Who's behind what? - A detailed analysis of all end-of-raid tier boss motives

[Keny]

I thought I heard sarg got corrupted by the old gods, so whatever he corrupts is because of the old gods:O.

Nope he just changed his mind or went Insane, but it was his own influence

[Breccia]

Ok, I re-read my Deathwing lore, and I guess I can accept him directly working for the Old Gods. Shame, really. I didn't want Deathwing to be "middle management".

I still insist, however, that the VoA crew and Malygos aren't the Titans' fault. The Watchers weren't doing anything, so it's hard to call them "masterminded". Malygos was completely insane. The fact that Malygos thought he was doing the Titans' will doesn't make it so. Compare Malygos to the guy in California. He was taken in by the California police, who taught him and armed him. This does not make them responsible if he goes on a killing spree.

[Golden Yak]

You can't read half stories and then argue about it. In the same article it said that the doomguards were titan creations meant to watch over the use of magic. Read things 100%.

What was half-read? Who's arguing?

The doomguard policed the use of dark magic, then developed too close an affinity for it and went bad and became demons. Sargeras' job is to lock up demons. The doomguard at least were a problem the titans had and Sargeras took care of it. And I wonder how many other demon races out there might have started off as titan servitor races before going bad, and that suggests that Sargeras' job is rounding up demons was basically him cleaning up the titans' mistakes.

From there it's easy to make the leap that Sargeras saw everything the titans were doing as inevitably falling to corruption and evil, and thus was born Sargeras' belief that order was an illusion and chaos the natural state of the universe.

I'm making assumptions based on stuff we know, and it's really not that much of a stretch when you look at it.

Source?

All I could find was: "Doomguard says: ...before Sargeras freed us, we were the Titan's hounds. Forever enslaved to police the use of arcane magics."

It says nothing about the Titans creating them.

Well, that's an assumption on my part, but the titans have created every non-titan race they've ever used as servitors, either from scratch or modifying existing life, so I think it's a pretty safe assumption to make.

[Madruga]

I like these kind of analysis, but I disagree with a few things.

- The Scourge is not connected to Sargeras at all. While it is true the Lich King was created by Kill'jaeden, he became free in Warcraft 3. This is so true, that in The Frozen Throne, Kill'jaeden used Illidan to try and destroy the Lich King. Arthas was a stand alone power.
- Before Cataclysm, Ragnaros, Onyxia and Nefarian were not doing the bid of the Old Gods. They were also independent forces, with personal agendas. Only when Deathwing came we can say that their efforts became united.
- The Sha are the remnants of Y'shaarj, but they are not sentient anymore. They are a power of chaos, nothing else, and not related to the Old Gods, even though the chaos they bring does benefit the Old Gods masterplan.

Also, I truly hope Garrosh doesn't become another pawn of the Old Gods. We had enough of these guys for now.

[Kaleredar]

Actually they were at war with each other. This was revealed during the last raid of Cata.

If you're referring to Zon'ozz, all it says is that he was one of the guys "Leading N'zoth's forces against Yogg-Saron and C'thun." It never says "so N'zoth could be the undisputed quivering mass in charge of the world."

It's like the old gods are kids sitting around and smashing their toy cars together. Sure, they want to be "the best" at wrecking the other's cars, but they don't necessarily hold any animosity towards one another. As such, the Old gods commanded their massive armies to slam against one another to watch them fight for the sake of fighting. The old gods strive for chaotic war... you can't make "chaotic war" if you're the only dude around.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

If you're referring to Zon'ozz, all it says is that he was one of the guys "Leading N'zoth's forces against Yogg-Saron and C'thun." It never says "so N'zoth could be the undisputed quivering mass in charge of the world."

You are quite blind aren't you?
"Countless ages ago, Warlord Zon'ozz and his soldiers waged endless war against the forces of C'Thun and Yogg-Saron."

[Kaleredar]

You are quite blind aren't you?
"Countless ages ago, Warlord Zon'ozz and his soldiers waged endless war against the forces of C'Thun and Yogg-Saron."

That's exactly what I'm saying.

The old gods wanted to wage ENDLESS WAR against one another. They PURPOSEFULLY made it endless because they liked watching their forces fight.

The titans then imprisoned them, and they hated it, so they collaborated so they could go back to making Azeroth their bitch again.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

That's exactly what I'm saying.

The old gods wanted to wage ENDLESS WAR against one another. They PURPOSEFULLY made it endless because they liked watching their forces fight.

The titans then imprisoned them, and they hated it, so they collaborated so they could go back to making Azeroth their bitch again.

That is not what you were saying before. Stop trying to change what you said:

If you're referring to Zon'ozz, all it says is that he was one of the guys "Leading N'zoth's forces against Yogg-Saron and C'thun." It never says "so N'zoth could be the undisputed quivering mass in charge of the world."

Which you pretty much lie right here. Just stop.

[TJ]

Few things I'd disagree with. As mentioned, LK sort of went out of control and did his own thing so he can't be classed as KJ's idea and leading back to Sargeras as the mastermind.

Also, Archimonde attacked the world tree on his own accord to get powers for himself selfishly, it wasn't a Sargeras plan.

[Kaleredar]

That is not what you were saying before. Stop trying to change what you said:

Which you pretty much lie right here. Just stop.

I've been saying the same thing.

I never said the old gods weren't fighting, I said they weren't trying to actually win anything.

When I said they weren't really "at war," I meant they weren't warring over things that REAL wars are fought over... land, resources, power... They were fighting just for fighting's sake.

[Icaras]

The way I see Deathwing, he was his own man at 1st. THEN he began to hear the whsipers of the old gods and went insane. But based on the novels I've read of him, he was still doing his own thing for his own benefit at that time. (And thus was "his own mastermind")

Then, thanks partly to Rhonin I believe, Deathwing got his ass kicked...HARD. So he went to Deepholme to lick his wounds and heal...and was basicalkly exposed full force to the old gods, and I looked at it at THAT being the point Deathwing went from being his own man to being an Old God pawn.

Sadly that's the version of Deathwing we got in cata, so everything with him (In game) was masterminded by the old gods.

The stuff he did for himself to help himself happened, but it happenbed outside the game, so our characters never had jack to do with it.

On a related note, Ony and Nef were free agents unrelated to the old gods in their vanilla encounters, so i'd remove those from being "masterminded" by the old gods.

Their Cata appearance was tho, as nef was clearly working for deathwing (who was in turn a pawn of the old gods). Ony...well, she was basically a mindless zombie in that encounter (Nef was kind of an ass of a brother, wasn't?)