Vi jungle

[Vespian]

You're forgetting something in the whole "will get away argument". You have teammates. Vi brings CC and insane damage. Any assistance from a teammate will force a flash (in which case Phage ain't helping you) or get you a kill (in which case Phage won't be helping you either).

I could insert any number of variables to support either claim. What if I have teammates without CC? What if there are no teammates and I'm 1v2. What ifs are the best thing come to man besides the constitution, they help support any claim.

While I agree that IF you can rely on your team to have that CC (premade, typical CC roles/champs), it doesn't mean it's always true and in randoms, it's mostly untrue. And, to add, Lizard doesn't build HP and I do not spend gold on items with wasted stats.

[Foxtails]

i prefer machete 5 > wriggles 1st back > boots > brut > black cleaver > warmog. your mid game is so insanely strong you can literally carry the entire team, it's insane when done correctly

[Deleted]

I said it was a "L2P" issue if you're building Phage because the enemy escapes the R + Q combo. If you took offence to it it is little concern to me. If you play Vi correctly you don't need the slow.

If you're comparing items, why don't you go Giants Belt + Long sword. It gives more HP and a little less AD, as well as building into items you can later use (Warmogs/Sunfire/Randuins)

Phage is too expensive for the stats it gives. There is a reason you don't need the Phage rush top lane anymore, or why Trinity has fallen so far out of favour compared to other items.

Vi doesn't need Phage. If you want health, grab an early Giants Belt and leave it while you build other items. Believe it or not, the build I suggested is one used by probably the top Vi player (Soloqueue) currently (TeenageRobot XJ9). Your bias about Elder Lizard has no grounds, other than you think the health from phage outweighs the damage it does, either in a team fight, or a 1v1 scenario. Honestly, I doubt you've tried Elder Lizard. You're not playing competitively where every jungler seems to be pidgeon-holed into a Support-tank role. You're playing soloqueue. You carry. The build I suggested will let you do that. The rushed Phage will give you no presence in the game where you need it.

---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 01:25 AM ----------

While I agree that IF you can rely on your team to have that CC (premade, typical CC roles/champs), it doesn't mean it's always true and in randoms, it's mostly untrue. And, to add, Lizard doesn't build HP and I do not spend gold on items with wasted stats.

Please go message XJ9 and tell him you consider Elder Lizard to have wasted stats. Then please post his response here.

Honestly, if you consider potentially group-wide true damage as a "wasted stat" then this conversation is gonna get old fast.

[Deleted]

What the fuck do you mean by 'double dip'?

MP5 is always a great stat to have on any mana-based jungler. It'll let you stay in the jungle longer (especially as Vi) and it'll allow for more ganks.
Same deal with HP5. HP5 scales insanely well into late-game aswell when you get the inevitable Warmogs.

As it currently stands, Phage is way too expensive for what it gives, which is why you should not - and do not - rush it. As a jungler you'll have red buff for sticking power (which is reliable, Phage is NOT reliable). So taking Phage for sticking power is wasted. So you wanna spend 1590gold for 200 Health and 20 AD? No thank you. I'd rather spend the gold getting my Elder Lizzard which'll boost my durability in the jungle (more ganks, scales well into lategame) and gives me a significant damage boost due to the passive and the 50 AD. Not to mention the 10% CDR. Lizzard is only 710 more gold than Phage is. Take into account that you can grab the Pickaxe up, some wards and then return after some farm/ganks for the final item if you can't quite afford it, it's not like getting a BF where you have to sit with the gold for a long time before being able to buy it.

CDR is problaly one of the best stats for Vi.

While BC is awesome, Brutalizer already provides 10% CDR, 10 flat ARP and 25 AD. Rushing the upgrade just for 25 AD, 200 health and the passive is simply not worth it. We're not even twenty minutes into the game; no one's got insane amounts of armor yet, you don't need the armor shred at all (partly because of her already built-in armor shred from W). Gold is better spent getting Elder Lizzard into Warmogs; providing more damage, and more survivability.

Phage simply put is just not cost-effective anymore. You're better off getting Giant's Belt and then grabbing Mallet(Or any other major health item really) whenever these days.

It's sounds to me like you're either playing Vi at a very low level, or just haven't tried anything other than your own build with her.

[Rampant Rabbit]

It's not about L2P. I don't understand why you even felt the need to bring it up. A pity you did, actually, because it kills any objective discussion that could be had. Let's ignore you said it, for the sake of this thread.

Let's make that twice better, because Vi benefits most from HP. Phage is 60% of the cost of an Elder Lizard, meaning you have about 1k (actually that's 700, I didn't count machete) left to spend on that Black Cleaver, and Black Cleaver is worth twice as much as Elder Lizard. While the CDR is nice, the hp/5 or mp/5 doesn't do anything for Vi. She hardly needs mana after her first Blue and the HP regen is a long term benefit, while stacking more HP is a double dip on any engage due to her shield and Vi stacks BC stacks very quickly.

I feel that your entire take on Vi is from a single target pure burst perspective. Will R + Q be enough on a single target, actually, yes, most of the time, but it doesn't help you chasing leftover targets. And you're not always in the position where you have several allies that can stop any runaways.

Vi benefits from all stats on Phage. Double from HP.
Vi benefits from all stats on BC. Double from HP.
Vi only benefits from 2 of 4 stats on Elder Lizard and it has no HP.

The way I play Vi, she can be focussed in the middle of an engage and still stand straight. The way you seem to play Vi (early) is a glass cannon build, which will work when focussing down a single target and you will rack up kills faster, but if you're caught in an ambush or just happen to walk into anything that's better at focussing down single targets (Xin comes to mind), you will wish you had that hp. My Vi also helps my teammates get kills or assists by slowing anything that ends up running away.

So all in all, agree to disagree I guess Just don't make silly comments about L2P. It's so..1998.

ur s0 fragile.....


Seriously though, I agree with what Styles said. Vi's Q (provided you hit your target) adds enough disruption for you and your laning team mate to dish out enough damage.

Brutalizer adds so much damage to your early > mid game. Phage feels like wasted gold on a jungler like Vi during early > mid.

[Deleted]

I could insert any number of variables to support either claim. What if I have teammates without CC? What if there are no teammates and I'm 1v2. What ifs are the best thing come to man besides the constitution, they help support any claim.

While I agree that IF you can rely on your team to have that CC (premade, typical CC roles/champs), it doesn't mean it's always true and in randoms, it's mostly untrue. And, to add, Lizard doesn't build HP and I do not spend gold on items with wasted stats.

He didn't say "what if" though. And your teammates don't need extra CC. R > Q or Q > R is more than enough CC for you to kill the target.

You yourself as Vi has enough damage to land the kill with the help of a teammate when combined with her immense CC.

Phage wont help you in any case what-so-ever.

[Vespian]

It's sounds to me like you're either playing Vi at a very low level, or just haven't tried anything other than your own build with her.

No this stems from several Vi threads both in these boards and on the official forums. One front has people swearing by Phage the others detest it.

To all the others in this thread. There's several ways of having a discussion. You probably had to learn these when you still had classes in the language you were born, in my case it was Dutch class. If you had such classes, you are perfectly aware of the fact that there's facts and arguments that can support your case. In the case of L2P, it immediately classifies anyone that disagrees as someone that needs to learn how to play, in other words, as someone that doesn't get the game. That doesn't get IT.

I have a problem with this form of having a debate. You can proof me wrong by arguing several cases, but throwing in the L2P argument, is not an argument. It's just a superiority complex trying to make someone else look inferior and in Dutch, is referred to as an erroneous argument.

That is my issue with L2P. I know that on these boards, the biggest trolls are in the LoL forums, so I'll let this go after making this last point, but I do not feel offended by L2P comments. I feel pity for the foo' that uses it, but I don't get hurt. It just makes one, so..pathetic.

MP5 is always a great stat to have on any mana-based jungler. It'll let you stay in the jungle longer (especially as Vi) and it'll allow for more ganks.
Same deal with HP5. HP5 scales insanely well into late-game aswell when you get the inevitable Warmogs.

I'm sorry what do you even mean by especially Vi? She has the least mana abusive skills in the game on any jungler. What's there that's so extremely "especially" about her ?

How does HP5 scale? Literally, how?

HP scales with Vi due to her passive. HP/5 decreases in effectiveness as more health gets added to your health pool and the game progresses.

[Deleted]

Oh my god, seriously. Would you be less offended if I said "It's an issue with you learning how to gank properly as Vi"

I can't believe I'm having this discussion at 12am. That's what was meant by "It's a L2P issue" Seriously. It was me that made the;
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-Replays-below!

and spent time doing that. You'll notice I said its a "L2P" >>ISSUE<< and highlighted the area: "How to gank as Vi 101"

I didn't say "You straight up just need to L2P"

People are so sensitive on this board.

[Vespian]

Oh my god, seriously. Would you be less offended if I said "It's an issue with you learning how to gank properly as Vi"

No, because it's still about trying to win the argument by classifying the other as a lesser being. You can't win a discussion that way. There's a few follow-ups that make me currently contemplate to play without Phage for a while, but yours definitely isn't one of them.

And while I try to refrain from insults, I would like you to read the part that says "does not feel insulted" (again, and probably again, judging by the response). I'm simply attacking you on basic rules of engagement when starting a debate.

P.S. Do something useful with that thread or stop waving it in my face as if it should somehow save you from me.

[Deleted]

No this stems from several Vi threads both in these boards and on the official forums. One front has people swearing by Phage the others detest it.

So you're basing your opinions on others posts?

I'm sorry what do you even mean by especially Vi? She has the least mana abusive skills in the game on any jungler. What's there that's so extremely "especially" about her ?

How does HP5 scale? Literally, how?

HP scales with Vi due to her passive. HP/5 decreases in effectiveness as more health gets added to your health pool and the game progresses.

I mean especially on Vi because she takes no damage from the creeps due to her passive shield (after a few levels in E they wont get to break the shield). This lets you regen as much hp as you want, letting you stay healthy for ganking, possible counter-ganks by enemy and so on. And yes, her abilities are decently mana-abusive, not much, at all. But it's there, and you require mana to clear camps faster. Mana and health regen are never a negative stat. It's not something to stack, but it is never wasted as staying out of the base for as long as possible is the absolute best.

HP5 scales late-game the more durable you get. It's fairly obvious. you have health, armor, mr = you stay in the fight longer, you stay alive longer. The longer you stay alive, the more effective HP5 gets?

Anyways, still waiting for a response on some of the more.. major.. points.

[Vespian]

So you're basing your opinions on others posts?

Obviously? As long as the person has a strong case and/or provides video evidence and/or seems to have the agreement of the average player base, meaning those that sustain their opinions with more facts. When Vi was released, Phage was in her core build. I still think it should, but a few people in here seem to strongly disagree and a few actually manage to put something on "paper" that makes sense, so I feel I should at least try playing her without.

I mean especially on Vi because she takes no damage from the creeps due to her passive shield (after a few levels in E they wont get to break the shield). This lets you regen as much hp as you want, letting you stay healthy for ganking, possible counter-ganks by enemy and so on. And yes, her abilities are decently mana-abusive, not much, at all. But it's there, and you require mana to clear camps faster. Mana and health regen are never a negative stat. It's not something to stack, but it is never wasted as staying out of the base for as long as possible is the absolute best.

HP5 scales late-game the more durable you get. It's fairly obvious. you have health, armor, mr = you stay in the fight longer, you stay alive longer. The longer you stay alive, the more effective HP5 gets?

Vi's strength lies in ganking as early as level 3. She hardly takes jungle damage. Her W is enough to clear entire camps if you're worried about mana, but while I write that down, I'm actually thinking about scrapping that, because it doesn't matter, because her abilities simply aren't that mana abusive that you would even need a second blue.

HP5 in any group fight, means nothing. Most actual engages end within 10 seconds and the leftovers either don't have the luxury of regenerating 4K hp at the rate of ~50+14hp per 5 seconds (would take 62 ticks, which is..lots of minutes) or are dead. That 100 hp in 10 seconds, didn't safe you. What saved you, is the HP +10% on shield on the engage while you dispose of the enemy carry and harass other squishies.

[Deleted]

No, because it's still about trying to win the argument by classifying the other as a lesser being. You can't win a discussion that way. There's a few follow-ups that make me currently contemplate to play without Phage for a while, but yours definitely isn't one of them.

And while I try to refrain from insults, I would like you to read the part that says "does not feel insulted" (again, and probably again, judging by the response). I'm simply attacking you on basic rules of engagement when starting a debate.

P.S. Do something useful with that thread or stop waving it in my face as if it should somehow save you from me.

Save myself from you? You seem to be under the delusion that anything you say has any relevance to how I approach this game. I stopped doing anything with that thread because people like to spread misinformation here. This whole thread being the prime responses.

You also seem to be suffering from another delusion that I should care what will make you change your mind. I care not for either your opinion on me, or the way you appear to cover your "I don't care about being told to L2P" by continually striving to find more ways to get pissed off about it.

In fact, keep promoting this phage Vi build with a Mallet rush. It might spread to other people that don't know how to build, and I can have a few more weeks of tier 1 Vi.
.

[Vespian]

Save myself from you? You seem to be under the delusion that anything you say has any relevance to how I approach this game. I stopped doing anything with that thread because people like to spread misinformation here. This whole thread being the prime responses.

You also seem to be suffering from another delusion that I should care what will make you change your mind. I care not for either your opinion on me, or the way you appear to cover your "I don't care about being told to L2P" by continually striving to find more ways to get pissed off about it.

In fact, keep promoting this phage Vi build with a Mallet rush. It might spread to other people that don't know how to build, and I can have a few more weeks of tier 1 Vi.
.

I don't think I would rush into Frozen Mallet actually. A tad expensive compared to other options that add more to your skill set. I find it strange that you still insist on assuming that I feel offended by the L2P comment, while I'm trying to make clear to you, that for someone that pretends to be a teacher, you come up with very few factual reasons to pursue your item choices. (Trying to tell others that they are bad, which again I couldn't care less about, is not a reason). Some people here have taken that burden from you.

I'm not looking to convince you, I want you to convince me. And why not. If you manage to tell people that if they do Z instead of A, that they suck, you should at least be able to tell them why. The universal question everyone should always ask whenever one is told to do something for the sake of doing it. Why?

Save myself from you?

That was cynical. But do tell. What was the reason you had to refer to that topic that never actually had any reviews given by you?

[Deleted]

I don't think I would rush into Frozen Mallet actually. A tad expensive compared to other options that add more to your skill set. I find it strange that you still insist on assuming that I feel offended by the L2P comment, while I'm trying to make clear to you, that for someone that pretends to be a teacher, you come up with very few factual reasons to pursue your item choices. (Trying to tell others that they are bad, which again I couldn't care less about, is not a reason). Some people here have taken that burden from you.

The Frozen Mallet comment was again referencing evidence: Your LoLking profile with Vi games in match history, where your core is Mallet/Black Cleaver + Ninja Tabi.
I also never said I was a teacher. I gave advice, which, so far, had a 100% agree rate with the people that I posted in the thread to/posted a PM to me. How I address you here is not really indicative of my "teaching skills".

I also gave reasons why you pursue those items. Brutalizer for the early-mid game power spike. Elder Lizard for the same reason, as well as a way to apply AoE true damage in team fights. The fact you neglected this information isn't down to me. It's there. It should also be painfully why you go items that are listed. I'm not here to spoon feed you why you should go x over y. If someone says "Brutalizer is good on X" it's up to you to think about why. You become a better player by working this shit out for yourself. Not by having someone tell you what to do on all your champions.

Brutalizer gives you CDR for your engage(s) (Q + R) along with your E which becomes a huge amount of your damage early-mid game, as well as armor penetration for your autos (Which synergise with your W passive). On top of that, you get the AD, which allows all your abilities to hit harder (Including W)
I also didn't call you bad. I said your items choices were poor. You should try readings what's written, and not what you twist it into.


I'm not looking to convince you, I want you to convince me. And why not. If you manage to tell people that if they do Z instead of A, that they suck, you should at least be able to tell them why. The universal question everyone should always ask whenever one is told to do something for the sake of doing it. Why?

That was cynical. But do tell. What was the reason you had to refer to that topic that never actually had any reviews given by you?

1. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post19235617
2. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post19235548
3. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post19235484
4. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post19234542
5. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post19234091
6. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post19234222
7. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post19228361
8. http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post19251089

Should I continue?

[Deleted]

Obviously? As long as the person has a strong case and/or provides video evidence and/or seems to have the agreement of the average player base, meaning those that sustain their opinions with more facts. When Vi was released, Phage was in her core build. I still think it should, but a few people in here seem to strongly disagree and a few actually manage to put something on "paper" that makes sense, so I feel I should at least try playing her without.

This just makes me sad.

Go try it out and make your own opinion of it, atleast do to before spreading an incorrect one.

Yes, Phage was in her core build -- when Phage cost 1415gold (And I'm pretty sure no one actually knew how to play her properly at this point, let alone build her -- but if so, it was most likely to build into TriForce). Not 1590gold. No one rushes Phage toplane anymore for a very, very good reason. The same reason applies to the jungler, even moreso though because a jungler makes less gold. The reason being the item is no longer cost-efficient.

Vi's strength lies in ganking as early as level 3. She hardly takes jungle damage. Her W is enough to clear entire camps if you're worried about mana, but while I write that down, I'm actually thinking about scrapping that, because it doesn't matter, because her abilities simply aren't that mana abusive that you would even need a second blue.

HP5 in any group fight, means nothing. Most actual engages end within 10 seconds and the leftovers either don't have the luxury of regenerating 4K hp at the rate of ~50+14hp per 5 seconds (would take 62 ticks, which is..lots of minutes) or are dead. That 100 hp in 10 seconds, didn't safe you. What saved you, is the HP +10% on shield on the engage while you dispose of the enemy carry and harass other squishies.

Yes, the health regen will save you more than your shield will due to the fact that the shield lasts for 3seconds. In that time the squishies will be CC'd, and trying to run away from you -- your regen will always tick in the background and it'll be there if you're able to kite. You don't have to regen 4K health (seriously, dude?) at all (i dont even get your point here, what are you trying to say with this?) for it to be useful. Even regenning 100-200hp within those 10seconds (yes I'm saying 200health because you're obviously at the stage of teamfighting which means we 100% now have a Warmogs, Randuins/Sunfire and (possibly) Spirit Visage which all greatly increases your health regen by a very large margin).

I'll say it again; the more durable you are, the more efficient health regen is. But this isn't the point at all. We're STILL ONLY talking about the very start of the game, barely 15-20minutes into the game and whether Phage is worth it not vs. Elder Lizzard. I'll just re-write my points since you seem to completely ignore them and just nitpick on the health regen thing (which I'm still correct on l0l):

You're a jungler. You get red buff. You have sticking power. More importantly; you have reliable sticking power.
Phage is not reliable. And since you already have a red buff, you pay 1590g for 200health and 20AD. That's not worth it, at all. Very far from it.

Gold is better spent on the Spirit Stone and Pickaxe and eventually Elder Lizzard for way, way more damage. We're in the early stages of the game; getting tanky as Vi is not the way to go. And (as stated by Styles and myself earlier), if you absolutely want health - you're better off buying a Giant's Belt and Long Sword for more health and a bit less AD, and you'll still have 200g leftover.

Early brutalizer's is more than enough on Vi early on. Spending 1663g just to get 200health, +25AD and the passive is, again, too expensive for a jungler early-on. It's not cost-efficient yet. You still have great damage from Elder Lizzard and the Brutalizer. Your CDR wont increase on Black Cleaver, and you already have a armor shred (single target, sure) on your W.

[Vespian]

snip

I never got the impression you referenced me directly. I don't rush Frozen Mallet. Period. I don't call getting it after team fights started "rushing". I rush Phage. Which is why it's second place on the list. Which is no different from how I explained it. I like boots of mobility. I also like Ninja Tabi. In some cases I might pick up one over the other. And really, I really didn't think you would find my profile with those matches (I lie).

You're not getting it, again. I don't care that you don't want to spoon feed me info, as long as you stop expressing yourself in the "lol bro' you're doing it wrong dawg" way without pointing out why. If you don't want to add the why, then don't post. At least I had/have a philosophy about my item build. I'm not randomly picking up items and I have the courtesy to add that information in an attempt to get a discussion going that might teach me more about the game.

In the meantime you added a few useful things that I did actually miss. Although I didn't miss the true damage, I did miss the fact that E applies it across all targets. Which when thinking about it pretty obvious actually, but that's why I'm here and that's why I want you to not use retarded argumentation such as the L2P move, but instead use the smarts that you have and spread it.

That said, I was bluffing on the review topic. Had to do it by memory. The point of sarcasm is not that it has to be true. It just has to hit close enough.

Edit:

To the guy that seems to need a chillpill above me, take a step back, take a breath. We're past the point of reliable sticking power. I get it. Thanks. I already stated I will go and try the build without Phage. Phage is only: 1465 btw. Edit I can't log into the game right now. You're telling me they turned this into 1600? I blindly kept buying it. I never reviewed the cost.

About the HP5, you are still wrong. Even assuming that 3 seconds on the shield (which it won't last btw, your shield will be gone as soon as you engage, since they'll either focus you down or keep you CC'd and away from their carry, but it will have taken the damage that could have otherwise taken your life) make it, that's not even 60hp :P

You are giving some good tips. Once more, I never kept on going about how good Phage was, no need to stress out. But HP5 versus raw HP, on Vi? HP any time.

[Deleted]

I never got the impression you referenced me directly. I don't rush Frozen Mallet. Period. I don't call getting it after team fights started "rushing". I rush Phage. Which is why it's second place on the list. Which is no different from how I explained it. I like boots of mobility. I also like Ninja Tabi. In some cases I might pick up one over the other. And really, I really didn't think you would find my profile with those matches (I lie).

You're not getting it, again. I don't care that you don't want to spoon feed me info, as long as you stop expressing yourself in the "lol bro' you're doing it wrong dawg" way without pointing out why. If you don't want to add the why, then don't post. At least I had/have a philosophy about my item build. I'm not randomly picking up items and I have the courtesy to add that information in an attempt to get a discussion going that might teach me more about the game.

In the meantime you added a few useful things that I did actually miss. Although I didn't miss the true damage, I did miss the fact that E applies it across all targets. Which when thinking about it pretty obvious actually, but that's why I'm here and that's why I want you to not use retarded argumentation such as the L2P move, but instead use the smarts that you have and spread it.

That said, I was bluffing on the review topic. Had to do it by memory. The point of sarcasm is not that it has to be true. It just has to hit close enough.

And again, for the 3rd time. "L2P issue". I'm not telling you "Get good son". Im telling you "If you need phage to gank as Vi then it's a L2P issue". What you posted, was that you take Phage for the synergy with her ganks. My response was you don't need phage, due to the fact you have your R + Q combo. (R into them, Q them to push them slightly to your team)

Replace "L2P" with "refresher course on Vi ganking" if it makes you feel better. It was never meant to be offensive. It was meant as a fast reply while I watch LCS. And about the Replay topic, you might've missed that I renamed from StylesClashv3 to Brittany Sn0w.

[Deleted]

I'm perfectly chilled :P

And it was never an issue of HP regen vs raw HP.
You called the hp/mana regen a wasted stat on Elder Lizzard. I told you why it wasn't. Obviously raw health > health regen. I also said this earlier.

Oh, and FYI: They can't stop you from getting to enemy carries. R onto him and that's it.

I don't know why I got it to 1590g, I'm tired and prolly mixed it up with something else, cant think of what though D:. Just change it to 1315 v 1465 in the above post, it's still the same.

[Vespian]

And again, for the 3rd time. "L2P issue". I'm not telling you "Get good son". Im telling you "If you need phage to gank as Vi then it's a L2P issue". What you posted, was that you take Phage for the synergy with her ganks. My response was you don't need phage, due to the fact you have your R + Q combo. (R into them, Q them to push them slightly to your team)

Replace "L2P" with "refresher course on Vi ganking" if it makes you feel better. It was never meant to be offensive. It was meant as a fast reply while I watch LCS. And about the Replay topic, you might've missed that I renamed from StylesClashv3 to Brittany Sn0w.

Yeahw..not sure why you did that, because a. your avatar needs work, b. who the hell wants to be called like any of the girls on TEDs list of dumb blondes and c. Why rape John Snows last name

Back on topic. I'm going to stop trying to explain to you why the argument is also called an erroneous argument. It's a language thing, which apparently hasn't been taught to you at school and it's ..not worth to keep explaining it. I'll just have to concede and consider that I simply am not able to get my point across. As long as you remember, or understand, that anyone wherever can call me anything and I probably wouldn't feel a thing, ever. I don't care. Like. Not. And I should be inserting all forms of different languages saying "I do not care"to make this funny, but I can't be arsed to google translate.

My original point about Phage was more or less that R isn't always there. So you'll have to occasionally do everything with just Q. And in that situation, I felt that Phage was pretty solid, since it adds about 3 hits in a second with E and every hit having 25% chance to slow means that (1-(.75^3)) = 57% (0,578125) chance that the target gets slowed. But people are right when they refer to the Red buff, although I still think it's an exaggeration to assume that Red buff is always on you, I guess I'll just haver to learn to play around that.

I'm perfectly chilled :P

And it was never an issue of HP regen vs raw HP.
You called the hp/mana regen a wasted stat on Elder Lizzard. I told you why it wasn't. Obviously raw health > health regen. I also said this earlier.

Oh, and FYI: They can't stop you from getting to enemy carries. R onto him and that's it.

I don't know why I got it to 1590g, I'm tired and prolly mixed it up with something else, cant think of what though D:. Just change it to 1315 v 1465 in the above post, it's still the same.

Unless it's been changed, the R can't be interrupted, but you can be knocked away by say, a Tristana while doing R. The damage and knockup will occur, but you will also be knocked away. It used to be this way and I do recall one of the developers to support this with the words that it was intended.

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He's a pornstar.

How is that not cool?