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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    What does my post have to do with twisting anything? Or using arbitrary numbers?
    Your numbers are arbitrary because they are based on conjecture and not fact. You don't work for Blizzard so I will take their word over a jaded bitter player any day.

  2. #262
    Clicked on this topic just to report it for trolling...

    get a life people
    ...Made it through 9 years of wow...

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Taftvalue View Post
    Wrong, I want WoW to be successful and thus I like high subscription numbers. If numbers drop, Blizzard has less money, less money means a decrease of quality.
    Because putting out a crappy product simply because there are less people buying it is a solid business plan right?

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Your numbers are arbitrary because they are based on conjecture and not fact. You don't work for Blizzard so I will take their word over a jaded bitter player any day.
    I still don't even know what numbers I used to state any facts or evidence. All I said is what I'm predicting and am more than happy for it to be wrong.

    I also don't even understand where I came off as jaded or bitter, especially since I stated I still do find enjoyment in the game.

    If anyone is twisting...

  5. #265
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Because putting out a crappy product simply because there are less people buying it is a solid business plan right?
    No, but if you have less resources, your product's quality will inevitably suffer.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    You can't honestly believe broken balance in PvP is a good thing can you? I don't think anyone can honestly say PvP is balanced right now and mean it. Same goes for classes in a PvE setting.
    Unbalanced PvP is universal when it comes to MMOs.
    And for the PvE setting it's really all opinionated.
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  7. #267
    Legendary! MasterHamster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taftvalue View Post
    Wrong, I want WoW to be successful and thus I like high subscription numbers. If numbers drop, Blizzard has less money, less money means a decrease of quality.
    I meant that it doesn't matter how subs changed, it'll be twisted to claim the game is getting worse regardless.

    Someone doesn't like the new raids. No matter how the sub numbers will change he can twist those numbers into an argument about declining quality.

    You can't honestly believe broken balance in PvP is a good thing can you? I don't think anyone can honestly say PvP is balanced right now and mean it. Same goes for classes in a PvE setting.
    Name one point in the game's history when PvP balance wasn't broken :3
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  8. #268
    I predict that subs are up, I base this on the fact that two people I know have come back to WoW. I feel WoW is very busy atm, I have queues on my server in the evenings and have massive lag in Org.

  9. #269
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blapis View Post
    9 million by Blizzard (which actually means 5.5 million without lies).

    Based on http://wow.realmpop.com/

    EU: 2,921,261 Characters from level 86-90 (many of them alts, and some of them already unsubbed)
    US: 2,663,053 Characters from level 86-90 (many of them alts, and some of them already unsubbed)
    Mmhm, because you know that 4 million accounts reported do not in fact exist...
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  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post

    Name one point in the game's history when PvP balance wasn't broken :3
    I find it funny you try and make that point knowing full well it's a strawman, and even me insisting perfect balance is impossible. However Balance was much closer in the game's history, than it is now.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    I find it funny you try and make that point knowing full well it's a strawman, and even me insisting perfect balance is impossible. However Balance was much closer in the game's history, than it is now.
    And can you give clear factual evidence to support your claim?
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  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    And can you give clear factual evidence to support your claim?
    That balance has been better in previous installments? Yes.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...5?page=51#1020

    Ghostcrawler acknowledges the poor balancing of the expansion and tried to adjust it, but it fell through because a certain class/spec might become overpowered due to it. He basically says "The path we're on isn't a good path in terms of design" by saying:

    We think the continual arms race between instant spells, silences and silence immunity isn't good for the long term health of PvP. It is a shift we still plan to make, but we don't think patch 5.2 is the right time to make it.
    OR

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2551279 where Ghostcrawler admits the race between short CD interrupts vs casted spells and countering it by adding in more instant spells isn't great design, which lead to his current stance on it.

    People didn't complain about the absurd amount of interrupts so much in BC/Wrath, and casters without all of these instant huge damaging spells or moving while casting played just fine then.

    So yes, there are sources to back up my claim about PvP currently going to hell in a hand basket.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldfingaz View Post
    That balance has been better in previous installments? Yes.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...5?page=51#1020

    Ghostcrawler acknowledges the poor balancing of the expansion and tried to adjust it, but it fell through because a certain class/spec might become overpowered due to it. He basically says "The path we're on isn't a good path in terms of design" by saying:



    OR

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2551279 where Ghostcrawler admits the race between short CD interrupts vs casted spells and countering it by adding in more instant spells isn't great design, which lead to his current stance on it.
    No where in Ghostcrawler's post says that PvP balance is worse than past installments. You are twisting the words of the Blue.
    Goodbye-Forever-MMO-Champ
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Alleria's whispers start climaxing

  14. #274
    If subscriptions do not decline, then I am massively out of touch with what gamers find entertaining these days. That is certainly a possibility, and I guess it doesn't bother me if it turns out to be true.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    No where in Ghostcrawler's post says that PvP balance is worse than past installments. You are twisting the words of the Blue.
    No, you just can't comprehend the information.

    March 2011 Ghostcrawler states they needed to add more instant spells to combat the increase in interrupts on short CDs.

    January 2013 Ghostcrawler states the increased in instants is bad game design.

    Which therefor means it's worse than before. Their added change made things worse and now they're looking into reverting it without completely messing with some people's gameplay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    He acknowledges that there are problems in balance now.
    And there will always be balance-issues in an MMO.
    The claim was that balance used to be a lot better
    Read above and don't get too smug.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by mosely View Post
    If subscriptions do not decline, then I am massively out of touch with what gamers find entertaining these days. That is certainly a possibility, and I guess it doesn't bother me if it turns out to be true.
    Unfortunately I think many people on these forums are going to be extremely disappointed when the new numbers are released and it turns out Wow's inevitable death isn't happening as soon as they hoped.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    Why didn't he consider China? Are there still people who think there's 9-10 million players in the US/EU alone?
    IF they're true (I highly doubt it) they miss, China and Korea.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    I would advise you to reread that article, because that's the opposite of what he is saying.

    If you’re worried about being interrupted because someone is chasing you, or you are chasing them, that’s a great time to use an instant spell. But actual 2.5 sec cast time spells need to have their place too and, if anything, they should be the norm.

    He says that the arms-race isn't good for the health of PvP.

    Basically, it comes down to this:
    2011: Casted spells should be used, but it's hard to balance them versus Instant-casts and interrupts.
    2013: People are using too many instant-casts and we want them to use more casted spells.

    They didn't change their plan at all, it's still the same: To find a sweet spot where spells are worth casting, even when they might get interrupted.
    The problems, according to the, were this:
    1) Interrupts were too powerful.
    2) It's either not worth it to try to cast a spell OR it's too powerful when you succeed.
    3) Instant-casts are used too much compared to casted spells.
    Some people's children...

    You want more proof that it's further imbalanced currently than it was before? Apparently showing you posts saying "We need more instant spells" and then "We need less instant spells" isn't good enough, so here are some stats for you:

    http://www.arenastats.com/index.php?...any&mt=5&mg=20

    May 2012, 3v3 teams at any rating. Look at the percentages there. Alright, now set it to 2k, just for another reference point. RLS is between 20%-24% of the 3v3 teams. The next team in line at any rating is RMP at 17% (That is 20% vs 17%). The next team in line at 2k+ rating is RMP at 15% (That is 24% vs 15%).

    So any rating:
    RLS - 964 teams (20%)
    RMP - 833 teams (17%)

    At 2k+ rating:
    RLS - 264 teams (24%)
    RMP - 166 teams (15%)

    Now remember I gave you these teams as a reference point for the current season's numbers which can be found here: http://www.crossladder.com/arena/stats/

    Top team makeup: Warrior/Paladin/Hunter, second in line Mage/Priest/Druid

    The numbers:

    War/Pal/Hunt - 582 (8%)
    Mage/Priest/Druid - 265 (4%)

    If that doesn't scream imbalanced I don't know what does. Maybe by looking at both pages again and looking at class representation?

    Clarifications: Read the "About" on xLadder to find out how they get their information.

    EDIT: I should also note that arenastats.com is from Cataclysm, which was also horribly imbalanced as you can see by class representation.
    Last edited by Goldfingaz; 2013-02-03 at 05:44 PM.

  19. #279
    Legendary! Firebert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    WoW reached 12mil subs in the end of BC and dropped with the launch of WotLK only to reach 12 mil again with the China launch that was in a quarter where they had to announce the numbers so it was at that point official.

    The first hit for 12m subs was on the cusp of 2009, between patch 3.0.3 and 3.0.8 (both WotLK prep patches), and then hit 12m again around October 2010, patch 4.0.1, the Cataclysm prep patch.

    Pretty sure that made WotLK the best expansion ever. However, to those that think that subs are going to drop to 9m, the last time that happened was mid-2007: Patch 2.1.0 (the Black Temple) had only been out for a month.

    Was WoW dead during 2.1.0?
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  20. #280
    1) Most players are from China
    2) Number of players was counted at 1st of Jan, i.e. during holidays, when some players may return just because they have free time and nothing to do.

    What I want to say? I want to say, that Q4 2012 report will not show the real situation. Q1 2013 - may be.
    Sorry for my bad english.
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