Someone explain taxes to me

[Endus]

It's more a comment about the government using taxes as a means to redistribute wealth.

And it's ridiculous, because that's what taxes are for. It's like complaining about how the police keep arresting you for murdering people.

[CheeseSandwich]

"Hard times", no such thing. There's work for everyone but it takes some effort. The "poor" realise it's much better to resort to extortion. The poor are poor because they want to, expect no pity from me, i evade as much as i can.

(re; your avatar)
Sorry, but arent the Eels one of the poorest clubs in the NRL? Does that mean they WANT to be one of the poorest clubs in the NRL? Hard times can fall on anyone at any time, it is not right of you to judge anyone.

OT: What i want to know is, what is the point in giving tax BACK to people, Dont get me wrong, i dig it, but i wouldnt miss it if i didnt get it.

[Paranoid Android]

I don't care to get into a discussion about why those people don't pay taxes right now. The point is that the idea that we can't change our tax system because anyone who pays no net taxes cannot afford to and still survive is laughable. And your straw man about me watching Fox News is not worth the time to debunk, so enjoy your fabrication on that front.

So you dont care to talk about the real truth behind the so called 47% you would just rather rail agains them. Also if you are not watching Fox News you again are definately drinking the Kool-Aid of the extreme right of this country..aka Republicans and Tea Party. So again I don no think the problem is the 47 percent myth its people like you who come with wrong facts than when a person counters with actual facts the person does not want to debate those. That's what is sad.

[Magpai]

And it's ridiculous, because that's what taxes are for. It's like complaining about how the police keep arresting you for murdering people.

The purpose of taxes is to generate revenue for government services not to redistribute wealth. Geez...

[Kujako]

OT: What i want to know is, what is the point in giving tax BACK to people, Dont get me wrong, i dig it, but i wouldnt miss it if i didnt get it.

Again, the deductions from your paycheck are just an estimate. You can if you want, simply not have them take money out each money. Your taxes are not due till the end of the year, at which time the difference between what you've paid in and what you owe is dealt with.

[Magpai]

The ironic part is that the rich tend to pay a lower tax rate due to capital gains and a strong loby getting them write offs.

Lol I would love to see what you pay as a percentage of your income versus the same numbers from a rich person.

[Spectral]

Again, the deductions from your paycheck are just an estimate. You can if you want, simply not have them take money out each money. Your taxes are not due till the end of the year, at which time the difference between what you've paid in and what you owe is dealt with.

This isn't uniformly true; people receiving the EITC may receive a larger refund than what they paid, receiving a net negative tax rate.

[Endus]

The purpose of taxes is to generate revenue for government services not to redistribute wealth. Geez...

And what does the government do with said revenue? It redistributes it to necessary services. Some of those are social services.

The whole "redistribution of wealth" as a negative thing just boils down to people saying "I hate poor people and think they should be more bootstrappy like those heirs to fortunes I idolize".

[Kujako]

Lol I would love to see what you pay as a percentage of your income versus the same numbers from a rich person.

Sure, I pay around 30% while Mitt Romney pays around 15% (20% now that taxes have gone up) because his earnings are capital gains. And keep in mind that he can get tax credits for buying a private jet while I can't afford one.

[Mormolyce]

"From each according to his means" is not the only sensible system.

You need to cater your tax rates to the income of the taxpayers for two reasons - one is the manifest social injustice of the poor paying more than the rich (taken to extremes this leads to social tension, uprisings and other civic disturbances), the other probably more important reason is that it's totally stupid spending a lot of time and effort to squeeze a few extra bucks out of the poor when the rich are squirrelling away billions. You'd probably spend more money than you'd even make with all the legal and law enforcement costs.

[Rhyseh]

This is not true at all. At least in Australia, those with the lowest incomes also have the highest disposable income. I can see you thinking to yourself that it doesn't make sense, right?

Well, those that earn more also have bigger loans on properties, cars etc whereas those that are renting simply don't care about those things or saving or going on trips overseas (where it's basically "lost" since the government can't tax it and local employees don't get a share).

I think there's a wrong mentality that the government "takes" your money. You vote them in, you pay them, you use the infrastructure it provides. The government's money is YOUR money, it's basically forced saving.

You *could* argue that your politicians are being paid too much of your money, but that's another issue... (and unfortunately you don't get to vote on their pay).

That's completely incorrect and far too general. The highest income earners have the most disposable income in Australia:

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@....d%20wealth~193

The wealthy can afford to pay more tax, hence we pay more tax. Tax dollars are an essential element to the success and stability of a modern first world country. It's by no accident that the most prosperous and stable countries have some of the highest tax rates in the world for high income earners. Additionally the pricing of items and the size of your salary package is a direct result of your country of residences economical variables. A very large part of this is the tax rate for the rich.

You cannot simply look at a tax rate and say that they are taking more than their fare share from the Rich, when the Rich's income is largely influenced by economic variables.

[Mormolyce]

Actually the best taxation systems are the ones where the majority of the population feel that the system is fair. How that fairness is defined varies from country to country. Most commonly politics is about tinkering with that fairness, towards one favoured group or the other. Achieving a balance where most people feel its fair is actually a better outcome than aiming to fix the system in one direction or the other.

Unless of course you live in modern day US where the concept of fair is an endangered one and arguments are increasingly polarised about helping one side or the other and co-operation is increasingly seen as a betrayal of your side.

The majority of the population? Well if your country was 60% right handed and 40% left handed and the right handed people passed a law that only left handed people had to pay tax I bet they'd all think it was fair. BAM! Majority!

---------- Post added 2013-02-05 at 02:47 AM ----------

This is not true at all. At least in Australia, those with the lowest incomes also have the highest disposable income. I can see you thinking to yourself that it doesn't make sense, right?

You're right, it makes no sense at all. You can't say that spending money money on Alfa Romeos and caviar is not part of rich people's disposable income just because that's their car and food budget. They could live on less, they choose not to because they can afford to live the way they want.

I can't believe I'm actually having to explain this.

[Charge me Doctor]

buy your own god damn roads then.

Can you imagine standing on a crossroad and watching someone building his own road, driving over it, then removing xD

[Jaxsz]

Have you ever been poor? Like, properly poor? Where a safety net is required?

Sure - my mother used to use me to dive in dumpsters to get food for ourselves.

We did this because she used all her welfare money on drugs, and sold her foodstamps for drug money too.

It took her getting put in prison for her to turn her life around and now she is actually very successful - but letting people just suck at the teat indefinitely is not going to cause them to have any desire to really change their situation, in my opinion.

[Paranoid Android]

And what does the government do with said revenue? It redistributes it to necessary services. Some of those are social services.

The whole "redistribution of wealth" as a negative thing just boils down to people saying "I hate poor people and think they should be more bootstrappy like those heirs to fortunes I idolize".

The ironic thing is that maybe not the person you are replying to in these forums but like this person and others are not even millionaires. I'm sure they are just average joe who go to work everyday, make a living but the one side who caters to helping give the rich tax breaks, convince people that they are giving all their money to some poor slob sitting at home doing nothing with 70 inch HD flat screen playing video games while wearing expensive designer clothes.

[Orlong]

buy your own god damn roads then.

How about the people who pay very little to no taxes get to use the roads very little or not at all. Im sick of paying more , just so they can pay less money. I can spend my own money better than the government or the lazy can

[Charge me Doctor]

And to everyone who thinks that "everywhere i go is controlled by a government or a leader". We have Siberia here, in russia, it's huge, uninhabited, just come and live there, no one will wind you here.

[Magpai]

The whole "redistribution of wealth" as a negative thing just boils down to people saying "I hate poor people and think they should be more bootstrappy like those heirs to fortunes I idolize".

Lol, clearly I was wrong to ever take you seriously on this matter.

[Spectral]

How about the people who pay very little to no taxes get to use the roads very little or not at all. Im sick of paying more , just so they can pay less money.

If you're well off (which you seem to be stating here), you're already getting more out of your taxes than poor people are. Not in direct payment, but in the part where having nice shit relies on having a society in place.

I can spend my own money better than the government or the lazy can

I very much doubt this.

[Magpai]

one is the manifest social injustice of the poor paying more than the rich

This is the biggest load of bull in modern politics. The "poor", by any reasonable definition, pay nothing. ZERO. The rich pay a ton. Anyone who parrots this lie needs a reality check, or a lesson in integrity.