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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    To those suggesting a rogue soak swipe with feint, that doesn't work anymore. The attack is not considered AoE so the only reduction you get baseline is armor and can reduce it by 30% more with Elusiveness(imp feint). The days of rogues taking 1/2 damage from it are gone, they just get wrecked by it now.

    Besides, it's better to have a rogue on the legs/body.
    Straight up false info in terms of rogues not able to do this. I main a rogue and I tank Garalon on heroic every week.

  2. #42
    This was where our guild got stuck for a long time, too. I'd like to echo that you should use your tanks and healers to kite. Your DPS should jump dramatically from that just by having them all full-time on the boss. When your healers kite, make sure they don't get far enough away from the boss that they are unable to help heal, especially if you go with only two heals.

    Make sure you don't DPS the legs unless you are in the circle. Your lack of melee could be problematic, so make sure your most mobile ranged are running into the circles, then swapping to the legs, and leave everyone else on the body.

    Your non-tank kiters are eating a lot of Furious Swipes. Wait for the swipe, then swap.
    Last edited by Amuramie; 2013-02-01 at 04:35 PM. Reason: typo

  3. #43
    For normal, our alt 10 man had a frost DK in blood presence and a rogue soak/kite with ele. shaman and hunter kiting. Everyone else just rapes the boss. BL after the first kite gets going. We do the same thing for heroic.
    Healer comp is a holy pally(me) and a disc priest. I use hand of purification with this set up and clemency if we have cloth kiters. Execution sentence is good for kite healing as well.
    Last edited by Gsara; 2013-02-01 at 04:58 PM.

  4. #44
    In terms of moral, the solution is not as simple, but the big thing I've learned is that we as leaders cannot let the raid see that we are also frustrated. Have a private in-game channel with your BFF or officers and vent your frustration there. Don't let anyone else know you are stressed. Next night you go for it, act excited (even if you aren't), tell everyone you've been doing some research and you've got some new things for us to try. Be encouraging, quell negativity (with humor is best, by telling people not to be ducks if humor won't work), and after wipes give general praise for progress made (yeah, 54% on our first shot, good stuff!) or a mechanic handled well (nice job living through that double crush, guys! But let's make sure we don't let it happen again.) Remind everyone that the next few bosses aren't as bad and that after this one, you're moving onto tier tokens.

  5. #45
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    You could all get together on vent / mumble / TS 15 minutes prior to the raid and have everyone smoke a little green.

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  6. #46
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    Interesting, replies, maybe thats our issue, we are going 3 healers, 1 tank, 1 melee helps soak swipes, other 2 are frost dks on legs, ranged full time body got to 1% and enraged.

    When boss is so low, are we after dpsing body or legs ? People are confused, legs were called, body was called .....
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  7. #47
    Let me reiterate a point that we have to say to our raiders over and over again: ignore the enrage time and focus on mechanics.

    Once the mechanics are learned the DPS skyrockets. We hit berserk between 30% and 40% on heroic when we first tackled it. It was depressing. But slowly it gets whittled down to something manageable. And just one time or the other, you'll snag the kill. I've yet to find a fight where the enrage timer made the fight impossible for us. Just think of that timer as "do you understand the mechanics yet AS A RAID" timer.

    As for the morale (which is far more important IMO), you can take a tip from any range of raiding guilds (top world, top US, middle US, etc...): have as much fun as long as its easy. When you hit a wall, you put a lock on shenanigans and you shoot down insults ASAP. There is a huge difference between who hands out the criticism. If it's from the raid leader, it's viewed as "what I need to do to get this dead" but when it's from just a raider its viewed as "everyone in the guild must think this bad thing about me too". You get into people being defensive, making excuses MID PULL, arguments that tear at your guild.

    Also, it's possible to offer criticism without ever singling someone out: you'd be amazed how much easier "you guys need to do this" is to hear over "player A, you need to do this."

    Either way, it's time to put a lock down on yelling at each other and stick to ONE strat until it's dead. Don't extend your raid hours, call things on time, and allow for a couple breaks that last awhile (10 minutes is our usual number) for people to cool down or make a quick snack or something.

    Good luck!

    P.S. I don't know if you're guild does heroics but if it ever gets to this fight on heroic, it is of my opinion that it is easier than normal mode. You really are stuck on one of the fights that a lot of people get stuck on. Don't get frustrated thinking it's just you guys who can't get this down. It's a tough fight. Personal responsibility fights always are.
    Last edited by Pariah; 2013-02-02 at 08:50 AM.

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  8. #48
    If you can manage to kill the leg before the enrage, it's almost always better to switch. Though, if it's the wrong leg that spawns and the melee are not in range to get to it quickly, it can be dangerous to switch.
    Have one person assigned to this decision (it should be the raid leader). It's better if everybody follows him, even if he takes the wrong decision, than having people confused and not knowing what to do.

  9. #49
    This post pretty much described my guild also, thought you were on of my guildies posting :P We dont have a hunter though.

  10. #50
    Herald of the Titans Porimlys's Avatar
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    When we were first dealing with Garalon what made the difference was ignoring the outside legs. By this I mean the dps is standing in the middle of the room and is only dpsing the two legs that face the inside, since melee running to the outside legs ends up being a dps loss (and this way every time a leg respawns, it can be killed very quickely).

    At 10% and lower, just focus the boss.

  11. #51
    If it helps Wind Lord is piss easy compared so its like you'll get 2 kills in one night Similar to Will after Elegon
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    Derpkitteh (I typed this with a straight face!), you're being wholly unreasonable here.
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    You are full of shit.

  12. #52
    Most people have mentioned the points I wanted to mention but I recommend picking up a couple of hybrid DPS. Elemental Shamans, Spriests and Boomkins are extremely strong for raid utility while putting up great DPS if they are good.

    - Elemental. Good mobile DPS, extremely high burst cooldowns, stormlash totem, raid saving healing tide/ancestral guidance (when used correctly), offheals and selfheals, long duration and renew absorb shield. Having 2 heals + ele shaman that can pump out a few offheals here and there is life saving especially if the ele is kiting the pheromones.
    - Shadow. Strong defense cooldowns, multi-target and high burst, tranquility when having symbiosis, offheals with shields and Halo, mobile utility. Multi-dot is really good for garalon in addition to the offheals and high defense.
    - Boomkin. Massive burst on demand, multi-dotting, HoT offheals, tranquility, good mobility, good defense. Again like shadow, boomy is good for targeting both the legs and the body.

    The method that my guild uses is the following:
    - 2 healers with a couple of hybrid DPS
    - 2 tanks
    - 6 DPS, 2 melee on boss always, rest kiting
    - Start with a healer kiting, swaps to DPS in order, as elemental I keep myself alive during pheromone kiting to give healers a chance to focus on topping off the raid
    - Heroism at the start when everyone is in position for DPSing legs
    - A high sustained melee DPS class with average RNG like a frost DK is good here for getting the legs down
    - Coordinate your raid cooldowns with crush
    - Only stack pheromones to 18

  13. #53
    This was a brick wall for us as well and while skipping to Terrace will give a slight boost to gear, it does feel like giving up and honestly if you having that much trouble on Garalon, you will absolutely hit the same wall on Tsulong which is the 2nd boss in. The only difference being that if you have exceptional healers, they may be able to help you pull through. Chances are not good though since even during day, if your dps can't handle adds, that's just more dmg Tsulong will take and would require even more healing.

    Back to Garalon, I would suggest having a healer in the rotation, specifically the Holy Paladin. In fact, have him be the first one to pull since there's not much healing needed in the beginning anyways. If he gets caught in a cleave, not a huge deal, he's wearing plate + shield and he's able to bubble/bop him self. In fact even when he rotates out, I'd still stick him in near the front, have him focus tanks, plus kiter and only spot heal the raid while the other healer(s) handle the raid. Hell he could even be one of the soakers and just heal himself and the other soaker if it really came down to it.

    Try having the tanks switch to dps gear and focus on front legs and specifically the front outside since dps will have trouble reaching it. The only leg you'll probably have trouble with then is the rear outside.

    Normal is phase-less and once you get the pheromone transitions and kiting, you have the fight. With that said, I would suggest stacking healers, go 3 or even 4 until your transitions are spot on, no accidental crushes, etc. everything running clockwork until you consistently hit enrage with no other issue. At that point it's just a matter of dropping healers and upping dps. That last bit should be easy unless your dps are just lazy or inept.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by PHsname View Post
    Try going to Terrace and working on Protectors. It's very easy if you're not going for Elite. Clearing farm first can also help a bit.

    did they remove the gate? last I checked you cannot get into terrace without a full clear of HOF which means completing much more than Garalon.
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  15. #55
    If possible you should probably 1 tank or 2 heal the fight, however it can be done with 2 tanks and 3 healers, though it is not easier. If you are having problems with the enrage. Here are the best tips I can give you.

    1. Pets always on the boss, never legs.
    2. Never dps a leg unless you are inside the circle. If you are outside a circle dps the boss.
    3. Maximize dps on the boss not on the legs.

    The most common wiper in a raid group is focusing to much on the legs. The second more casual raid group in my guild was wiping on the enrage on garalon a few months ago on about 15-25%. I joined their group on my alt to guide them, I made some quick changes and 2 pulls later he was dead 20 seconds before the enrage.

    The absolutely best strategy for progressing guild I would say is using 1 tank an 3 healers. ( If you can handle it go 2 healers but safer progress with 3 ).
    Use your 3 healers + a ranged dps with good moving dps to kite. Using tanks to kite is retarded if you are wiping on enrage as tanks lose far more dps than a ranged by kiting and does not really take less damage.

    Now, depending on your group make up, I am gonna presume for a second that you got standard 2 melees, but with a tank changing you maybe got 3 melees which is even easier. If you got only 1 melee you maybe have to make a ranged into a "melee".

    The goal of the fight will be simple. First decide if you kite him counter clockwise or clockwise. The back leg that is closest to the wall ( Left leg if kiting clockwise and right leg if kiting counter clockwise ) will NEVER be killed. Do not ever ever dps it.

    During the pull, melees kill the 2 front legs. Ranged have split focus, maximizing damage on the boss but they also try to kill the other back leg (the one towards the centre of the room) Though ranged should only dps the leg if they are inside the circle, if they are outside dps the boss.

    After the first 3 legs are dead.
    Ranged - ALWAYS on the boss. Ranged should not even multi dot the legs unless it is the back leg towards the center if they can get inside the circle without losing boss dps.
    Melee - Keep those legs down, but maximize dps on the boss while the 2 front + the inner back leg is down.

    If melees fall behind, ranged could help on the inner back leg. If you only have 2 melee dps + 1 tank (1 of the melees being "tank") that single melee will have hard time killing the inner back leg but if you have 2 melees, 1 tank and 1 melee dps "tank", it shouldn't be a problem.

    The main point of this is, if you kill legs faster, they won't respawn faster. There is a "cap" on how much % of the boss can be killed by killing legs. So if you are keeping legs down and are wiping on say 10%, that is 10% of the boss healths that needs to come from the boss himself. Killing legs faster won't make the boss die faster.
    Not dpsing the outer back leg will make 66% of the legs spawn in the front, easier access for melees and will cause the outer back leg to never spawn (duh) which is the worst leg for dpsers.

    Also, if you are running with 3 healers, healers can help dpsing when healing is low. Usually after healing people up after a stomp.
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  16. #56
    Our group comp:

    Tanks: DK and Warrior
    Healers: Shaman and Paladin
    Melee DPS: Warrior, Rogue, Monk
    Ranged DPS: Shaman, Druid, Warlock

    For kiters, it's the lock, druid, shaman, then prot warrior. When prot warrior comes out to kite, our fury warrior steps in to eat the cleaves with our DK tank. Melee DPS focus on the back 2 legs, then the boss when no legs are up; tanks work on the front two legs. Our ranged tunnel the boss.

    Biggest key for our setup is that our kiters don't go out of range of healers.

    @ OP, your comp is range heavy as others have indicated, which is a detriment on this fight since it is so melee friendly. You'll need to designate your more mobile ranged dps to follow along in the circles and focus on the legs.

    This fight took over a month for our guild to finally get past. The rest of HoF took 3 weeks, maybe? Same for Terrace. It's the cock block of the current tier.

  17. #57
    Ask a favor of a higher end guild and get one of their members in to carry your dps imo. When all else fails, get someone to help you first hand that has already been and done that which you havent. After the first kill everyone would have seen the light at the end and second kills are always so much easier even without the help of that same individual.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabbywabby View Post
    Hey guys!

    I've gotten some really helpful advice here before, so I'm back asking pretty please for some more.

    I am the guild leader and raid leader of a decent 10man group. My group got past the brick wall that is Elegon and now we're on our second brick wall, Garalon.

    My first concern is keeping up the raid moral. For 3 hours each week (our first night each week is for farm content 6/6 MSV and 2/6 HoF) we have been bashing our faces against Garalon. Because of this, tension has been running high, people are getting snappy, and the raid morale has taken a sharp decline. I try to keep things light hearted, but in the heat of the moment, we have people yelling at each other, etc. Is there anything more I can do to keep this run FUN while still downing bosses?

    The second question, would be for Garalon himself. We've tried several different strats. We've 2 tanked it/1 tanked it (plate dps soaking cleave), we've 2 healed it/3 healed it. We've done pheromone stacks to 20 and we've done them to 30. We've had all dps kite and then we've tried mixing dps and our plate healer kiting. This week, I think we'll try the tanks kiting.

    Our group make-up (for those with no interest in logs): Blood DK, Brewmaster Monk, Resto shaman, Holy paladin, Demo lock (me), Windwalker monk, 2 Fire mages, and a Survival Hunter. The 10th spot varies...sometimes it's another hunter, sometimes it's a dps dk, sometimes it's a warrior, sometimes a shadow priest. But we usually have all buffs.

    These are our logs from the week before last (I was unable to attend last week and I'm the one that runs logs, it's only half the raid because I DC'd and forgot to turn them back on). Here we were 2 healing, 3 dps kiting. Other than our major mess up (I didn't realize there had to be 4 kiters, lol), does anyone see anything fundamentally wrong?

    TL;DR - How can I keep raid morale up during wipefests? Any tips or tricks on Garalon? What strat did your group use to down him?

    Any advice will be greatly appreciated and thank you soooo so much in advance!

    First up. Garalon's a brick wall to a lot of guilds for a reason. The other two bosses before Queen aren't that bad and can be killed pretty quickly. Also, Garalon's buggy(lol) as hell. Even after beating him we still struggle some nights because he has a tendency to spin around and cleave behind him instead of the direction of the Pheremone'd person.

    Now our makeup was 1 tank (myself as a Brewmaster for the extra cd) 3 heals (a shaman helps) and mix leaning towards melee dps (2 hunters, spriest, 2 pallies and a frost dk).

    1)We did a 4 rotation with all three healers and myself kiting with stacks going up to 20. At 15 stacks you call out and a pally would use his Devo cd to reduce the damage from the Phermones.

    2)Use Hero at the start to burn down the legs for that first 12% and get ahead of the timer.

    3)A ret pally is actually a very good soaker with plenty of ways to reduce his damage and self heal while maintaining high dps.

    4)A WW monk's Touch of Karma is actually better used to reflect a pair of cleaves as long as he has faith in your healers to heal him through the crush.

    5)Don't skimp on the damage to Garalon's body. Most of our wipes were due to people spending most of their time running from leg to leg without doing enough damage to his body.

    6)All classes have personal cds that they tend to ignore in preference to doing dps. This fight encourages you to use any and all ways to keep yourself up.

    7)Most importantly remind your guild that this is SUPPOSED to be a cockblock. He is a straight up gear check and dps check. He's GOING to be tough to down, but the satisfaction from doing so will be great, even moreso by how easy the next one or two bosses will be.
    Last edited by RyanEX; 2013-02-20 at 07:25 PM.
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  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    did they remove the gate? last I checked you cannot get into terrace without a full clear of HOF which means completing much more than Garalon.
    If you can get one person to complete HoF, you can get the whole rest of the group into ToES by having that person zone in first. This is helpful if say you have a more progressed group in your guild or whatever.

  20. #60
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoxxusKT View Post
    Straight up false info in terms of rogues not able to do this. I main a rogue and I tank Garalon on heroic every week.
    Maybe you should read your combat logs more closely, or at all.
    The only reduction you get is from elusiveness, armor and glyphed cloak.

    Before you come back and say "Well I do it and I live so you are wrong." read this or do a google search, . It's working exactly as I described.

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