5.2 soj pvp

[Angelyka]

Whatever they do if snare effect is removed than it`s another "eye for eye" buff from blizz. They give u smth and they take smth.. so u end up fucked

[Vathius]

Seal of justice becomes the old seal of command ( bursty but fun )

Seal of Righteousness increases attack speed by 50%, and hits all in targets within 5 yards for 50% of the initial damage dealt, (consistent aoe white damage)

[Migrin]

Cool change. Sure it still going to be burst, but its not burst on a x-minute cooldown. Removing the slow suck a little though.

[Matrlx]

nice another Macro i should make - switching seals
but does this make our sustain dmg better ? arent we talking about making Ret more sustain less bursty

[Omaski]

The only way the SoJ change will be viable and synergized with divine purpose is if the debuff stacks are not consumed with each TV. if not, then Blizz will prolly change it to where stacks are consumed.

[Valedus]

The only way the SoJ change will be viable and synergized with divine purpose is if the debuff stacks are not consumed with each TV. if not, then Blizz will prolly change it to where stacks are consumed.

Why? That would be a good way to convince Ret to stop CD stacking so much in PvP. I'd welcome it.

[Tangra]

nice another Macro i should make - switching seals
but does this make our sustain dmg better ? arent we talking about making Ret more sustain less bursty

The main issue was burst outside of cooldowns, not sustained exactly. As Vangaurds has mentioned, Ret actually has perfectly fine sustained damage, the real problem was burst on a short cooldown. Most competitive specs have a nuke they can use every 30 sec or so, if not shorter.

[Palatinus]

More is revealed;

Paladin
Here is the current PTR Seal of Justice: Fills you with Holy Light, causing melee attacks (and Judgment) to apply Justice to your target. Justice: The attacking Paladin's next Templar's Verdict striking this target will also deal 25% weapon damage as Holy per application of Justice. Stacks up to 5 times. Lasts 15 sec. Undispellable. Using the TV consumes the stack. The Justice proc itself is not affected by mastery, nor is the mastery proc from TV counted for purposes of how hard Justice hits.

We understand the concern that this superficially looks a little like the old Taste for Blood. Taste for Blood was designed to be very random in order to limit the planning the warrior could do and limit its frequency. (It was also off the GCD, a buff rather than a debuff which made it feel even less predictable to the victim, and stackable with other big hits like Heroic Leap.) Justice is designed to be a very predictable mechanic in order to unload some decent damage even when GoaK and wings are on CD. Yes, it will be even bigger when stacked with CDs. Big hits that take a lot of planning and give their target plenty of notification and opportunities to counter are more acceptable than those that come out of the blue.

We also understand the concern that this forces paladins into taking Burden of Guilt if they want a snare. However, that is offset by the data that suggests some (but not all) paladins take Burden today (meaning the cost for taking it isn't too great), but hardly anyone uses the current Seal of Justice today; i.e. most Rets are running around with no snare at all.

On the other hand, if Ret still isn't going to use this new Justice, then there is no reason to change it, and we could just leave it as a dead spell for 5.2.

So it looks like additional damage from SoJ and the snare are both gone. The stacks disappear after a TV as well.

I don't like that last comment. Why even put that in? It really is a "This is what we've come up with, take it or leave it" - its stuff like that that makes people think he really dislikes ret?

Anyway...number crunch away people >.<

[Ulmita]

Extremely situational. As he said, truth will wield overall more dps(especially when there are multiple mobs that you can keep censure up), but this might worth using for hard switches in pvp or in periods of high burst damage in pve like when a boss takes increased damage for a sort amount of time (like wind lord after a pack of adds is down). Don't forget that we will need to waste 2 gcds for this, which is the damage of the attack lost + two holy power. I am thinking in a boss scenario where lust is popped on pull this might be actually the way to go as its only 1 wasted gcd (change back to truth).
Lastly, the way they implemented this, makes haste even better as the damage isn't affected by mastery but haste will determine how fast you get those 5 stacks.

[Deleted]

So it will basicly hit like a single target Divine storm.. which is only 25-30k on a PVE TARGET! - which i can get to 40k with cooldows stacked and inq up.- with all the new pvp gear that is available.. good job blizzard.. should hit for atleast 200-250%.. 125% is just not enough..

Basicly just another 15-20k increased damage on TV at 5 stacks.. underwhelming.. i must say.. i'll just stick with truth

[Bonkbonk100]

So it will basicly hit like a single target Divine storm.. which is only 25-30k on a PVE TARGET! - which i can get to 40k with cooldows stacked and inq up.- with all the new pvp gear that is available.. good job blizzard.. should hit for atleast 200-250%.. 125% is just not enough..

Basicly just another 15-20k increased damage on TV at 5 stacks.. underwhelming.. i must say.. i'll just stick with truth

What the hell..?

[Reith]

Extremely situational. As he said, truth will wield overall more dps(especially when there are multiple mobs that you can keep censure up), but this might worth using for hard switches in pvp or in periods of high burst damage in pve like when a boss takes increased damage for a sort amount of time (like wind lord after a pack of adds is down). Don't forget that we will need to waste 2 gcds for this, which is the damage of the attack lost + two holy power. I am thinking in a boss scenario where lust is popped on pull this might be actually the way to go as its only 1 wasted gcd (change back to truth).
Lastly, the way they implemented this, makes haste even better as the damage isn't affected by mastery but haste will determine how fast you get those 5 stacks.

How will it work in hard switches? It's a debuff that does not transfer. It also sounds like it's not really enough damage.

[Nairobi]

If it really is, in fact, 0 passive damage (since I see no mention of the 16% wep dmg as holy in his post) AND no snare anymore, I'd suggest we take him up on his threat to "take it or leave it", cause this new iteration frankly sucks.

I've been posting trying to get clarification, but he seems of the verge of a Tseric-breakdown given his little outburst there, so maybe he's taking time to cool off.

That said, I really don't like the implication that this has for PVE, it sounds like we're going to have to seal twist (with seals on GCD) in order to max theoretical DPS, by keeping up censure, swapping to SOJ for a bit to stack Justice, smacking a TV, then back to censure. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

No thanks.

[nyc81991]

So it will basicly hit like a single target Divine storm.. which is only 25-30k on a PVE TARGET! - which i can get to 40k with cooldows stacked and inq up.- with all the new pvp gear that is available.. good job blizzard.. should hit for atleast 200-250%.. 125% is just not enough..

Basicly just another 15-20k increased damage on TV at 5 stacks.. underwhelming.. i must say.. i'll just stick with truth

I think you read it wrong. It will be 125% more damage at 5 stacks, putting it at 400% weapon damage.

[Deleted]

I think you read it wrong. It will be 125% more damage at 5 stacks, putting it at 400% weapon damage.

Where do you see that?.. it doesn't say "additional" and he clearly says that "justice" is new spell that will deal the damage..

"The Justice proc itself is not affected by mastery, nor is the mastery proc from TV counted for purposes of how hard Justice hits."

[Ulmita]

How will it work in hard switches? It's a debuff that does not transfer. It also sounds like it's not really enough damage.

As he said truth is overall more sustained so assume you want to switch, you pop justice + goak, wait for the stacks (from goak) get 4 stacks of truth, pop wings and ha (if you speced into it) and unload? It will definitely be more burst / pressure no doubt about it than having censure.

I do agree though that is extremely situational and that it wont see much use. If it was affected by our mastery it would be a different story (/wishful thinking)

[Reith]

As he said truth is overall more sustained so assume you want to switch, you pop justice + goak, wait for the stacks (from goak) get 4 stacks of truth, pop wings and ha (if you speced into it) and unload? It will definitely be more burst / pressure no doubt about it than having censure.

I do agree though that is extremely situational and that it wont see much use. If it was affected by our mastery it would be a different story (/wishful thinking)

Oh that might interact with our T15 4-piece, and they haven't gotten around to nerfing that to the ground yet, so it might actually look like they want to improve Ret if they actually tacked it onto Templar's Verdict itself.

[Icecold3000]

That said, I really don't like the implication that this has for PVE, it sounds like we're going to have to seal twist (with seals on GCD) in order to max theoretical DPS, by keeping up censure, swapping to SOJ for a bit to stack Justice, smacking a TV, then back to censure. Rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

No thanks.

Yep you have a point here. Sounds like a Seal Roulette xD .
Unless Seal of Truth becomes exclusively for PvE purpose, and New Seal of Justice would be relegated to a PvP seal due to its' harder hitting TV`s.

I wanted back my Old SoR from Woltk , the proc was fairly weak to being with , but we use it this seal for its' strong judgement damage.

[Lethora]

I think you read it wrong. It will be 125% more damage at 5 stacks, putting it at 400% weapon damage.

edit: Nvm, was reading it wrong.

[gildra]

what if the 5 stack justice also could be used for instant repentance? I saw some people in this thread saying the slow might be gone so if that's true, you can choose between a shorter cooldown stun which is always reliable, an instant repentance or a slow.
without the slow you have less damage but more cc and vica versa