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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    How come all those other MMOs fizzle at 2-3 million and then trickle down? Oh..could it be because the listen to the forums where people screamed: "We hate this and that about WoW and go try sth totally new"? Well..LFRaid or LFD hasn't been done before. Funny there are always hate threads about that.
    Ever heard of the words "Successful IP"?
    How about WoW having a 15+ years of background in this universe? Blizzard + Warcraft = many people would buy/play this just because of that combination.

    Ever heard of the fiasco called Diablo 3? Any idea why it sold 12 million (!!!) copies? Because of the IP. What does the number of sales have to do with the quality of the game? Nothing, the game sucks balls and that's admitted by a huge part of the community. Bye bye, Jay Wilson, anyone?

    So can people please stop with the crap about numbers? Hell, RIFT probably has 0.5 mil subs and is still rocking their niche. WoW appeals to the mainstream community. Sad but true. Justin Bieber has the highest viewcount in Youtube. Do you listen to Justin Bieber and do those 500 mil views equal q uality music? Please....

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by ElvenArcher View Post
    WHAT

    EVER.

    4 expansions and 90% of new content gets finished in a month, followed by 3-4 months of grinding static bosses which have no effect on the world itself and offer no sense of danger to the player.

    WHAT.

    EVER.

    People like you probably defended tape casettes because CDs and DVDs meant re-buying all your collection.


    WHAT.


    EVER!!
    Cassettes fit in the back pocket of my jeans just fine and they didn't skip when moving the boom box. Those reasons enough made me hold out on buying a cd player until I bought my first stereo system for my car.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Being innovative doesn't mean it has to be new to the genre entirely. Those are features that were not found in World of Warcraft until now and they attract attention from players who enjoy that sort of thing.
    Clearly we are using two different definitions of Innovation:

    1: the introduction of something new
    2: a new idea, method, or device

    While you are using 1, and taking it quite specifically at that, I am using number 2, quite broadly. Using two different definitions for something in the same argument doesn't work, and under your definition you are right, under mine, I am right... so this is really a dispute that can't be settled unless one of us switches definitions, and I definitely am not going to change mine, because mine is what many customers look at when gaming. If WoW added Tetris to the game under the name 'Tartris', customers are going to look at that and realize that while it might be new to the game, it's definitely still Tetris, and definitely not new and innovative.

    Quote Originally Posted by SamR View Post
    What was innovative in launch condition WoW besides being much more casual friendly than all the other MMOs?
    You mean besides things like severe reduction in loading times (Used to be every zone change, sometimes even multiple within one city), instanced dungeons and raids (remember fighting for spots in X area so that your group could sit there and pull one mob at a time?), combat flow that was years ahead of its time (Hi, I'm going to auto-attack for 5 minutes til my one ability comes off cooldown.), Quests with real story behind it that had multiple single player games and books of lore behind them (Please go collect rat whiskers for no apparent reason, and do it 100 times so you can move to grinding other mobs instead), and so on, and so on? Even some of that casual friendly stuff you put out were real innovations at the time, such as graveyards and miniscule death penalties for instance, it never felt good dying and losing a level and hours or days worth of work. I remember spending 2 hours one night on Everquest just trying to get back to my corpse through loading screens and having to walk all the way there from the most convenient bind point (Plane of Knowledge). While the majority of the innovations in vanilla WoW were systems designs, they were designs that greatly influenced how you play the game, as opposed to LFD and LFR just making it so you don't have to look at trade chat or have an in game community in any degree, or CRZ giving small servers all the negatives of being on a large server with miniscule positives attached.

    I did notice you didn't even try to counter Burning Crusade bringing innovations into the game (and genre), and that's probably a smart move.

  4. #64
    best nerd rage in a while /clap

  5. #65
    It might kill them. I feel a decent number to people who quit do not intend to come back. Major changes may run off more subs who like something old and familiar.,

  6. #66
    The Insane apepi's Avatar
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    I can kill to try new things.
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  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Then we can conclude that you want Blizzard to do the impossible.
    Everything has been done already, the rest is all system-related innovation.
    You heard it here first folks. The almighty, omnipotent Kangodo has spoken. Nothing shall ever be invented ever again... ever.

  8. #68
    Herald of the Titans Orangetai420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElvenArcher View Post
    So what if it would allienate all these fossil players who live to reminiscence about the "good ole days", as if it were 20 years ago, what if it would change the PVP and PVE formula from grinding gear to just plain ole fun? Lose 7 million players? So what, WoW did fine its first years with only 1-2 million. Most MMOs would kill to have that kind of active player base. EVE only runs with a couple hundred thousand, yet it still runs great.

    Assume the devs did something to WoW like creating world events PVE instead of quests, assume they made Naval Combat PVP and removed arenas and focused on massive scale PVP BGs and world PVP objectives...
    I stopped reading there.
    MMO-C, home of the worst community on the internet.

  9. #69
    They've added a ton of things that were different with MOP. Even some of the things you suggested such as bosses attacking cities has happened a few times although I think they should do that more... then again if it was a common occurence it would probably get boring really fast.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulosio View Post
    bosses attacking cities has happened a few times
    Yeah, they do that when I kite rare mobs from the Vale to the Shrine, where they annihilate afk players with Blade Flurry and Rain Dance :P

  11. #71
    Banned Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    So you want them to put innovative stuff in it..
    But then attack them and rage if they put innovative stuff in it?
    The irony is delicious!
    Pet battles, innovative? Let's be honest here, it's a blatant, obvious way to kill time and occupy your OCD, and nothing more.

    Cross-realm zones? It's a good one from a technical POV, but does little to nothing to the gameplay itself. Yeah, now there are other players around, tagging my quest mobs, stealing my nodes, and camping my rare mobs. Yay. In essence, it brought more frustration than use, because there's still no reason to group and do stuff together, the other players are there just to give you an illusion of MMO.

    Scenarios? An amalgamation of a dungeon and a quest, it feels nice, but I personally had the feeling it had to be there since 2008.

    Other MMOs, even though they didn't make it, had really good ideas, which WoW ignored. The point is, WoW has become anti-social. You're locked in a bubble. You don't have to group with other players while leveling - you can basically play 1-90 as a singleplayer game. The world is static. Mobs wander around spawn points, waiting to be slaughtered. They never attack towns, they don't form roaming bands, they don't clash with each other for territorial control. Never does an NPC hunt you. WoW could take some lessons from Guild Wars 2 in grouping, shared effort, and dynamic world. Even though changes are cyclic in GW2, it is still a big step forward. Rift gave us invasions, a way for the world to invade your personal space, a way for the world to live. WoW is still almost the same game it was in 2006 in the core.

  12. #72
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    So...you want Blizzard to release and expansion or patch that basically turns it into an entire other game. At that point, it's not WOW, it's some other MMO in the warcraft universe (in regards to playstyle)
    Theron/Bloodwatcher 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

    I'm like M. Night fucking Shamylan.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by ElvenArcher View Post
    Makes bosses attack cities, take over towns, make players WANT to go out there and fight instead of queuing for instances for everything.
    Sounds like a crappy game.

  14. #74
    Bloodsail Admiral Nuvuk's Avatar
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    Going back to something that was already done is not the same as doing something different, and I am talking about vanilla wow by the way not other mmo's.
    Last edited by Nuvuk; 2013-02-09 at 09:44 AM.

  15. #75
    The Lightbringer Hanto's Avatar
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    I like the idea of regressing progress, to something that is older and been done already. That's totally new. While we're at it, let's just scrap this whole electricity thing and go back to candles. Old is the new new, according to the OP's logic.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    So...you want Blizzard to release and expansion or patch that basically turns it into an entire other game. At that point, it's not WOW, it's some other MMO in the warcraft universe (in regards to playstyle)
    Not to mention that would be completely impossible, seeing how it's a wonder they've done as much as they have considering how old the core game is. But people don't really seem to understand that you can't just change the coding like that. Newer games will implement new stuff much more easily because they can add them to the base game rather than bother around with OH WILL THIS LINE OF CODE BUG OUT EVERY OTHER ASPECT OF THE GAME EVER.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    If it's so easy to come up with things, than why are most proposed things in this thread "stolen" from other games?

    But let's just drop this..
    Your bias towards classic is obvious if you call "no loading time between zones" innovative and stuff like LFR not.
    It's because of the differences in effect on gameplay. Or are you one of those that never played games like Everquest, or just choose not to remember that game in any sort of detail at all? No loading times between zones also offered up never before seen options for exploration, observation, as well as the time saving component. I wouldn't forget that this also brought about the concept of leashing mobs, that didn't really exist beforehand, without borders mobs had to stop somewhere, where as in games beforehand they just chased until the target died or disappeared by leaving the zone. If you don't get what this means, it means that having no borders also had a direct impact in improving in game AI's. LFR just gives you a button to press instead of watching for a group on your own server. This isn't even going into the fact that no loading time between zones has no negative impact on anyone, while LFR is a further contributor to dissolving whatever sense of server community was left, on top of a handful of other viable concerns.

    TLDR: There is a difference between a convenience change and an innovative change in my eyes. A Swiss Army Knife is convenient, but I could have done without it and just carried around a knife, pliers, and a screwdriver instead. This is what LFR is. No borders is more along the lines of switching from a steam engine to the modern internal combustion engine.

    As far as my so called 'bias' towards classic... it just sounds like someone is mad that the original game actually had new and innovative things, where as most everything in the past 2 expansions is more of the same old or stolen from other games. All I am doing is giving credit where it is due, WoW didn't explode like it did because they just copied another game and threw a new face on it, proof of which even lies in the fact that every game trying to do that with WoW is not doing nearly as well.

  18. #78
    High Overlord Celar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cherb View Post
    While I agree with most of what you said, raiding, outside of the first kill or two, is not competitive. Competition requires you to have an opponent playing against you, which you do not when you raid. You kill npcs. You are not competing.
    That's your opninion

    @ op
    Im just happy it's not like it was in icc, or before that, or even worse where nobody cares about 10 mans, or 40 mans is the only option, or big bad ass bosses attack the cities, or big ''epic'' world fights of 100-200 people, cus honestly thats just boring gameplay in my eyes. I don't see how it's fun. I could strech myself to 25 mans if I had to, but no.

    They gave you big bad ass world bosses.

    Besides, they tried this back in cata (iirc?) and it was laggy as ****. Nobody could do anything near Stormwind.
    Last edited by Celar; 2013-02-09 at 10:34 AM.
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  19. #79
    The Lightbringer Bosen's Avatar
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    I like your ideas.

  20. #80
    I can't believe what I've read through 5 pages of bullshit. People actually saying that they would rather kill the same bosses with the same strategies and exactly the same pack pulls 50 times in a raid, over and over and over, than have bosses attack the places where you feel SAFE and make you band together in real time to actually defend something from a threat. No wonder WoW's gone to shit if blizzard listened to people like you on the forums. You're like those old folks who scream out how much they don't like change in the world, it's so pathetic.

    You people must be heart of the party when you go to one.

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