Racism against white people : is it possible?

[Cybran]

White people are allowed to show pride in their race when appropriate. The problem is since they are the majority demographic in most of western civilization, they look like assholes when they do. Black (most) people love when we see white people excel at something our culture is known for. Look at Eminem for instance, the man is loved by black people who don't even listen to rap because he color lines and damn good at what he does. Even on a more personal level, know cares when a white person says they are representing for white people when its something they aren't known for. I see it all the time. Its when its something they are know for (say "white" history) that people get offended because a) a lot of the history of white people features white people exploiting minorities and b)its seems cocky and like your saying white people are superior since the majority of western history is "white" history with little mention of the history of other minorities. Its hard to understand why white people would want a "white pride" group without them looking like bigots when western society and western culture is literally modeled around white people.

This is not what i mean. What you said about Eminem also doesn't mean much. "White rappers" including him have been seen as a joke by mainstream for decades.





"White rappers" were seen as stealing the culture/heritage of someone else. You know that is true.

People in the thread say "Your grandparents exploited people so you have to suck it up and take positive discrimination. But don't you dare say your grandparents also achieved amazing things you have nothing to do with those". You see what i mean with double standards? If we are going to judge people people by the fabric of their character, then lets be consistent about it.

[Deleted]

White is a race, so it's possible.

[Booshman]

This is not what i mean. What you said about Eminem also doesn't mean much. "White rappers" including him have been seen as a joke by mainstream for decades.

"White rappers" were seen as stealing the culture/heritage of someone else. You know that is true.

People in the thread say "Your grandparents exploited people so you have to suck it up and take positive discrimination. But don't you dare say your grandparents also achieved amazing things you have nothing to do with those". You see what i mean with double standards? If we are going to judge people people by the fabric of their character, then be consistent about it.

Yea, because The Beastie Boys were seen as a joke, too? Oh wait, no. They were embraced like crazy by black folks, because they weren't god awful like Vanilla Ice and Marky Mark. "Oh, but what about non-rapping white musicians?", you might ask. Singers like Tina Marie were embraced more by black folks than a lot of black singers were. Don't talk about music, because you clearly don't know anything. The rest of your post is a strawman.

[PACOX]

So everything that went on Europe since the birth of the great civilisations of the past is nothing because it's "mainly based on exploiting minorities"?
Newsflash!! ALL human history is about one exploiting others. Or you seriously think the subsaharian civilisation were freedom and peace lovers?

I think this to be a VERY racist comment. And also very ignorant as in factually wrong.

Stay on subject. I'm talking about America, not world history. We don't even learn about Subsaharan civilizations. American history is all about pushing brown people off land and using all the other minorities for labor. That is why "white pride" is tainted.

You're grasping for straws.

---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 07:05 AM ----------

This is not what i mean. What you said about Eminem also doesn't mean much. "White rappers" including him have been seen as a joke by mainstream for decades.

"White rappers" were seen as stealing the culture/heritage of someone else. You know that is true.

People in the thread say "Your grandparents exploited people so you have to suck it up and take positive discrimination. But don't you dare say your grandparents also achieved amazing things you have nothing to do with those". You see what i mean with double standards? If we are going to judge people people by the fabric of their character, then be consistent about it.

"Mainstream" is dictated by white people. Eminem is definitely not seen as a joke within the black community. The only white rapper every consider to have been stealing from culture was Vanilla Ice, and that had more to do with him being fake. Remember the Beastie Boys?

You argument is without substance, no gets mad at a white person being proud of the great grandfather that came over on a boat and started from nothing. Never seen a black person scuff at Irish, German, Polish, etc pride because you know where they are coming from when they say it. Shit, a larger number of black people in America have a white ancestor anyway. "White pride" is usually parroted by bigots. When someone says they have "white pride" what are they referring to? How white people are responsible for the near extinction of Native Americans, exploitation of Asians, dislocation and cultural annihilation of African slaves? How they withheld basic human rights from minorities until the 1960s? When you use the term "white pride" you better be clear about what kind of pride you are expressing because again, it makes you look like a bigot.

[Deleted]

Stay on subject. I'm talking about America, not world history. We don't even learn about Subsaharan civilizations. American history is all about pushing brown people off land and using all the other minorities for labor. That is why "white pride" is tainted.

You're grasping for straws.

Hold on. First off the topic is white racism, not white racism in America.
You said it yourself, "most western civilisations".

You're not taught about African empires, as you're not taught about a lot of other things in the USA, and that's the norm. Everyone focuses mainly on their own history.
Also, excuse me but "white pride" is also about penicillin, radio, electricity and much much more
That'd be like me saying black pride is all about victimisation.

[Cybran]

Yea, because The Beastie Boys were seen as a joke, too? Oh wait, no. They were embraced like crazy by black folks, because they weren't god awful like Vanilla Ice and Marky Mark.

You are right. I didn't think about The Beastie Boys. But many others were ridiculed.

The rest of your post is a strawman.

How is it a straw man? Mall Security said "white people who look at the past and want to boost their self esteem are idiots" and many people in the thread say "look what white people have done in the past, you should be ashamed and keep AA in place".

[PizzaSHARK]

"White rappers" were seen as stealing the culture/heritage of someone else. You know that is true.

Completely disagree. Just like with blues and jazz, it's what's inside that determines whether or not you're good at it. Yeah, black folks came up with those phenomenal music genres, but white folks have made very significant contributions to them as well.

[PACOX]

Hold on. First off the topic is white racism, not white racism in America.
You said it yourself, "most western civilisations".

You're not taught about African empires, as you're not taught about a lot of other things in the USA, and that's the norm. Everyone focuses mainly on their own history.
Also, excuse me but "white pride" is also about penicillin, radio, electricity and much much more
That'd be like me saying black pride is all about victimisation.

What other country has such a big problem with racism, if not America. We've been using America as the focal point for the last 40 pages...

The "norm" is the problem. American is a diverse country but our history lessons are dictated by one group of people and downplayed as "the greater good". Like earlier when I made reference to the importance of Asians when America was pioneering the western half of the country. The impact of Asians are written out of most grade school history books. Little is taught about black people in the US outside of slavery and then (according to some opinion in the thread) supposed to be okay about that. Mexicans were treated like the Asians, even after some of them suddenly found themselves on US soil after land grabs. The Irish were treated like shit and only were cut a break because they could blend in with white people when race was being used to treat black people as subhuman. The Native Americans were wiped out and learn almost nothing of them pass that they existed and we took their land, ironically a lot of Americans have a least one Native ancestor somewhere down the line. So when you look at the history of white people in America and how they related to the rest of Americans, its difficult to see "white pride" as anything else than bigotry. Not that white people should feel bad, but if you're going to use the term "white pride" be clear about it.

I'm trying to explain to you why people look like dicks when they go around crying about not being able to express "white pride". I've been doing that in my last couple of post. Yelling white pride is not the same as yelling Asian pride of black pride. For one, black people are trying to establish a cultural identity since we pretty much haven't had one of our own until the 1960s.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I knew a girl with one of those names, she has a high ranking government job.

Why are they ghetto names? Ghetto names because they are what "black" sounding? What about girls in the ghetto named "Serenity" are they better than girls named "Toynetta"

---------- Post added 2013-01-30 at 06:28 PM ----------



I am derailing? This shit has been derailed once everyone jumped on the "let's talk about blacks" train.

All you have done is derail. You took pages and pages to talk about yourself, how great you are, and how people are mean to you and whatnot.

---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 08:31 AM ----------

What other country has such a big problem with racism, if not America. We've been using America as the focal point for the last 40 pages...

The "norm" is the problem. American is a diverse country but our history lessons are dictated by one group of people and downplayed as "the greater good". Like earlier when I made reference to the importance of Asians when America was pioneering the western half of the country. The impact of Asians are written out of most grade school history books. Little is taught about black people in the US outside of slavery and then (according to some opinion in the thread) supposed to be okay about that. Mexicans were treated like the Asians, even after some of them suddenly found themselves on US soil after land grabs. The Irish were treated like shit and only were cut a break because they could blend in with white people when race was being used to treat black people as subhuman. The Native Americans were wiped out and learn almost nothing of them pass that they existed and we took their land, ironically a lot of Americans have a least one Native ancestor somewhere down the line. So when you look at the history of white people in America and how they related to the rest of Americans, its difficult to see "white pride" as anything else than bigotry. Not that white people should feel bad, but if you're going to use the term "white pride" be clear about it.

I'm trying to explain to you why people look like dicks when they go around crying about not being able to express "white pride". I've been doing that in my last couple of post. Yelling white pride is not the same as yelling Asian pride of black pride. For one, black people are trying to establish a cultural identity since we pretty much haven't had one of our own until the 1960s.

You never answered my question a long time ago. You say its okay for black people to call whites "white boy," do you think its okay for white people to call blacks "black boy"?

[vastx]

Yes, racism against white people is possible and rampant & acceptable by society at large. I can understand why blacks would be more insulted by it. And also effected by it. Though institutionalized racism is becoming a thing of the past.

So when a white comedian says something "flashy" and blacks get all bent out of shape, I can't really care too much. Suck it up.

[GG4Eva]

You are right. I didn't think about The Beastie Boys. But many others were ridiculed.

Do you listen to rap? This is far from the truth. The videos of you posted of Jim Carrey making fun of rappers doesn't mean anything. Jim Carrey has made fun of LOTS OF CELEBRITIES!! You're trying to tell me anytime a comedian has made a parody of a celebrity it is always seen as a bash. I'm pretty sure it's more for pure entertainment. Eminem was embraced by the black community, collaborating with tons of black artists. No where was are they near being ridiculed. Even in Eminem's movie 8 mile it included him basically beating a ton of blacks in rap battles in the community and being praised (Being he was probably one of the two white people in the room-based on a true story). I don't know where you are getting the idea of Eminem and other white rappers being ridiculed by other blacks.

Yes, racism against white people is possible and rampant & acceptable by society at large. I can understand why blacks would be more insulted by it. And also effected by it. Though institutionalized racism is becoming a thing of the past.

Institutionalized racism still exists. It happens to all different races. Racism is racism and it is still here. It hasn't magically been gone and I don't even know if it will ever be gone.

[anabolicz]

it's more racism vs white people than colored atm.. Yo respect me white boy im black... what did u call me? u aint gonna call no damn niggah black fool... imma pop a cap in you!

[vastx]

Do you listen to rap? This is far from the truth. The videos of you posted of Jim Carrey making fun of rappers doesn't mean anything. Jim Carrey has made fun of LOTS OF CELEBRITIES!! You're trying to tell me anytime a comedian has made a parody of a celebrity it is always seen as a bash. I'm pretty sure it's more for pure entertainment. Eminem and Vanilla Ice are embraced by the black community, collaborating with tons of black artists. No where was are they near being ridiculed. Even in Eminem's movie 8 mile it included him basically beating a ton of blacks in rap battles in the community and being praised (Being he was probably one of the two white people in the room-based on a true story). I don't know where you are getting the idea of Eminem and other white rappers being ridiculed by other blacks.

Yes, racism against white people is possible and rampant & acceptable by society at large. I can understand why blacks would be more insulted by it. And also effected by it. Though institutionalized racism is becoming a thing of the past.



Institutionalized racism still exists. It happens to all different races. Racism is racism and it is still here. It hasn't magically been gone and I don't even know if it will ever be gone.

I'm talking about the degree of institutionalized racism where people are prevented from bettering themselves or simply standing on equal ground. Yeah, it's still there, but it's a far shadow of what it once was.

[Themius]

All you have done is derail. You took pages and pages to talk about yourself, how great you are, and how people are mean to you and whatnot.

---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 08:31 AM ----------



You never answered my question a long time ago. You say its okay for black people to call whites "white boy," do you think its okay for white people to call blacks "black boy"?

All I did was derail? So you guys being a dick to me about my personal life is me derailing? Maybe one of you should have shut the fuck up about me? Then I wouldn't have had anything to respond, but I guess that was beyond your thinking capability.

---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 08:58 AM ----------

it's more racism vs white people than colored atm.. Yo respect me white boy im black... what did u call me? u aint gonna call no damn niggah black fool... imma pop a cap in you!

Really there are more people being racist to whites than "coloured"? That's a new one.

[GG4Eva]

I'm talking about the degree of institutionalized racism where people are prevented from bettering themselves or simply standing on equal ground. Yeah, it's still there, but it's a far shadow of what it once was.

I understanding that it is not out in the open as back in the day because it also doesn't happen in front of your eyes. I might be misunderstanding what you are saying (please tell me if I am), but you make it sound like since it isn't as more widespread as back in the day, it's not that bad that it's still here. All forms of racism is wrong against any race. I don't care if it doesn't happen as much as before, racism is evil.

Also reading posts back, I don't understand where people are getting the idea racism is human nature. Racism is a learned behavior. Even if you have the belief that racism is part of human nature, it is a weakness.

I was reading a thread on if racism is human nature and I liked this guy's post"

"It is natural to fear what is unknown. Not to hate what is different. Hatred of anything needs to be learned, it is a complex emotion. Fear can turn into hatred, but as Alexa says, it is a weakness.

As such though, at least in most Westernized countries, people of different skin tones are not unknown and racism is something most definitely learned, and now usually quite covert and not even identified by many harboring it.

Historically there is no evidence that upon one group of people initially running into another group of people, that there was any fear or hatred. The first American pilgrims got along fine with Native Americans for example, it was not until some saw an opportunity to take land, that a "hatred" was developed by many. The hatred was an excuse, the difference in physical appearance was an excuse that is, to gain. And it is the stupid and weak who have nothing to gain yet fall for prejudices anyway. Likewise, slavery was nothing more than free labor. It was for gain, and it was to excuse an injustice that the idea that this group of humans were somehow less human was first introduced.

Another example is children. Toddlers do not discriminate at all with whom they play with. They don't fear and don't segregate. If it were natural they would. It could be said I suppose that toddlers don't have the capacity yet to understand, and indeed it could be said they do stupid things all the time. But a toddler is perfectly capable of having developed other natural fears like heights or fire, yet still they do not fear those who are a different skin tone.

The argument that it is natural, which I have seen lately, is old. It is also not based on a bit of empirical evidence.

The odd thing about it now is that you see it more I think. I believe this is due to one thing. I think that the covert racism which replaced the apparent racism in the 70's and 80's is finally being exposed more.

I believe that many, upon reflection as was shown in the study documented in "The Color of Hate", who once saw themselves as not prejudiced, are discovering on some level that they are indeed.

The natural reaction any who have in their action or thought gone against what they believe overtly to be right, generally wish to excuse this action in one form or another.

Introducing the idea that perhaps it is natural, instead of something one has control over, is a comfortable response.

It is incorrect though.

Racism stems from greed, not ignorance or nature. It is spread through ignorance though. A white family on welfare will blame a black family on welfare for them being on welfare. Neither gains a thing.

Something is gained by convincing a poor white family living in a trailer park for example that a group of people are to blame for such a condition, and not a system or business or other entity in power.

Something is gained by blaming Mexicans for taking jobs. The reality is illegal immigration is down 67% since the 90's. And the lack of jobs is a systemic problem born of far more complex things like outsourcing, unfair trade practices, tax shelters and more. It is easier to blame a group of people, and as long as a group of people are blamed, those who benefit from both the cheap labor of illegal immigration, and those who benefit from the real villains of outsourcing and unfair trade, are safe.

Racism is not natural, but it is a tool used for power historically. Any who fall for it indeed are quite weak and very dumb. Any who instigate it for gain are simply evil."

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

All I did was derail? So you guys being a dick to me about my personal life is me derailing? Maybe one of you should have shut the fuck up about me? Then I wouldn't have had anything to respond, but I guess that was beyond your thinking capability.

---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 08:58 AM ----------



Really there are more people being racist to whites than "coloured"? That's a new one.

No, you started talking about yourself. You changed the subject. No one asked you about your personal life, you shoved it in our faces, and we called you out on your crap. Sorry.

[Cybran]

Do you listen to rap?

No. Never. I have seen some documentary about how if it wasn't for Dre no one would have ever heard of Eminem. Also his first mainstream songs were comical and basically a joke compared to the others at the time.

[GG4Eva]

No. Never. I have seen some documentary about how if it wasn't for Dre no one would have ever heard of Eminem. Also his first mainstream songs were comical and basically a joke compared to the others at the time.

Yes and that goes for many artists. Lots of people need to get connections before they are even heard. There are still many artists of all races who don't have their music out because they don't have that one connection. Not sure if you know Dr. Dre is black, could be wrong. Eminem's first mainstream songs that came out were comical because he made funny videos and dressed up in funny costumes, yet he still won tons of awards and even those songs were collaborated with other black rappers. Still, I never heard of blacks ridiculing him or pushing him away just because he was white.

[Rukentuts]

All I did was derail? So you guys being a dick to me about my personal life is me derailing? Maybe one of you should have shut the fuck up about me? Then I wouldn't have had anything to respond, but I guess that was beyond your thinking capability.

A dude unbeknownst of multiple definitions and supports discrimination, making insinuations about others' thinking capability; that's really rich.

[Deleted]

I understanding that it is not out in the open as back in the day because it also doesn't happen in front of your eyes. I might be misunderstanding what you are saying (please tell me if I am), but you make it sound like since it isn't as more widespread as back in the day, it's not that bad that it's still here. All forms of racism is wrong against any race. I don't care if it doesn't happen as much as before, racism is evil.

Also reading posts back, I don't understand where people are getting the idea racism is human nature. Racism is a learned behavior. Even if you have the belief that racism is part of human nature, it is a weakness.

I was reading a thread on if racism is human nature and I liked this guy's post"

"It is natural to fear what is unknown. Not to hate what is different. Hatred of anything needs to be learned, it is a complex emotion. Fear can turn into hatred, but as Alexa says, it is a weakness.

As such though, at least in most Westernized countries, people of different skin tones are not unknown and racism is something most definitely learned, and now usually quite covert and not even identified by many harboring it.

Historically there is no evidence that upon one group of people initially running into another group of people, that there was any fear or hatred. The first American pilgrims got along fine with Native Americans for example, it was not until some saw an opportunity to take land, that a "hatred" was developed by many. The hatred was an excuse, the difference in physical appearance was an excuse that is, to gain. And it is the stupid and weak who have nothing to gain yet fall for prejudices anyway. Likewise, slavery was nothing more than free labor. It was for gain, and it was to excuse an injustice that the idea that this group of humans were somehow less human was first introduced.

Another example is children. Toddlers do not discriminate at all with whom they play with. They don't fear and don't segregate. If it were natural they would. It could be said I suppose that toddlers don't have the capacity yet to understand, and indeed it could be said they do stupid things all the time. But a toddler is perfectly capable of having developed other natural fears like heights or fire, yet still they do not fear those who are a different skin tone.

The argument that it is natural, which I have seen lately, is old. It is also not based on a bit of empirical evidence.

The odd thing about it now is that you see it more I think. I believe this is due to one thing. I think that the covert racism which replaced the apparent racism in the 70's and 80's is finally being exposed more.

I believe that many, upon reflection as was shown in the study documented in "The Color of Hate", who once saw themselves as not prejudiced, are discovering on some level that they are indeed.

The natural reaction any who have in their action or thought gone against what they believe overtly to be right, generally wish to excuse this action in one form or another.

Introducing the idea that perhaps it is natural, instead of something one has control over, is a comfortable response.

It is incorrect though.

Racism stems from greed, not ignorance or nature. It is spread through ignorance though. A white family on welfare will blame a black family on welfare for them being on welfare. Neither gains a thing.

Something is gained by convincing a poor white family living in a trailer park for example that a group of people are to blame for such a condition, and not a system or business or other entity in power.

Something is gained by blaming Mexicans for taking jobs. The reality is illegal immigration is down 67% since the 90's. And the lack of jobs is a systemic problem born of far more complex things like outsourcing, unfair trade practices, tax shelters and more. It is easier to blame a group of people, and as long as a group of people are blamed, those who benefit from both the cheap labor of illegal immigration, and those who benefit from the real villains of outsourcing and unfair trade, are safe.

Racism is not natural, but it is a tool used for power historically. Any who fall for it indeed are quite weak and very dumb. Any who instigate it for gain are simply evil."

I would argue that hatred is not that complex, and fear-hatred-related racism is very present all around the world and is mainly what sparks the "oppressed vs oppressor" racism.
"I fear you cause you stole my land and I hate you because of that". There is no upper powers sparkling this feeling, it's sent through generations and has no economical benefit.

I agree on the economical aspect of racism, interesting point. And I can clearly see the mechanics in your post describing the "building up" of racism as a tool necessary to keep society as it was.
Those two kind of racism are clearly different between each other, but I can't get myself to think that one is "better" than the other. Or more "justified".
We live in a (in most cases) diverse enough society and a good education is achievable by anyone.
Falling victim of ignorance and fear (so hatred so racism) isn't justifiable at all nowadays.
Not up here in the west at least.