Someone explain taxes to me

[Kujako]

If your really wealthy you should be making most of your money from long term capital gains anyway....

Or you don't make your money, you just inherit it.

[Purlina]

Or you don't make your money, you just inherit it.

No reason why you shouldn't be investing your inheritance. It's why the rich only get richer. It would be a shame just to leave all that capital just wasting away in a bank.

[Daelak]

The definition of a first world country is the US and its allies during the cold war, just to be accurate. 2nd world is Russia and its allies, and 3rd world is everyone else. People have just grown accustomed to thinking of those terms in economic terms because there was a high correlation between wealth and first world vs. third world status. China, for example, is a second world country, as is Russia, the Ukraine, Estonia, etc.

Oh ok, that makes sense

[GreatSageCorban]

Government budgets and personal budgets aren't comparable. For example, you don't have the ability to borrow billions of dollars at 1% interest. If you could, it would undoubtedly be a good investment opportunity for you.

Second, how do you define waste? What percentage of the budget is currently consisting of waste?

If I could borrow billions of dollars at 1%, I think reinvestment into even a conservative plan of 3% return would be the right idea.

I define waste in several ways:
If we're spending 100 billion on defense but can only afford 80 billion, cut it. The same toward any social programs.
Or if we're spending 150 million to study bee farms while we're over budget. Cut entirely.
Or if we're buying X at 100 billion, when a private corp is buying/doing it for 20 billion. Cut it/out source it.

[Daelak]

If I could borrow billions of dollars at 1%, I think reinvestment into even a conservative plan of 3% return would be the right idea.

I define waste in several ways:
If we're spending 100 billion on defense but can only afford 80 billion, cut it. The same toward any social programs.
Or if we're spending 150 million to study bee farms while we're over budget. Cut entirely.

Haha, this is exactly what the federal government should do, we should have a 10 trillion dollar infrastructure INVESTMENT, that includes funds for states and municipalities, and trust me the ROI would be a lot better than 3%.

[Puremallace]

For those saying you pay more as you make more trying claiming single and 1 all year making less then 30,000 in 2012 being told I owe state taxes of 75$...only getting 22$ back from Federal and owe HR Block 107$.

^ If you want to know why some people start to fucking resent the US government that is why

[Endus]

For those saying you pay more as you make more trying claiming single and 1 all year making less then 30,000 in 2012 being told I owe state taxes of 75$...only getting 22$ back from Federal and owe HR Block 107$.

^ If you want to know why some people start to fucking resent the US government that is why

. . . because they didn't properly set up their deductions with their work and paid H&R block to do their taxes?

[Kujako]

For those saying you pay more as you make more trying claiming single and 1 all year making less then 30,000 in 2012 being told I owe state taxes of 75$...only getting 22$ back from Federal and owe HR Block 107$.

^ If you want to know why some people start to fucking resent the US government that is why

HRBlock only cost me 46$... and I own a house with all its accompanying paperwork. What's more, state taxes are a WHOLE other issue that has not really been covered here due to how much it varies. For example, your state taxes may include bond measures that where voted on after your witholdings where setup, thus increasing the amount you need to pay.

[Purlina]

If you don't get much back from the Federal return, that just means you where withholding the proper amount from your paychecks (Or you missed deductions).


Despite what people may think, the goal isn't to get the biggest amount back from the IRS. That just means you had poor planning and overpaid the government..


(If you get a HUGE refund check, that means you withheld too much.)

[Twotonsteak]

Fact: Poorer income earners pay a larger portion of their INCOME to state and federal taxes.

Fact: The wealthiest among us in the US, pay a smaller portion of their INCOME to state and federal taxes.

Fact: Giving tax breaks to the wealthiest among us has no affect on employment, larger GDP growth, or higher federal tax receipts.

Fact: Progressive taxation is the best way to create a healthy economy so that the 99% of wage earners have more money to spend on consumer goods. The wealthiest 1% do not have the consumer buying power as the vast majority does when acting in concert. Sales and excise taxes historically produce less revenue for states, and take large chunks out of the vast majority of wage-earners pockets, i.e. less to spend on consumer goods aka DEMAND. Regressive taxation policies, like the ones in the report posted above are inherently unstable and cause massive deficits and more reliance on funding from the federal government.

Fact:

You can cite all the facts you want. In the end it's like that song, "I can get you any result you like. What's it worth to you?" In reality, however, the more you make the more you pay. If you're poor, or working poor, you don't pay a dime at the end of the year. If you're middle-class or wealthy, you do. And how much you pay scales up with how much you make. That's just reality. You can rattle on all you want about tax rates. Bottom line is people who have money pay more.

[Reeve]

You can cite all the facts you want. In the end it's like that song, "I can get you any result you like. What's it worth to you?" In reality, however, the more you make the more you pay. If you're poor, or working poor, you don't pay a dime at the end of the year. If you're middle-class or wealthy, you do. And how much you pay scales up with how much you make. That's just reality. You can rattle on all you want about tax rates. Bottom line is people who have money pay more.

The poor pay plenty in terms of sales tax, property tax, and payroll tax.

[Purlina]

The poor pay plenty in terms of sales tax, property tax, and payroll tax.

Exactly! Income tax is progressive, but other taxes are regressive.

[Twotonsteak]

Government budgets and personal budgets aren't comparable. For example, you don't have the ability to borrow billions of dollars at 1% interest. If you could, it would undoubtedly be a good investment opportunity for you.

Second, how do you define waste? What percentage of the budget is currently consisting of waste?

1. All military basis on foreign soil should be closed. The US Military was designed to secure and protect our borders, not the borders of another nation half-way around the world.
2. Getting rid of this ponzi scheme called Social Security would also be nice. (I actually checked. The way Social Security is currently handled is almost exactly how a Ponzi Scheme is run.)
3. Secure our boarders. (I'd rather close them until we get "our house" in order, but I'm not unwilling to compromise.)
4. Fully investigate our welfare system for fraud. (Again I'd rather ditch the system totally, but I'll compromise.)
5. Shut down FEMA. It's underfunded and has been bailed out several times already.
6. Remove all Federal influence from the Post Office and Amtrak.
7. Stop giving aid to other countries until we, you know, can actually sustain our own spending.

Every one of the above is a waste of money. In some cases (FEMA, Amtrak) the system is poorly run and totally insolvent and has been for a long time. In others (foreign military bases) the purpose is not served. Still others (Social Security) are out-right illegal based on our laws.

Every one of those suggestions would save a LOT of money.

[Pitkanen]

You can cite all the facts you want. In the end it's like that song, "I can get you any result you like. What's it worth to you?" In reality, however, the more you make the more you pay. If you're poor, or working poor, you don't pay a dime at the end of the year. If you're middle-class or wealthy, you do. And how much you pay scales up with how much you make. That's just reality. You can rattle on all you want about tax rates. Bottom line is people who have money pay more.

Purchasing insurance is mandated by federal law in 2014. Payroll taxed can only be avoided by 401k's (which are for decently off people not scraping by), or by making more than 100k. People with insurance provided as part of their middle/upper class job don't have to pay taxes on that money (average families health care bill is 13k). Sales tax, property tax, payroll tax, insurance, lack of insurance/401k tax holidays, lack of money to be able to save for a downpayment to purchase a house to get the gov to pay for your morgage interest, lack of ability to claim capital gains rates on wages.

Talking about income tax alone is like trying to explain the how much space a gas will take up but only knowing temperature.

[Twotonsteak]

The poor pay plenty in terms of sales tax, property tax, and payroll tax.

I'd just like to point out that the Middle-Class (or wealthy, according to Obama's odd sense of math) also pay those taxes. They also pay more in Federal Income Taxes.

I can assure you that no matter how you twist and turn it. The answer will ALWAYS be that the more money you make the more taxes you pay.

[Tinykong]

Just finished preparing my taxes last night, and I owed (no joke) $.43 of tax. Rounded that down to zero, and for the first time in my adult life, I won the game. I didn't give the government an interest free loan for a year, and they wound up picking up my tab, however small it may be.

[Porcell]

For those saying you pay more as you make more trying claiming single and 1 all year making less then 30,000 in 2012 being told I owe state taxes of 75$...only getting 22$ back from Federal and owe HR Block 107$.

^ If you want to know why some people start to fucking resent the US government that is why

Would you feel better if you got back a $100 return from state and a $2000 return from Federal?

^ If you answer yes, then you don't understand how taxes work. The amount of taxes you pay per year is, in the end, a set number, irrespective of your deductions.

Example, if I make $60,000 per year then I owe the Federal Government $10000 in income tax and the State $1000 in income tax. Now, depending on how my exemptions are set, I could pay $1000 per month to the Feds and $100 per month to the state, paying $12k and $1.2k respectively, and get a tax return of $2k and $200. Yay, free money, right? Everyone loves a tax return!

Except it's not free money, all you did was loan the government $2200 over the course of the year, for free.

If you aren't getting a tax return, that means you are doing it right.

[Tilde]

If you aren't getting a tax return, that means you are doing it right.

But what if you intentionally want to give them an interest free loan?

[Paranoid Android]

[QUOTE=Endus;20109996]1> Wealthy people don't work any harder than anyone else.QUOTE]


It kills me poeople who think the wealthy work harder than the average person who may not be making a ton of money but goes to work everyday, especially lets say manual labor and break their butts everyday to make a living for them and their family.

Too many people have this grandious idea that one day they will become rich so if you keep taxes down for the rich you are really keeping taxes down for yourself because again you are dillusional that you will be wealthy one day. Hey success stories do happen but too many think its going to be them. Like this forum for people who fight to keep rich people's taxes down. So is this forum actually a place where alot of rich people come to voice their opinions? No. I think its more of the average joe working for a living who again have this dream that this will bet them some day so they have to fight for those low taxes.

Last thing about the wealthy work harder that's is nonsense is yes I'm sure they work crazy hours and their hard work got them to where they are today but when you finally become financially succesful your money makes you money. Again I'm talking about a pretty nice salary or earning of say a million dollars a year you really could live comfortable and have money left over that you can invest and live off just interests and investments. So yeah did Bill Gates or Warren Buffet work hard? Sure, but I think they could retire now or a long time ago and have the money they made and live off just that.

[Organoth]

the more you make the more the government takes, these are called "tax brackets" also you guys might have claimed different things on your w2, you could have claimed 1 for your self meaning the goverment will take less out of your check every week but you might end up having to pay in at the end of the year, he might have claimed 0 meaning alot taken out, but the biggest refund possible next year.

That's exactly what I do. I claim 0 and have never had a tax refund of less then $1000.