Disc Vs Holy 5.2

[Deleted]

You're really irritating. If people want to hold discussion based on which spec will be more viable or balanced next patch, let them do so. They're quite obviously not balanced at the moment, so I don't understand where your obnoxious comment stems from.

I think the point was that all specs are viable. The problem comes when people don't ask the question they actually mean. The OP asks : Disc is still the best specc for healing? what he ment judging by his comments after Which spec will get the most numbers with least effort. Thats his right to ask that but he didn't hence the replies.

[lizon]

The OP is referring to 5.2, not the current tier. If the answer is always the same, why bother posting? Clearly you've already settled on your conclusion. It's not your place to tell someone that they can't hold discussion on a similar topic.

It doesn't matter what patch it is. The answer is the same. There is nothing to discuss, nothing to debate, nothing to ponder over. Play what best fits for you. Case closed, end of story, have a nice day. You can ask the same question 10,000 times in 10,000 different ways and the answer you will receive each time is the same one. I hope that it gets through your thick skull at some point.

@OP

If you like reactive healing, making health bars go up after they went down, and having access to massive burst HPS when things go wrong go Holy. If you prefer to plan ahead before healing is needed, can proactively use cooldowns before bad stuff happens, and maintain solid timing of cooldowns and abilities to get the most out of your toolbox go Disc.

Play what best fits for you, and ignore anyone who says anything to the contrary.

[Danner]

This question probably stems from the days where it was perfectly normal and expected that one of the two healing specs was utterly incapable of doing its assigned role. In those days, this question is meaningful and important. But times have changed.

In patch 5.1 (after a long series of hotfixes) Blizzard ended up with the best status quo ever when it comes to healer balance. Sure, disc ended the tier with the 'OP' label, but Holy and all of the other healing specs could still do the job and ended up rather evenly matched. So this is my claim: because blizzard did their job in 5.1 (eventually), the question of which spec is the best just stopped being meaningful.

Indications so far does not seem to imply that this has changed in 5.2. Holy is largely unchanged. Disc is tweaked and some of the strongest mechanics undeniably received a nerf. But mostly this was just to remove the cheese tactics. I do not believe either spec will be useless in 5.2, and I believe your guild will not be gimping themselves by bringing you as a healer of either spec to any fight. That is my claim again: I believe blizzard hit the formula and will ensure that all six healer specs can heal all encounters, and within a reasonable margin of difference. There is a chance I may end up disappointed by putting that faith in Blizzard in this, but I believe that they will not deviate too far from the general success of healer balance in patch 5.1.

If so, the conclusion is simple. If you REALLY want to minmax everything, master both specs and swap on each encounter to the optimal spec. If you don't need to go that far, just pick whatever spec you enjoy. Unless you are a bleeding edge guild racing for world rankings, the choice should not matter.

---

The question of "who is stronger" no longer makes sense. Ask "who is stronger on fight X" if you have to ask, but if it is possible to give an one-word answer to "who is stronger", then blizzard has failed at balance. Unrelated, right now the answer is "disc, but it doesn't matter".

[Trigunflame]

Given that you can do 50k+ dps as you heal while playing Disc, it seems to be a pretty cut and dry answer IMO.

[HPLathus]

If your raid is bringing a Disc priest simply to smite the entire time, then your raid is bad and should just bring another dps.


A healer being able to do 50k DPS is pointless, if you are atonment spamming during feng AOE phases.. cool ur doing 50k DPS and healing single targets, but wow oh look. Nevermind the fact you could be absorbing 50% of the damage.


The cut and dry answer is this:


Holy: Better for RAW HEALING, BURST HEALING, MOBILE HEALING, ACTUAL HEALING. MORE RAW HEALING THEN DISC, LESS ABSORBS

Disc: BETTER FOR STOPPING DAMAGE, MITIGATING DAMAGE, PREVENTING DAMAGE. LESS RAW HEALING THEN HOLY, MORE ABSORBS.


As you can see, the playstyles are on an opposite polar axis. You play each spec based on what the fight needs/think you can do better with.



/THREAD



WTB less narrow minded priests on these forums

[Deleted]

It's a shame you can't understand what I am saying.


It's a known fact, either spec is viable. They are viable on different fights moreso then the other.


On heroic empress, theres a lot of burst aoe damage, so you would be disc.

Heroic Garalon, there is more consistant aoe damage so you would play holy.


I don't understand what is irritating about pointing out that each spec works differently depending on the fight, and neither is better then the other.

Its a known fact that either spec is viable? So is 5.2 out? Did I miss an email?

Asking for less narrow minded priests yet keeps putting /Thread... ironic?

[lizon]

Its a known fact that either spec is viable? So is 5.2 out? Did I miss an email?

Asking for less narrow minded priests yet keeps putting /Thread... ironic?

Both specs will always be viable at this point of the game's lifespan. The days when you had to be one or the other are dead. Both specs were viable in 5.0, both will be viable in 5.2, and they will be viable when the servers shut down for the last time.

[Deleted]

Wasnt that long ago we had emergency hotfixes because Holy was so woefully underpowered. I also still remember the farce of 4.2.

[ramennoodleking]

If your raid is bringing a Disc priest simply to smite the entire time, then your raid is bad and should just bring another dps.


A healer being able to do 50k DPS is pointless, if you are atonment spamming during feng AOE phases.. cool ur doing 50k DPS and healing single targets, but wow oh look. Nevermind the fact you could be absorbing 50% of the damage.


The cut and dry answer is this:


Holy: Better for RAW HEALING, BURST HEALING, MOBILE HEALING, ACTUAL HEALING. MORE RAW HEALING THEN DISC, LESS ABSORBS

Disc: BETTER FOR STOPPING DAMAGE, MITIGATING DAMAGE, PREVENTING DAMAGE. LESS RAW HEALING THEN HOLY, MORE ABSORBS.


As you can see, the playstyles are on an opposite polar axis. You play each spec based on what the fight needs/think you can do better with.



/THREAD



WTB less narrow minded priests on these forums

I find it funny you mention others being narrowminded, because you are one of the worst. I'll never forget how clueless you were a few months ago, at least it seems you are grasping this class better now.

However, bringing a disc in ten mans JUST to atonement heal was a perfectly viable strat in early progression on garajal, and still is for guilds who are just now starting on it. For that matter, as disc there are potently opportunities in most fights a use a very healthy amount of atonement heals in between spirit shells.

You need to chill the fuck out, there are better ways to state your point without coming across as a __________.

There's a little mad lib there, fill it in with your favorite adjective.

[Deleted]

The changes done doesnt seem break any of the speccs, they just doesnt seem to be that radical and since both work fine to extremely well at the moment (depending on the situation) they will both still be viable. This in in addition to what has been stated several times over, they are good at diffrent things and diffrent types of bosses. Even if one of the speccs appears to be much stronger they still will have thier niches. I would say that especially disc which works very will with other types of healers would keep its niche, that might be because I know disc priest more and know what to do in diffrent situations much better with it though.

Whats more someones argument that 5.2 hasnt been released yet and we therefore cannot say anything about, if that is true it can only mean that the thread should be left alone until it has, not that you should continue to challenge the claims filling the thread with posts getting nowhere. I.e. thats a /thread until the release if anything.

[Ethas]

If your raid is bringing a Disc priest simply to smite the entire time, then your raid is bad and should just bring another dps.


A healer being able to do 50k DPS is pointless, if you are atonment spamming during feng AOE phases.. cool ur doing 50k DPS and healing single targets, but wow oh look. Nevermind the fact you could be absorbing 50% of the damage.


The cut and dry answer is this:


Holy: Better for RAW HEALING, BURST HEALING, MOBILE HEALING, ACTUAL HEALING. MORE RAW HEALING THEN DISC, LESS ABSORBS

Disc: BETTER FOR STOPPING DAMAGE, MITIGATING DAMAGE, PREVENTING DAMAGE. LESS RAW HEALING THEN HOLY, MORE ABSORBS.


As you can see, the playstyles are on an opposite polar axis. You play each spec based on what the fight needs/think you can do better with.



/THREAD



WTB less narrow minded priests on these forums

Dude you really have to calm yourself. Thread wont be closed if you post more /thread and caps words. In fact it makes your arguments look childish.

[Blachshma]

This question probably stems from the days where it was perfectly normal and expected that one of the two healing specs was utterly incapable of doing its assigned role. In those days, this question is meaningful and important. But times have changed.

In patch 5.1 (after a long series of hotfixes) Blizzard ended up with the best status quo ever when it comes to healer balance. Sure, disc ended the tier with the 'OP' label, but Holy and all of the other healing specs could still do the job and ended up rather evenly matched. So this is my claim: because blizzard did their job in 5.1 (eventually), the question of which spec is the best just stopped being meaningful.

Indications so far does not seem to imply that this has changed in 5.2. Holy is largely unchanged. Disc is tweaked and some of the strongest mechanics undeniably received a nerf. But mostly this was just to remove the cheese tactics. I do not believe either spec will be useless in 5.2, and I believe your guild will not be gimping themselves by bringing you as a healer of either spec to any fight. That is my claim again: I believe blizzard hit the formula and will ensure that all six healer specs can heal all encounters, and within a reasonable margin of difference. There is a chance I may end up disappointed by putting that faith in Blizzard in this, but I believe that they will not deviate too far from the general success of healer balance in patch 5.1.

If so, the conclusion is simple. If you REALLY want to minmax everything, master both specs and swap on each encounter to the optimal spec. If you don't need to go that far, just pick whatever spec you enjoy. Unless you are a bleeding edge guild racing for world rankings, the choice should not matter.

---

The question of "who is stronger" no longer makes sense. Ask "who is stronger on fight X" if you have to ask, but if it is possible to give an one-word answer to "who is stronger", then blizzard has failed at balance. Unrelated, right now the answer is "disc, but it doesn't matter".

The thing with 5.1, disc ended up so OP it hurt holy more than any other spec, and holy priests did not always end up playing their favorite spec because either their raid leaders forced them to go disc, or just hinted they should go disc (or else). Even in this forum I've seen posts of priests calling any holy that stayed holy a jerk to his raid group, and that tells the story, for me, of the entire patch for holy and disc priests.

If you look at it from an objective POV, holy isn't doing bad atm, its pretty competitive with other healers, but it needs improvements, especially in mana regen and utility (and chakra. Please fix chakra). Raw output healers are just not needed that much at this point, and this was a tier where absorbs made all boss mechanics (especially in HoF) much easier (save for a few gimmick fights). So what should a poor holy priest do? Should he help his group get the fastest progression and go disc? Or should he play whatever makes this game fun for him? I for one always thought the later is the correct answer, but after this patch I'm not so sure anymore. At times I wish I'd pick a class with no other healing spec, because if I'm, say, a resto druid, I won't be able to respec to any other healing spec, therefore I might be benched, but at least I won't be considered a jerk for refusing to respec.

I think DS was by far better balance for healing than this tier. Disc and Holy were nearly identical in their viablity, each offered advatnages over the other in certain fights. Druids, Shammies were also doing pretty good and everything, other than Paladins, seemed pretty balanced. But even pallies were limited in some fights, so every spec in the game got a chance to exprese itself and shine. This was a tier where holy priests, as a spec, were pretty much dead. Look at the amount of discussions about them, look at the amount of players actually raiding with them - very little. Its almost as if the players themselevs, even the most diehard holy players, gave up on the spec, gave up on Blizzard, and moved on to disc. That's how I see it at least. If 5.2 brings balance, that'd be a blessing indeed.

[lizon]

Wasnt that long ago we had emergency hotfixes because Holy was so woefully underpowered. I also still remember the farce of 4.2.

Those "fixes" weren't really needed. Nor were the fixes needed for Disc during 5.0. Players were simply too impatient to get the gear they needed in order to raid. Notice that now most of the changes this next patch for Disc are simply a reverse to how things were during 5.0 before the hotfixes with a few more scaling issues baked in.

The thing with 5.1, disc ended up so OP it hurt holy more than any other spec, and holy priests did not always end up playing their favorite spec because either their raid leaders forced them to go disc, or just hinted they should go disc (or else). Even in this forum I've seen posts of priests calling any holy that stayed holy a jerk to his raid group, and that tells the story, for me, of the entire patch for holy and disc priests.

And if I ever see someone saying that to a Holy Priest I would tell them off as well cause they would be in the wrong. Holy can be and is a very good healer if it's in the hands of a player that knows WTF they are doing. In fact every healer class is viable if it's in the hands of a player that enjoys what they are doing, and how they are doing it.

That is the whole point at the end of the day. If you play what you enjoy you will work your butt of to make it work no matter the situation. The differences between the specs on paper only matter to those who are pushing cutting edge content and those people typically play both specs anyways and switch glyphs on every boss. For "normal" folks it doesn't matter as much.

[Deleted]

Those "fixes" weren't really needed. Nor were the fixes needed for Disc during 5.0. Players were simply too impatient to get the gear they needed in order to raid. Notice that now most of the changes this next patch for Disc are simply a reverse to how things were during 5.0 before the hotfixes with a few more scaling issues baked in.

Highlighting the fact that Blizzard have trouble balancing healing. I can see why people ask the question.

[HPLathus]

I find it funny you mention others being narrowminded, because you are one of the worst. I'll never forget how clueless you were a few months ago, at least it seems you are grasping this class better now.

However, bringing a disc in ten mans JUST to atonement heal was a perfectly viable strat in early progression on garajal, and still is for guilds who are just now starting on it. For that matter, as disc there are potently opportunities in most fights a use a very healthy amount of atonement heals in between spirit shells.

You need to chill the fuck out, there are better ways to state your point without coming across as a __________.

There's a little mad lib there, fill it in with your favorite adjective.

1) How it posting an open minded statement about the two specs narrow minded?

2) When did I ever say disc should not use atonement? You absolutely should be using it, but you should not be brought in as a DPS. Because that strategy was used on a single fight, does not make it viable for all fights.


I love how priests on these forums try to put words into other peoples mouths in an attempt to flame/troll.


The caps lock was not to "rage" it was pointing out the important parts of the post.


You want to tell me I am being a ____. Please check the previous posters when I simply stated the either spec is viable, just in different fights and how they instantly told me "AMG UR IDIOT LOL U BAD"

---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 05:32 PM ----------

Posting in caps to prove a point, not to yell.


Caps doesn't have to mean screaming, I capsed them to point out the highlights in the post. It's called dynamic writing while explaining something.

[Xs]

At times I wish I'd pick a class with no other healing spec, because if I'm, say, a resto druid, I won't be able to respec to any other healing spec, therefore I might be benched, but at least I won't be considered a jerk for refusing to respec.

If only that was true, theres still play styles that are forced on other healers which aren't as interesting for them as what they want to do

[ramennoodleking]

1) How it posting an open minded statement about the two specs narrow minded?

2) When did I ever say disc should not use atonement? You absolutely should be using it, but you should not be brought in as a DPS. Because that strategy was used on a single fight, does not make it viable for all fights.


I love how priests on these forums try to put words into other peoples mouths in an attempt to flame/troll.


The caps lock was not to "rage" it was pointing out the important parts of the post.


You want to tell me I am being a ____. Please check the previous posters when I simply stated the either spec is viable, just in different fights and how they instantly told me "AMG UR IDIOT LOL U BAD"

---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 05:32 PM ----------

Posting in caps to prove a point, not to yell.


Caps doesn't have to mean screaming, I capsed them to point out the highlights in the post. It's called dynamic writing while explaining something.

1.) Your posts are very often narrowminded, as you have made clear in previous posts, threads, sub forums, and certainly in this thread by finishing every post you made with "/thread," as if you are some sort of authority on being a priest. News flash: you're not.

2.) You said disc should not be brought in as a dps. But sometimes that's exactly the point of the "2.5" healer idea: to increase raid dps while helping out struggling healers. Often, as was the case for some guilds on heroic garajal, smiting was practically all the dis did.

And finally, when you make posts like you do, you can expect snide remarks right back at you. The caps lock doesn't help and is widely considered on the Internet as the trademark of a the childish, whiny poster trying to get attention or shout down others' thoughts.

Unless people have been on the PTR testing the bosses for specifically the reason of comparing holy to disc, then they probably shouldn't be commenting. Of course, everything is subject to change till the patch is out. I personally havn't been able to log on because we have been spending all our time on the last four heroic bosses of this tier, but if history is any indication, holy scales up really well, and disc hasn't taken too much of a hit. Speaking straight out of my ass, but I'd imagine either will be fine.

[HPLathus]

1.) Your posts are very often narrowminded, as you have made clear in previous posts, threads, sub forums, and certainly in this thread by finishing every post you made with "/thread," as if you are some sort of authority on being a priest. News flash: you're not.

2.) You said disc should not be brought in as a dps. But sometimes that's exactly the point of the "2.5" healer idea: to increase raid dps while helping out struggling healers. Often, as was the case for some guilds on heroic garajal, smiting was practically all the dis did.

And finally, when you make posts like you do, you can expect snide remarks right back at you. The caps lock doesn't help and is widely considered on the Internet as the trademark of a the childish, whiny poster trying to get attention or shout down others' thoughts.

Unless people have been on the PTR testing the bosses for specifically the reason of comparing holy to disc, then they probably shouldn't be commenting. Of course, everything is subject to change till the patch is out. I personally havn't been able to log on because we have been spending all our time on the last four heroic bosses of this tier, but if history is any indication, holy scales up really well, and disc hasn't taken too much of a hit. Speaking straight out of my ass, but I'd imagine either will be fine.

1) This topic is brought up every other day, the same thing is always said. Both specs are viable, neither is better then the other but they hold different strengths in different situations. It gets old having the same argument with priests like YOU, who think they hold authority over what people can and cannot say on this forum. Are you a mod? No, are you absolutely wonderful at harassing other priests on these forums? Yes, is that a bannable offence. yes. I come into threads, and I post my opinion, it's YOU who comes in trolling/flaming acting like you are god.

I think you have a skewed perception as to what other people say and you are the only one here that is being narrow minded on this topic.

2) I will continue to feel that bringing in a disc priest for the idea of a .5 healer is really not a smart choice, your healers either need to step it up or your DPS needs to step it up. No, a HEALING SPEC.. should not be brought in as a DPS. If it works on a VERY SPECIFIC fight, then you could be doing it, that doesn't mean it's viable on everything.

You are basing the "disc dps" idea on the fact that you used it on a single fight. That does not make it viable for ALL fights. Sure, for garajal it's wonderful because for the most part, the extra DPS is handy and the smart heal on the debuffed people is great.

But since you think I am so close minded, let me say this.

- Holy can actually perform the same amount of healing on the debuffed people via renew/chakra:serenity/cascade.

- Holy can actually heal the people that go down into the shadow realm faster then a disc priest can, meaning that healer could also come out of the realm sooner to help the healer up top.

- The argument of regen can't be used on this fight simply because of the buff that gives you mana back in the shadow realm.

With that said, gara'jal is a perfect example of how both specs are on par on a fight where people think disc would be better.

But I forgot that I am closed minded to how the priest class works, my bad.


3) When I make posts like I do? Because I post a strong opinion and its true, and people don't like it. So they come back trolling/flaming me like children thinking they hold authority over what I say.

The only thing I said that could have come accross nasty, was that if you are bringing in a disc priest for DPS then your raid is bad.


Nothing else in my post was rude/degrading/flaming. You just felt that because I posted some key points in caps lock, that I was "mad" and "raging" and being "mean". Sir, it's called highlighting important parts of a post. I was pointing out the strengths of each spec and how they are vastly different from one another, thus rendering the argument "Which healing spec is BEST" null and void.

Because both are just as viable as the next, just in different ways.

[Deleted]

FYI almighty overpriest

2 points here:

1: No they cant get them out faster. Penance + flash heal tops people as fast as anything a holy priest can throw.

2: The fight in the realm is not really about getting out fast.... Its about using the time in the realm untill the very last second. But i bet you knew this.

[kaamila]

1) This topic is brought up every other day, the same thing is always said. Both specs are viable, neither is better then the other but they hold different strengths in different situations. It gets old having the same argument with priests like YOU, who think they hold authority over what people can and cannot say on this forum. Are you a mod? No, are you absolutely wonderful at harassing other priests on these forums? Yes, is that a bannable offence. yes. I come into threads, and I post my opinion, it's YOU who comes in trolling/flaming acting like you are god.

I think you have a skewed perception as to what other people say and you are the only one here that is being narrow minded on this topic.

2) I will continue to feel that bringing in a disc priest for the idea of a .5 healer is really not a smart choice, your healers either need to step it up or your DPS needs to step it up. No, a HEALING SPEC.. should not be brought in as a DPS. If it works on a VERY SPECIFIC fight, then you could be doing it, that doesn't mean it's viable on everything.

You are basing the "disc dps" idea on the fact that you used it on a single fight. That does not make it viable for ALL fights. Sure, for garajal it's wonderful because for the most part, the extra DPS is handy and the smart heal on the debuffed people is great.

But since you think I am so close minded, let me say this.

- Holy can actually perform the same amount of healing on the debuffed people via renew/chakra:serenity/cascade.

- Holy can actually heal the people that go down into the shadow realm faster then a disc priest can, meaning that healer could also come out of the realm sooner to help the healer up top.

- The argument of regen can't be used on this fight simply because of the buff that gives you mana back in the shadow realm.

With that said, gara'jal is a perfect example of how both specs are on par on a fight where people think disc would be better.

But I forgot that I am closed minded to how the priest class works, my bad.


3) When I make posts like I do? Because I post a strong opinion and its true, and people don't like it. So they come back trolling/flaming me like children thinking they hold authority over what I say.

The only thing I said that could have come accross nasty, was that if you are bringing in a disc priest for DPS then your raid is bad.


Nothing else in my post was rude/degrading/flaming. You just felt that because I posted some key points in caps lock, that I was "mad" and "raging" and being "mean". Sir, it's called highlighting important parts of a post. I was pointing out the strengths of each spec and how they are vastly different from one another, thus rendering the argument "Which healing spec is BEST" null and void.

Because both are just as viable as the next, just in different ways.

im 16/16H on 2 characters, 1 of them being my priest and although both specs are completely viable on any fight, disc is better IMO from all the fights ive healed as both specs. bringing a disc priest aside from the bubbles and absorbs, is the dps. no the dps dont "need to step it up". some fights, garajal during progression, heroic sha and other enrage tight fights, disc would be the winner because it can do 50k dps. the time for pure healer is gone, now if you heal, you also have to dps during any downtime you have when healing. thats what separates the good healers from the sub-par ones. just because youre a healer, does not mean that you just sit there when you have nothing to heal, now you have to dps.