What is it with China?

[Nerraw]

CHina gets their OWN expansion and this is the result... hah!

Blizz had a diff expansion planned, but swapped it when accounting thought expanding into China would be most profitable.

Or perhaps the true fans had been asking for Pandaren since the days of Reign of Chaos?

[Beefhammer]

Or perhaps the true fans had been asking for Pandaren since the days of Reign of Chaos?

SHHH. You cannot speak the truth around xenophobes and KFP hating kiddos.

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 10:06 PM ----------

Blizz had a diff expansion planned, but swapped it when accounting thought expanding into China would be most profitable.

Except, Blizzard had more than 6M Asian accounts near the end of WotLK, which accounted for more than half of its total users. Asian market was already saturated with WoW.

[Arbs]

SHHH. You cannot speak the truth around xenophobes and KFP hating kiddos.

There brains can't handle the truth .

[Pann]

SHHH. You cannot speak the truth around xenophobes and KFP hating kiddos.

I would not say that disliking the Pandaren makes any a xenophobe or a child.

Except, Blizzard had more than 6M Asian accounts near the end of WotLK, which accounted for more than half of its total users. Asian market was already saturated with WoW.

Netease, the Chinese WOW provider, run at least two MMOs that are over twice the worldwide WOW population size so it is unlikely that the market was saturated.

[GrieverXIII]

Same way being American doesn't make you fat.

Well it does close to 70% of the time.

[Chickat]

This pretty much explains how. As for the why? Of course because a loss of 100.000, 400.000 or 600.000 is much easier to stomach and get over for a Western player if he believes it did not affect his own gameplay that much. We still got more than 9 Million left, correct?! And most of the losses where Chinese anyway, correct?! They don't even play on our server, correct?!

Contrary to, say, up to 199.999 Western player lost out of already less than 5 Million Western. Or say, up to 4-5% of the Western player base gone. Makes a whole different tune.

It's called marketing.

But OP must have suffered from selective perception, because they never mentioned a greater loss of Eastern player much more than 3 times in WoW history for +30 reports.
I suspect it is due to the fact they never report when the Western loss is greater and many player picking up the "more losses from China" line and bring it up them self even when it wasn't announced. On the other hand Blizzard nor player ever explicitly emphasize, when the latest peak or rise in subs was primary or only due to Chinese or Eastern player growth.

But they actually did say the majority were from China this time.

[Nerraw]

I would not say that disliking the Pandaren makes any a xenophobe or a child.

The irrational hate and negativity displayed by the vocal "fans" do qualify for xenophobia.

[Chickat]

CHina gets their OWN expansion and this is the result... hah!

Blizz had a diff expansion planned, but swapped it when accounting thought expanding into China would be most profitable.

In order for it to be more profitable to cater to the east then the west, the east would have to have at least 5 times as many subs which isn't the case. Fact is Blizzard didnt make MoP to "Pander to the east" They made it because people have been wanting pandaren forever.

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 06:18 PM ----------

SHHH. You cannot speak the truth around xenophobes and KFP hating kiddos.

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 10:06 PM ----------



Except, Blizzard had more than 6M Asian accounts near the end of WotLK, which accounted for more than half of its total users. Asian market was already saturated with WoW.

its just specualtion on my part, but i actually think the subs have fell in china while remaining stabe in the west for the most part. It wouldnt surprise me to see non china subs be at 6m now and china at 3.6m

[Pann]

The irrational hate and negativity displayed by the vocal "fans" do qualify for xenophobia.

Really?!? I've not really seen any hate towards the Pandaren, dislike maybe, but not hatred. For starters xenophobia is a fear of people from another country, I think we can agree that the Pandaren are neither people nor from another country. Although I would agree with you that to hate a made up race from a PC game is irrational.

its just specualtion on my part, but i actually think the subs have fell in china while remaining stabe in the west for the most part. It wouldnt surprise me to see non china subs be at 6m now and china at 3.6m

I doubt this is the case it is unlikely that Blizzard would hide Western subs increasing or remaining stable compared to Chinese subs simply due to the difference in profit each one produces. It was shortly after Netease took over the running of WOW and not long before the launch of Wrath in China that Blizzard stopped giving a regional break down. During this period worldwide subs remained stable despite the launch of Wrath in China it is highly unlikely that China did not see a gain in subs given that there is a very low barrier for entry so that only leaves the prospect that the west was losing subs.

Moving on to the current day we know that MOP sold 2.7 million in the first week it is highly unlikely that it sold a further 3.3 million since then and even more unlikely that Blizzard kept quiet about it. I believe that it is more likely that Western subs account for about 4 million with China making up the rest.

[Deleted]

maybe people buy less gold nowdays?

good one

10chars

[rjparker1]

WOW China has more accounts than NA/EU so both could suffer the same percentage loss but China would lose more accounts. Plus a Western account brings in roughly eight times more money than a Chinese one so Blizzard will always be keen to let investors know the losses are in the less lucrative market. Also I would not too much weight on the statement on the front page as it can mean so many possible outcomes; it could mean that 399k of the 400K accounts were lost in China, 201k were Chinese and 199k were Western subs or it could even mean that overall WOW gained 1 million subs and then lost 900k in China and 500k in the West and would still be factually accurate.



Apart from being a rather racist stereotype Chinese and Western subs are completely separate and why would Chinese players be buying gold when they pay by the hour which makes farming gold an expensive exercise and they have an extensive cash shop? The main market for gold in the West and gold farmers use NA/EU accounts any that have left the game would show up in the Western figures regardless of whether they came from China or not.

Ah where to begin with this post, you are SO wrong... Let me just say it's a FACT that MOST subs are from China that involve gold mining and hacking. That is a FACT (it's actually involves games other than WoW as well). NOT a Stereotype. The Chinese government subsidizes sweat shops and government funded software pirating.. that's a FACT from the US State Department web site.... So a sub being used to mine gold and sell is hardly a far cry.

So that's one aspect, then there is your claim that western accounts bring in 8 times more (where you got 8x is crazy) based on what exactly? It's a sub, it doesn't require you to do ANYTHING except pay your bill each month for 15 bucks.. I don't spend any money with Blizzard other than playing on one sub each month. So you are saying 10 million subs, and only 4 million are USA.. the average USA sub spends 8*15 each month.... yeah I think you just made that up, no one is blowing a benjamin on a game that ALL but a scant few items can be attained in game, and very few items can be bought OUTSIDE and used IN the game, makes no sense..what are they spending it on .. EXACTLY.. maybe Gold! and where does gold come from? China!

Subs are not completely separate they ALL go to one place, Blizzard, so how is that "separate"? A SUB is a SUB.

The reason why they lost subs is because those accounts were BANNED and continue to be BANNED when they break the rules...

I agree with the increase in subs only to lose more subs in the process however... but the rest of it is hogwash.

[Orange Joe]

Ah where to begin with this post, you are SO wrong... Let me just say it's a FACT that MOST subs are from China that involve gold mining and hacking. That is a FACT (it's actually involves games other than WoW as well). NOT a Stereotype. The Chinese government subsidizes sweat shops and government funded software pirating.. that's a FACT from the US State Department web site.... So a sub being used to mine gold and sell is hardly a far cry.

So that's one aspect, then there is your claim that western accounts bring in 8 times more (where you got 8x is crazy) based on what exactly? It's a sub, it doesn't require you to do ANYTHING except pay your bill each month for 15 bucks.. I don't spend any money with Blizzard other than playing on one sub each month. So you are saying 10 million subs, and only 4 million are USA.. the average USA sub spends 8*15 each month.... yeah I think you just made that up, no one is blowing a benjamin on a game that ALL but a scant few items can be attained in game, and very few items can be bought OUTSIDE and used IN the game, makes no sense..what are they spending it on .. EXACTLY.. maybe Gold! and where does gold come from? China!

Subs are not completely separate they ALL go to one place, Blizzard, so how is that "separate"? A SUB is a SUB.

The reason why they lost subs is because those accounts were BANNED and continue to be BANNED when they break the rules...

I agree with the increase in subs only to lose more subs in the process however... but the rest of it is hogwash.

Since you seem to be into facts you do know blizzard doesn't run WoW in china right? it's run by a company called netease. There goes part of blizz's profit. Now on top of that they don't pay monthly. They pay for minutes.

Now I can't say how much more is made in the west but it is FACT western subs bring blizzard more money.

[rjparker1]

Really?!? I've not really seen any hate towards the Pandaren, dislike maybe, but not hatred. For starters xenophobia is a fear of people from another country, I think we can agree that the Pandaren are neither people nor from another country. Although I would agree with you that to hate a made up race from a PC game is irrational.

Moving on to the current day we know that MOP sold 2.7 million in the first week it is highly unlikely that it sold a further 3.3 million since then and even more unlikely that Blizzard kept quiet about it. I believe that it is more likely that Western subs account for about 4 million with China making up the rest.

An article from 2009, shows that Wow was at 11 million.. and the SAME arguments people like you had back then was the same.. they LOST subscriptions, but roughly HALF of subs were in china not the vast majority as you make it sound..

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/world-of-wa...1002582p1.html

---------- Post added 2013-02-15 at 02:24 PM ----------

Since you seem to be into facts you do know blizzard doesn't run WoW in china right? it's run by a company called netease. There goes part of blizz's profit. Now on top of that they don't pay monthly. They pay for minutes.

Now I can't say how much more is made in the west but it is FACT western subs bring blizzard more money.

maybe, but considering half of ALL subs are in China, it's not 8 TIMES More in the west, so that statement is FALSE. I read it as saying that people in western spend 8 times more.. its the same price 15 bucks is 15 bucks, if it's converted to yen, ruples, dollars, euros or pesos.. its still 15 bucks. People don't spend 8 times MORE if half the subscriptions aren't based in the WEST! NOT POSSIBLE

I still say that even if they pay by the hour, it will amount to more not less than what we spend, by the hour just means more profit for netease, of which they STILL have to pay Blizzard a portion of that.

so let's break this down. USA plays 15 dollars a month.

how much is that PER hour? Eh it's 0.50 cents a DAY.

2009 it was 0.06 cents PER hour.. even if they played 3 hours a day (which is below average, especially for china) thats 0.18 cents a day.. but that's 2009, it's closer to 0.11 cents an hour today, so now it's more like 33 cents a day..

Doing your math you say 8 * 33 = 50 cents? Yeah.. that's awesome!

[blackblade]

Ah where to begin with this post, you are SO wrong... Let me just say it's a FACT that MOST subs are from China that involve gold mining and hacking. That is a FACT (it's actually involves games other than WoW as well). NOT a Stereotype. The Chinese government subsidizes sweat shops and government funded software pirating.. that's a FACT from the US State Department web site.... So a sub being used to mine gold and sell is hardly a far cry.

So that's one aspect, then there is your claim that western accounts bring in 8 times more (where you got 8x is crazy) based on what exactly?

Based on this image, posted earlier in the thread



The asian territories are liscenced. Blizzard doesn't handle the localization themselves, third party companies run, manage and localize WoW across most of asia.

This means, that ontop of having a significantly different subscription setup (where they pay by the min), they don't get 100% of the profits (nor do they incur the costs (beyond continuing development on the game), mind you.)

The above image puts pacific asia as 10% of total revenue across all activision-blizzard products (not just wow.)

WoW might have wildly more subs across asia, but Blizzard isn't getting the same bang per person from their Asian clients.

[rjparker1]

Based on this image, posted earlier in the thread

The asian territories are liscenced. Blizzard doesn't handle the localization themselves, third party companies run, manage and localize WoW across most of asia.

This means, that ontop of having a significantly different subscription setup (where they pay by the min), they don't get 100% of the profits (nor do they incur the costs (beyond continuing development on the game), mind you.)

The above image puts pacific asia as 10% of total revenue across all activision-blizzard products (not just wow.)

WoW might have wildly more subs across asia, but Blizzard isn't getting the same bang per person from their Asian clients.

That's great wonderful graphic include ALL financials for a company when we are discussing WoW, not SC2, not D3, not WC, not the games, t-shirts, miniatures, that's all included, you do realize that right?!??!

They don't buy those things in China, so yeah 10% of ALL products isn't remotely restricted to WoW subscription, try to stay ON TOPIC, this is a WoW discussion not Activision or Blizzard..

more than 50% of ALL subscriptions (WoW) is in China, paying by the hour they cannot possible spend MORE in the west than people that have the majority of subscriptions..

Show me the WoW subscription figures not some wallstreet financial times headline!

[Grym]

Same way being American doesn't make you fat.
Same way being British doesn't mean you love tea.

For both cases, mostly do, so not very good examples to use.

[marthsk]

I've HEARD that putting SOME words in CAPS will not only emphasize THEM, but WILL also make them MORE true.


Infracted*

*: Totally worth it...

[Pann]

Ah where to begin with this post, you are SO wrong... Let me just say it's a FACT that MOST subs are from China that involve gold mining and hacking. That is a FACT (it's actually involves games other than WoW as well). NOT a Stereotype. The Chinese government subsidizes sweat shops and government funded software pirating.. that's a FACT from the US State Department web site.... So a sub being used to mine gold and sell is hardly a far cry.

You seem to struggle with the concept of what is a FACT and what is not. I won't bother going into detail regarding the difference in income from a Western and Chinese sub as others have already done so.

Where do you get the information that MOST Chinese subs are hackers and gold farmers from?

Assuming, for a second, that your racist stereotype is in fact a FACT. If most Chinese subs are hackers and gold farmers then the Chinese players that play normally are a minority and a minority of this minority buy gold then we have a situation where the gold farmers vastly outnumber the very people that would buy from. Considering that gold farming is a time intensive activity and Chinese players pay per minute then act of farming gold becomes rather expensive and not only do gold farmers have to compete with other gold farmers, of which there are apparently many, they also have to ensure their prices are lower than the cash shop provided by Netease. I assume you are aware of the concept of supply and demand?

An article from 2009, shows that Wow was at 11 million.. and the SAME arguments people like you had back then was the same.. they LOST subscriptions, but roughly HALF of subs were in china not the vast majority as you make it sound..

The article you linked makes no mention of the amount of players in China although it does say; "Now financially this is less of a blow to Blizzard than it sounds. The Chinese players pay only about 6 cents per hour to play WoW, and most of that went to the Chinese operator..." A FACT that you currently dispute.

But going back to your comment about the vast majority of subs being in China, if my estimate, and it is only an estimate if you have one of the current sub breakdown I would like to hear it, is correct then the split would be roughly 42% Western subs 58% Chinese I would hardly call 58% the vast majority especially when at the beginning of 2009 and WOW hit 12 million subs China accounted for 54% of them.

[Osmeric]

Assuming, for a second, that your racist stereotype is in fact a FACT. If most Chinese subs are hackers and gold farmers then the Chinese players that play normally are a minority and a minority of this minority buy gold then we have a situation where the gold farmers vastly outnumber the very people that would buy from.

He was probably thinking these Chinese gold farmers, on Chinese WoW servers, were somehow magically selling that gold to users on western servers.

How this miracle was supposed to happen I have no idea.

[Deleted]

China is not measurable in terms of subs so the people-taking-part stat is malleable and used accordingly.

Blizzard haven't said what a number in their total subs entails, so take that total with a massive pinch of salt. Total players (subs) could be 5-6 million and we wouldn't know.