LCS Thread

[Deleted]

i never said that was the only choice, you can chose to not ban them out, ive watched a few games from ogn where c9 has even said they draw inspiration from, break away from the brusier/tank top tank jungle plenty of teams in ogn go carrys in everylane do something to catch them off gaurd, this current game they have elise ashe and zyra, bust out the rengar jungle and wreck havoc on them. go akali do something that they arent going to expect.

In other words "Just outplay them". C9 are not some one-trick pony with a single, strong strategy that falls apart when other teams figure it out leaving them with nothing; they are not limited by their champion pool either so you can't ban them out. There is one way to beat them: play better. No shortcuts such as countering the one and only strategy or taking their champions away, opponents have to simply play better, from the champion select to the last hit on the nexus... and apparently entire NA LCS is a league below them, at the very least, and thus incapable of doing so.

It's funny to see nearly everyone with W:L ratio below 50%, all thanks to C9's 91%. ^.^

[Thallidomaniac]

Damn, Kerp busting out the Top Lane Karma. And Creaton's back!

[Deleted]

I don't get it... Czaru picks Karthus with Teleport, uses none of the global pressure in first 20 minutes. Only Requiem went off during a full-on teamfight.

[bobsmith06]

Im just saying they can be beat people just arent breaking away from the same picks that are always picked, i was watching westrice stream his pax qualifiers and his exact words were, "sometimes you have to go full retard to break the meta"

I think we can all agree that the lcs' champion pool is very low and limited break away from that

[bobsmith06]

i dont see how not taking jayce or kennen and taking someone with less team fight potential and more individual reliace for the team is breaking away jayce kennen thresh sona rumble jarvin zac elise tf shen are all either picked or banned in every single lcs game. if you dont see this is as an issue then i dont know what to say.

[Jeleh]

Breaking away and trying new stuff tends to have poor results at first. Teams cant afford to throw away games this late in the season.

C9 can; I really hope that now they have secured first place with like 5 games to go that they pull out some crazy comps.

[Duilliath]

I don't get it... Czaru picks Karthus with Teleport, uses none of the global pressure in first 20 minutes. Only Requiem went off during a full-on teamfight.

He always run Teleport. He could be running Teemo mid and would still go Teleport.

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i dont see how not taking jayce or kennen and taking someone with less team fight potential and more individual reliace for the team is breaking away jayce kennen thresh sona rumble jarvin zac elise tf shen are all either picked or banned in every single lcs game. if you dont see this is as an issue then i dont know what to say.

Try resaying it, because I have no clue what you are trying to say. It's just a huge run-on sentence with a bunch of names in there.

[Deleted]

He always run Teleport. He could be running Teemo mid and would still go Teleport.

I know he always does, but he also tends to make some use of it. Here? Global pressure champion with a global pressure summoner... And used neither of those. :/

It's getting harder and harder to cheer for MyM. They started awesome, but soon enough it went awry.

[Drikkink]

LD's loss actually looked like Mithy's fault. He was caught waaaaay too much

[bobsmith06]

He always run Teleport. He could be running Teemo mid and would still go Teleport.

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Try resaying it, because I have no clue what you are trying to say. It's just a huge run-on sentence with a bunch of names in there.

yeah i was just waking up

What i was trying to say is that, the same champions are picked over and over again, because of what they bring to a team fight.

There is no reason each team cannot pick a lane or player on their team that can play a champ not from what aoe or what not do i bring to the team fight. Which is why rumble kennen shen sona thresh etc are always taken. I cannot think of a rational reason to not allow the top or mid lane champ to play a snowball champion that can neutralize targets before the fights even start.

[Deleted]

There is no reason each team cannot pick a lane or player on their team that can play a champ not from what aoe or what not do i bring to the team fight. Which is why rumble kennen shen sona thresh etc are always taken. I cannot think of a rational reason to not allow the top or mid lane champ to play a snowball champion that can neutralize targets before the fights even start.

Because no one ever does that and assassins like Zed and Ahri never see any use.

[bobsmith06]

Because no one ever does that and assassins like Zed and Ahri never see any use.

are ahri and zed the only assassins in game? no they arent rengar khazix fizz akali, hell even kat could see some play

[Deleted]

are ahri and zed the only assassins in game? no they arent rengar khazix fizz akali, hell even kat could see some play

K6 sees play from time to time, so does Fizz. Akali is sub-par compared to other options, so is Kat. I think I saw Rengar in LCS, but he offers less than other assassins. I said "assassins LIKE Zed and Ahri", it means I don't exactly feel like listing out every single similar champion picked lately.
I don't get what are you trying to say: assassins are picked very often, just as often as teamfight heavy compositions. Incorporating assassins in the team strat is nothing foreign to both NA and EU... And I don't see how is it a novel strategy that'll bring C9 down.

[bobsmith06]

to further this point, what good is zed other then split pushing and his death mark on the target? when every adc gets a QSS and just removes it and every mage just zhonyas the damage after wards?

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K6 sees play from time to time, so does Fizz. Akali is sub-par compared to other options, so is Kat. I think I saw Rengar in LCS, but he offers less than other assassins. I don't get what are you trying to say: assassins are picked very often, just as often as teamfight heavy compositions. Incorporating assassins in the team strat is nothing foreign to both NA and EU... And I don't see how is it a novel strategy that'll bring C9 down.

im not saying assasins are the only thing needed, but when c9 has even said them selves they draw inspiration from ogn, look at the team comps they use. most games they dont even take a tank.

its just like when turtle joined tsm last split people didnt know how he played compared to chaox, and they were able to profit off of it. once people think how to play against c9 they wont be so untouchable, again im not saying assassins are needed im just saying. that clearly the current limited pool of champions that are used in na lcs isnt cutting it.

[Deleted]

"Once people think how to play against c9 they will no longer be untouchable", is that so? It's taking a mighty long time though, they're 21:2 W:L and no matter how bad the games start they always push for the victory with superior control, by simply outplaying the other team by a huge margin. 8 weeks and no one managed to get used to them, that's curious.

All you have said so far means one thing: someone needs to actually play better than them if they want to win, as neither banning out their comfort picks nor countering the one-trick pony strategy is a viable way to deal with C9. LCS champion pool is in no way "limited" - it's unavoidable that the superior champions are the ones getting picked all the time and it has nothing to do with lacking flexibility.

[bobsmith06]

if the champion wasnt limited which i believe is, and you clearly dont, again your opinion we would see a more diverse selection during games would we not? and you mention nothing of the fact that what i had to say about zed was 100% true, every game c9 builds around team fights and keeping sneaky alive with balls dealing damage, i fail to see how picking the strongest link on your team to shut down either and or both before the crystal arrow goes out is even an issue

[Duilliath]

yeah i was just waking up

What i was trying to say is that, the same champions are picked over and over again, because of what they bring to a team fight.

There is no reason each team cannot pick a lane or player on their team that can play a champ not from what aoe or what not do i bring to the team fight. Which is why rumble kennen shen sona thresh etc are always taken. I cannot think of a rational reason to not allow the top or mid lane champ to play a snowball champion that can neutralize targets before the fights even start.

You are forgetting two things.

1) People play for a team comp, not all champs fit all team comps.
2) Players do not necessarily actually -play- a champ @ LCS level.

Even if they previously did, they may not necessarily still practise that champ. As the most clear example I can think of: Froggen's Anivia was on perma-ban status last season. The few times it did go through, he instantly showed why. This season, the times it did go through, he did not do nearly as well on her. She's no longer even banned against him and he still picks difference champions.

That's part of the reason why you see so many abysmal Twisted Fates. Why practise a champion if he's banned out anyway? It's part of the reason why we saw the Soaz / Yellowstar swap. Soaz plays Blitzcrank, Yellowstar plays Shen.

3) c9 does not -need- to swap like that. Hai and Balls can both play either solo lane and their championpool is deep enough that they can not be banned out. Sneaky has played Ashe, Draven, Twitch and Ezreal, which means that you're not going to ban him out. Not a single one of them can be banned out.

That means that they have got replacement champions for their team composition, team fighting and game objectives, whatever you ban out or pick away (Zed and Rumble for example both have been on the other team).

4) Other teams can not pull off the same things as easily as C9. The Ashe/Zyra combo has been used by others. Whereas c9 gets away with not using nearly as many wards, the other team (forgot which it was) was nowhere near practised enough to go without vision and got caught out.

--

This means the whole thing boils down to 'play better than them', which is pretty damn hard. Even if a single lane loses (Balls went 0/5 just the other day and it's not the first time), other lanes will win and they will make up for it with the very first teamfight.

//sidenote: The overall champion picks in LCS are actually pretty high. Sure, there's a number of them that show up in most every game, but looking at the champions that have been used, it's a surprising amount.

Even Karma has now seen use 3 times (2 times in jungle, 1 in top lane).

Other than a few select champions (notably Heimerdinger / Teemo), nearly everything is up for grabs.

[Drikkink]

You are forgetting two things.

1) People play for a team comp, not all champs fit all team comps.
2) Players do not necessarily actually -play- a champ @ LCS level.

Even if they previously did, they may not necessarily still practise that champ. As the most clear example I can think of: Froggen's Anivia was on perma-ban status last season. The few times it did go through, he instantly showed why. This season, the times it did go through, he did not do nearly as well on her. She's no longer even banned against him and he still picks difference champions.

That's part of the reason why you see so many abysmal Twisted Fates. Why practise a champion if he's banned out anyway? It's part of the reason why we saw the Soaz / Yellowstar swap. Soaz plays Blitzcrank, Yellowstar plays Shen.

3) c9 does not -need- to swap like that. Hai and Balls can both play either solo lane and their championpool is deep enough that they can not be banned out. Sneaky has played Ashe, Draven, Twitch and Ezreal, which means that you're not going to ban him out. Not a single one of them can be banned out.

That means that they have got replacement champions for their team composition, team fighting and game objectives, whatever you ban out or pick away (Zed and Rumble for example both have been on the other team).

4) Other teams can not pull off the same things as easily as C9. The Ashe/Zyra combo has been used by others. Whereas c9 gets away with not using nearly as many wards, the other team (forgot which it was) was nowhere near practised enough to go without vision and got caught out.

--

This means the whole thing boils down to 'play better than them', which is pretty damn hard. Even if a single lane loses (Balls went 0/5 just the other day and it's not the first time), other lanes will win and they will make up for it with the very first teamfight.

//sidenote: The overall champion picks in LCS are actually pretty high. Sure, there's a number of them that show up in most every game, but looking at the champions that have been used, it's a surprising amount.

Even Karma has now seen use 3 times (2 times in jungle, 1 in top lane).

Other than a few select champions (notably Heimerdinger / Teemo), nearly everything is up for grabs.

I haven't seen quite a few champions actually selected, particularly APs. I have seen a few hovered over, but not taken (Anivia, Annie, Veigar, etc).

Also, Fanatic made a horrible call at champ select.

[Deleted]

In other words "Just outplay them". C9 are not some one-trick pony with a single, strong strategy that falls apart when other teams figure it out leaving them with nothing; they are not limited by their champion pool either so you can't ban them out. There is one way to beat them: play better. No shortcuts such as countering the one and only strategy or taking their champions away, opponents have to simply play better, from the champion select to the last hit on the nexus... and apparently entire NA LCS is a league below them, at the very least, and thus incapable of doing so.

It's funny to see nearly everyone with W:L ratio below 50%, all thanks to C9's 91%. ^.^

Well i actually think they are a one trick pony most games where like, pick strong duelist champs like shen/zed/rumble/kennen or ryze and just split push sometimes even two lanes at the same time, what you do against that tactic, go to deal with split push? they just push with 3 members other lane, you cant just send one to deal with it he might lose against strong duelist. so they get pushed in, lose control over dragon/jungle/buffs and lose ofc. I personally think that because of the big lead cloud9 now has, the other teams kind of have given up beating them and are not even trying. the key would be to be aggressive during whole game, much roaming to get an early game, denie them buffs/dragon... most of the time the NA teams seems all to scared to engage or commit to fight, someone is getting caught out because of no control of jungle and then the rest of the team is on the run. Thats why zyra ashe comb should be banned out against them, because they stun, they ult one guy goes down and the other team runs away.

[Deleted]

Sigh Gambit losing again...
Stop making me sad guys :c