, in two different countries for two different reasons. One resulted in being a refugee and the other in the only injury that ever required a cast that I ever had. Oh and I'm white, the perpetrators were all white as well. I am just a Jew and than an immigrant...

What is culture if not always changing? Culture is what it is because of the changes that happened to the country. It's grasping to a figment of what culture was, while fighting what it has become.

If we are to cave in to everything people are offended about, we're never gonna stop whining.
That brand of candy had been the same for several decades and all of a sudden, someone acts offended about it. We shouldn't bend to anyone that has the ability to complain.

The difference is that the british analogy I made is to show that no-one would actually call that racism, because I think that most Brits have enough of a sense of humor to look at it as the joke that it is intended to be.

There's a difference between humor and exhaggerated stereotypes, and blatant racism.

I agree, culture is ever changing. But change for the sake of change, is not good. That minorities get the amount of influence they do is undemocratic. Much like muslims in my own country. You can call anything that works against you to be racist, and that's what I think is happening, and that is what I object to.

[Chrispotter]

Black guys love chicken and watermelon too, but only racists focus on the "crime and drugs" side. Respect our coloured friends for they have truly seen the light, Chicken and watermelon is a good diet.

[Felya]

The only point I was trying to make is that as a mixed guy, you can piss off both sides. I never called them racist, it was just weird to me that they considered it offensive of me (mixed) to call my friend (black) a N-word, the reason being me not being.. black enough. That's just stupid, won't you agree? They used it all the time in our heated discussion. Clearly, it wasn't intolerance over the word but over a half black, half white guy using it.

Yeah, just like you can piss of anyone by screaming obscenities at your friend. Walk by a sinagage and scream to your friend 'your so cheap'. You could be Jewish, but will still piss people off. Not because of who you are or what you are, but because of the obscenities you scream. The reason you got in trouble is because you said something. If you said it and was black, it changes the context of what you said. In either regard, you are running away from personal responsobility involved in screaming obscenities and are focused on race.

I'm not trying to justify the usage of the word at all, since I usually don't use it myself and don't see to many reasons to do so, but since it happened, it kept me wondering: How black must one be to be allowed to use such words? Where is the line drawn? Are all people just stupid?

It really depends on the individual who hears it. The line is drawn by the individual who hears you using the term. If you use the word, you have to deal with consequences from those who hear it, not society. Your friend doesn't care, so his line is set there. The people who heard you, but don't know you, are different from your friend. People are not stupid, we have a unique trait of being both, self absorbed and lacking self awareness.

[rowaasr13]

Typical "WANTED" poster in pretty much every Russian police precinct. Text under demotivator repeats popular political tolerant slogan "crime have no nationality", while all faces and first last/names on the poster are clearly of so-called "people of Caucasian nationality" (here it doesn't mean "white" as in rest of the world, but highlanders of real Caucas).

[Noomz]

The problem in the UK at the moment is the aparent lack of distinction between "Racism" and "Generalisation". People tend to use the former for negative traits and the latter for positive but this is not how they should be. Generalisation is very important, racism is not.

If you say "black men are generally more athletic than white men", it's a generalisation sure, but is it racist? It's not denying that there could be white people more athletic than black people, but it's saying a general pattern.

I honestly believe you can generalise a LOT about people from different cultures based on cultural differences, work ethics etc. There are things in built into cultures that you come across SO readily that if you overlook such clear patterns it can be very counterproductive and some times possibly even quite dangerous.

In this country, people say things like "Indians and Polish people are hard working and dedicated." In my experience, especially with Indians, 9/10 times they're BLOODY hard working and very fast and efficient. It's just a cultural work ethic. But I won't hire based on Race because not all Indians are the same, everyone is an individual and can break any petterns of their society and culture.

Now if I said "another race, who'll currently go nameless, are mostly lazy bullshitters that lie about their skills, pass as much of their work onto others as possible, and promote unskilled people of their own race above other races at the detriment of even the entire company." Again, it seems to be a part of the culture that they just look after themselves. There are many of that race that are actually very hard working and break any kind of generalisation, and I would always treat each person as an individual while looking at them for recruitment, but most people will say even having that generalisation that is 9 times out of 10 true is racist in itself.

Exactly. Even if generalizations talk about physical traits, I think people choose to make it negative and think it's racism. That's what I mean, people need to relax a bit and be able to joke about themselves.

[Deleted]

Wait a minute, let's see if i've got this right.

White person calls a black person some names - Racism
Black person calls a white person some names - Reverse racism, he isn't at fault.

Does being a white person mean I have to either get on with everybody or keep my opinions to myself or risk being classed as a racist?(which is fine) But others can voice opinions about me and can get away with it?

Let me offer my view on the points i listed above.

White person calls a black person some names - Racism
Black person calls a white person some names - Racism (nothing to do with reverse racism, it's just racism).

I might have completely overlooked the meaning and I apologise if I have.

[rogueMatthias]

Does being a white person mean I have to either get on with everybody or keep my opinions to myself or risk being classed as a racist?(which is fine) But others can voice opinions about me and can get away with it?

Nah, just lie and say that you're Jewish and then you can be as racist as you want and it doesn't count. You will have to keep mentioning that you're Jewish regularly though for this to work.

[Deleted]

Nah, just lie and say that you're Jewish and then you can be as racist as you want and it doesn't count. You will have to keep mentioning that you're Jewish regularly though for this to work.

"Why do you disagree with me? I'm a jew, are you Hitler?"

Win every single argument ever!

[devilbesideyou]

South Africa would like to disagree with you. Did you ever hear about all the trouble down in Africa that white people got some years ago? People got killed, their homes burned down etc, just because they were white and happened to have inherited large properties.

That you cannot be racist against white people is a ridiculous notion. I find it quite offensive that you think I'm a powerabusing, hatemongering and intolerant person just because I'm white.

---------- Post added 2013-01-28 at 04:43 PM ----------



I don't think anyone here says you aren't allowed pride in your heritage. Personally, I think it's regretable that we segregate such pride and heritage by the color of our skin, that we can't feel pride for things as what we are: One big human race. I think a black man should be able to be as proud of anything a white man is proud of, and such.

I believe you are a good person - especially when it seems you've taken the time to think about it deeply. But what I am actually getting at is that you are the product of a white-privileged society. You did not ask for it, but privileged was given to you simply by being born as white. I do not know you personally and do not know what personal struggles you have come across, but in the majority of the world (and I use majority carefully here as you clearly point out something happening in Sth Africa which I'm not aware of), being born as a white kid will mean an easier life.

So let me repeat myself - you may not be a powerabusing, hatemongering, intolerant person, but the benefactor of a system which gave whites the upper hand for hundreds of years. This makes the system racist, and you the benefactor from this. This is the distinction, have a think about this.

[FrozenFlames]

Being a 'little' racist now and then is only normal and in human nature. However people can go (too) far in this and this is bad, imo.

[Felya]

If we are to cave in to everything people are offended about, we're never gonna stop whining.
That brand of candy had been the same for several decades and all of a sudden, someone acts offended about it. We shouldn't bend to anyone that has the ability to complain.

Because the name of a candy is more important than offending someone? Who cares what the candy is called, the point is to sell the candy. The more people, even if a few, don't buy your candy, the less sales you have. Do you think the point of the candy maker to sell candy or something else?

The difference is that the british analogy I made is to show that no-one would actually call that racism, because I think that most Brits have enough of a sense of humor to look at it as the joke that it is intended to be.

So, your example is based on an assumption, that at best leaves the door for few to find it offensive, just like in your candy example? Most, still doesn't mean all, nor does your assumption mean reality.

There's a difference between humor and exhaggerated stereotypes, and blatant racism.

Yes, that's perspective.

I agree, culture is ever changing. But change for the sake of change, is not good. That minorities get the amount of influence they do is undemocratic. Much like muslims in my own country. You can call anything that works against you to be racist, and that's what I think is happening, and that is what I object to.

But, changing for the sake of not offending, is not changing for the sake of changing. It's changing to conform to your current population. These people, as few of them as there might be, that are part of your current culture. If these people were simply your fellow country men and not Muslim, your opinion would eat it's own tail.

[Ebildays]

The only point I was trying to make is that as a mixed guy, you can piss off both sides. I never called them racist, it was just weird to me that they considered it offensive of me (mixed) to call my friend (black) a N-word, the reason being me not being.. black enough. That's just stupid, won't you agree? They used it all the time in our heated discussion. Clearly, it wasn't intolerance over the word but over a half black, half white guy using it.

I'm not trying to justify the usage of the word at all, since I usually don't use it myself and don't see to many reasons to do so, but since it happened, it kept me wondering: How black must one be to be allowed to use such words? Where is the line drawn? Are all people just stupid?

I don't know how it is over in Germany but in America as black people coloring is very important. Some black people don't like darker skinned black people, while others don't like lighter skinned black people. My granddad was the darkest out of all of his father's( who was mixed) children and he was told he was too black to get an education and made to work in the fields. For the most part light skinned black have always been seen as better because they are closer to white but that does not just go for black people but brown people all over. Having white skin is seen as the peak of beauty.

[Lethey Alexandros]

I was not born racist and infact I grew up a rather accepting person however my experiences with other ethnic groups have left me racist. Even while trying t be nice, I was looked down by other ethnic groups for being white. I was called names and berated for something that happened well before my time and well before the times of the people who insulted me.

From my experience, black people(More along the lines a certain N word) and Mexicans are far more racist than a white person ever thought of being so they bring it on them selfs. Does this mean I refse to associate with them? Of course not, Black People, yes Black people I will gladly hang out with. One of my good frinds is a black person. My girl friend is Hispanic. Unfortuinately Mexicans or Cholos and that dreaded N word out number the decent people among their races and vastly skew the view of them as people and it is those people I am racist against.

[Itisamuh]

As long as you don't treat anyone worse because of it, then it really doesn't matter. Some people literally go as far as to say that if you aren't attracted to people of a certain race, you're racist, and that's just stupid. Also, I don't think noticing patterns in gang violence and whatnot, and being wary because of it makes you a racist. That's being a realist. But don't expect much support on these boards, though. They're extremely close minded about different views.