So, 5.2 is out in two weeks

[Deleted]

Seems a bit sudden, wasn't even aware that PTR testing on all raid formats had even been completed.

I guess that no one can say that they are leaving full clearing heroic raiders with too much downtime, but hopefully this hasn't just been rushed out for the sake of that - from the look of this thread, this announcement isn't ideal. (However, I'd those complaining because they "lost steam" and then only recently picked up don't really have much reason to do so.)

With a 16 boss tier I'd have expected a bit longer before the release for sure

[Deleted]

Well, 413 H Sha kills aren't too much. I don't remember clearly t11 (the last tier comparable on number of bosses), but isn't ~700-800 kills a more normal number (not counting final tiers)? They shouldn't wait until that, but there are certainly tons of guilds that use to clear content before next patch that haven't done so.

Anyways, the true "is set in stone" is the moment they give the pvp season ending notice. Until then, there is always a bit more than 2 weeks.

[Shampro]

If that's the case, why did Blizzard wait 6 months to release this tier? Why do they even have Normal modes and Heroics? Wasted development time as you say. Blizzard could toss out 20+ undertuned bosses each tier and be done with it.


I'm not angry about the fact that we couldn't kill heroic bosses. I'm angry about the fact that we didn't get the chance to even try (most of them). It's not my guild's fault that our raiders have lives and actually wanted to visit relatives over the holidays, or had work complications, or had real life issues that caused them to quit and caused us to replace them. Our guild didn't even technically get rolling until about 2 months ago, even though we had been struggling to keep a raid group together for the first 3 months of the expansion. Now Blizzard is basically saying "Sorry for your troubles, here's more content for you to grind until your eyes bleed."


Maybe try reading my posts next time. My guild did not hit progression walls, we hit "our raiders have other issues IRL" walls, which is something entirely unavoidable. I'm not even asking to finish this tier on heroic, I never expected my guild to. It just would've been nice to have a chance at seeing more than a couple bosses on Heroic.

By the way, who is "the rest of us?" The 1% of the guilds that have actually completed this heroic tier?

Everything you just said, its not Blizzard's problem dude. They wont wait til you get more ppl becuase they had RL issues. The Tier started the first week of Octuber, if you were able to clear it awesome, if not , move on and come back aftwards. Im stateing it plain and simple, if you think a company will cater to you, you are incorrect. Every company will cater to the majority. If you dont like it or enjoy it (lol dont enjoy more content wtf?) then the game not suit you at the moment.

[Otimus]

Very short tier.


413 Guilds vs the rest of the WoW community. Please do not talk about "the rest of us" when you guys are a tiny minority.

But raiders are such a minority of the playerbase... why should they be so placated to with this stuff? Makes no sense.

[Deleted]

I'm not angry about the fact that we couldn't kill heroic bosses. I'm angry about the fact that we didn't get the chance to even try (most of them).

Particularly interested in what you say here. You have time to 'try' them next patch. If it was decided that you were a guild condoned to hitting all the bosses on heroic before the patch ends then you should have done so already, if not nearly finished by now.

It's not my guild's fault that our raiders have lives and actually wanted to visit relatives over the holidays, or had work complications, or had real life issues that caused them to quit and caused us to replace them.

Neither is it ours. You should have made arrangements for such measures. 'Our raiders having lives' is no excuse for not hitting all the heroic bosses, you have your normal progression for now.


Sometimes I lose faith in the WoW community. I have seen many people parade around saying that it's not their fault people have lives or other such reasons for the lack of progress. But really, commitment is what is necessary to pull off such a feat. Simple things like taking their computer with them, checking prehand before raiding and such is a must to do anything. Honestly, I don't care about anyone else's progression but my own (my guild), but the faster these things get pushed out the more I get to do because I put in the commitment.

I sincerely do hope this patch gets rolled out ASAP, I really can't wait. There is NO reason as to why you cannot progress in 5.2 and beyond, and no 'without nerfs' is not a valid reason. You have to push yourselves for targets, no excuses.

[IxilaFA]

Everything you just said, its not Blizzard's problem dude. They wont wait til you get more ppl becuase they had RL issues. The Tier started the first week of Octuber, if you were able to clear it awesome, if not , move on and come back aftwards. Im stateing it plain and simple, if you think a company will cater to you, you are incorrect. Every company will cater to the majority. If you dont like it or enjoy it (lol dont enjoy more content wtf?) then the game not suit you at the moment.

I apologize if my post comes off as a whining, poor-me kind of post. I understand Blizzard can't fix the personal problems my guild was having at the start of the expansion.

But I know they could just allow for more room. I'm not looking at this from a biased point of view. I'm looking at it from the point of view that only a small few people have been able to down Sha of Fear even on Normal mode. That's just not right. If they're going to keep using LFR as an excuse to why it's acceptable that a small number of actual raiding guilds should be able to down content, then I guess their philosophy is just not in line with what I've always expected from Blizzard.

And you're right, if I'm not enjoying it, I probably will quit. I can already foresee myself not having the energy to restart the valor grind, restart the daily grind, and restart the LFR grind all over again to be raid ready for the next tier. The question is, do you think it's acceptable that 70% of the raiding population (probably more, since my guild has downed Sha of Fear, and thensome) should feel the same way as I do? Unfulfilled, rushed, worn out from the endless grind of this expansion?

[FloridaElement]

I dont mind it one bit, and my guild has yet to clear Normal HoF. Due to rebuilding 3x since MoP dropped, and swapping servers.No big deal imo unless they release a raid that is buggy as hell. thats a pain in the ass. There is no need to rush the patch this soon,but if its quality then its ok with me.I can understand the frustrations of people who wanted to down Heroic Sha before Throne drops , but hey you've got a better chance to down it now with the improved gear =/.

[Madruga]

I really think it is too soon. My guild is not even half way through heroic bosses yet.

But I find it is ironic... Most times it is "too late", now that they are rushing patches we find out that it is "too soon" and we (the vast majority) don't have enough time to finish the tier.

We sure are a tough crowd.

[Deleted]

The "vast majority" isn't intended to full clear the heroic raids before the next tier is released, Dragon Soul has spoiled raiders since everyone could steamroll through the heroics with the relative ease of the tier coupled with the high stacking buff.

This will probably serve as a bit of a reality check for a lot of guilds - you either put in more effort or you don't complete the tier.

Once again, it was definitely a long tier compared to the time available though

[IxilaFA]

Particularly interested in what you say here. You have time to 'try' them next patch. If it was decided that you were a guild condoned to hitting all the bosses on heroic before the patch ends then you should have done so already, if not nearly finished by now.

We are not a guild committed to hitting all the bosses on heroic and I've never once made that claim. However, we are a guild that for the last two tiers had made significant progress in heroics (4/7H T12, 8/8H T13) so we were at least hoping to get a good way into heroics for this tier.

Neither is it ours. You should have made arrangements for such measures. 'Our raiders having lives' is no excuse for not hitting all the heroic bosses, you have your normal progression for now.

What arrangements do you make? My work had scheduling issues when one of our coworkers went out for maternity leave. Do I demand that my work give me the time off so I can play a video game? Other people literally took like two weeks straight off for holidays, because family is important to them. Like I said, we're not trying to be best of the best here. But we do like to see some of the heroic content, and taking a week off raiding in the middle of progression shouldn't stop us from that goal. It never has before.


I think one of the main problems here is time. Time is a limiting factor for a lot of guilds and it just feels like there wasn't enough of it in this tier. Even the most hardcore minded players have to admit that 22 weeks is not a lot of time to clear 16 bosses.

[Viradiance]

Wow... A new tier in two weeks.

My guild just got out first Will of the Emperor Normal 10 kill.

[Otimus]

I apologize if my post comes off as a whining, poor-me kind of post. I understand Blizzard can't fix the personal problems my guild was having at the start of the expansion.

But I know they could just allow for more room. I'm not looking at this from a biased point of view. I'm looking at it from the point of view that only a small few people have been able to down Sha of Fear even on Normal mode. That's just not right. If they're going to keep using LFR as an excuse to why it's acceptable that a small number of actual raiding guilds should be able to down content, then I guess their philosophy is just not in line with what I've always expected from Blizzard.

And you're right, if I'm not enjoying it, I probably will quit. I can already foresee myself not having the energy to restart the valor grind, restart the daily grind, and restart the LFR grind all over again to be raid ready for the next tier. The question is, do you think it's acceptable that 70% of the raiding population (probably more, since my guild has downed Sha of Fear, and thensome) should feel the same way as I do? Unfulfilled, rushed, worn out from the endless grind of this expansion?

But the thing is, is that 100% of the raiding population is such a tiny number. WHY should they be placated to? what"s the reasoning? MOST people will never step foot into a normal version of a raid. WHY should the decisions for content be made around what only about 5-10% of the paying playerbase even does? What's the logic in that?

[IxilaFA]

But the thing is, is that 100% of the raiding population is such a tiny number. WHY should they be placated to? what"s the reasoning? MOST people will never step foot into a normal version of a raid. WHY should the decisions for content be made around what only about 5-10% of the paying playerbase even does? What's the logic in that?

Because the problem is that they're not giving the 10% of the people who enjoy that part of the content enough time to enjoy it. I'm right there with you in admitting that Blizzard probably isn't focusing on how many guilds have downed the tier before they push out the next one. So that leads me to my next question of "Why even bother making these modes anymore?" If they're going to spend the time and money to develop Normal and Heroic mode, they need to at least give ample time for the people who will see that content. I'm not saying "Let's wait until everyone downs the content," and like I said before, I've never made that claim. I'm saying that 22 weeks was simply not enough time when you figure in other circumstances (holidays, time to level up, etc).

[Dastuross]

I just started my 10m raiding guild last month. we should be able to clear 16/16 Normal and hit the ground running hard in T15.

[Zoldor]

yeah another 3 weeks would have been nice, we had to do that first tier shuffle as per-normal. I hate the first tier of raid each expansion. Always leads to shuffling, so we are behind this teir which sucks...first time since, well since BC I guess that we didn't finish the tier on time. Oh well, looks like this expansion is less about progression and more about finding ways to keep the passed content valid. IE I'm sure I won't be out of MSV and HoF and ToES by the time the next launches. Even though T15 is really insane item level jump. 522 is a long ways from 509.

---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 08:13 PM ----------

This forum amazes me.

Cata, long pauses between tiers That have 7 bosses -- "bliz you suck, get content out faster!!!"
MoP - "Blizz you suck, you're going too fast! For a tier with 16 bosses at the start of the expansion when we have to level and deal with Christmas"

Blizzard can't seem to find the happy medium, it seems.

Let me edit this for you. That might make it easier to understand.

[Hondoshaver]

Nope, not rendering anything pointless, Blizzard doesn't need to wait til everyone and thier mother kills a heroic boss. Thats not how it works. Would you rather have the 30% debuff then everyone would be able to kill it but then it would make the boss essentially a joke. Im sorry but no, thats not how it works. You can always go back to that Tier afterwards. Waiting for ppl to kill bosses is one of the reasons that made Tiers last for 7++ months, which is not ideal AT ALL. You want to see a boss? Do LFR you want a challenge? Do heroics, you dont NEED or aren't entitled to kill heroic Bosses. Im sorry if I sound like an ass, but thats how it is. You have the oportunity to kill bosses, if you didnt make it, too bad you can go back afterwards anyway.

Thanks to LFR blizzard will be pushing things out faster, since that is what the majoirity of people will be doing/seeing. This is a good thing. Another good reason why LFR should be praised.

100% Agreed. Sorry your heroic raiding guild isn't as badass as you thought it was, now start enjoying the content instead of BEE-Lining through everything so fast you have no idea what it is you acomplished.

[Iamanerd]

I'm happy it's coming out soon! But I don't understand why people are now upset that it's coming out "too soon"? I mean isn't that what everyone wanted in the first place?

[Buu]

You can doubt all you want but its confirmed.

https://twitter.com/Bashiok/status/301013346717663232

Personally, I am happy for the new tier. Nothing left to do here so might as well keep it moving!

With the WYSIWYG style of development WoW assumed in MoP, I don't get why people doubt that 4 days are enough for last tweaks.

[NeverStop]

Because the problem is that they're not giving the 10% of the people who enjoy that part of the content enough time to enjoy it. I'm right there with you in admitting that Blizzard probably isn't focusing on how many guilds have downed the tier before they push out the next one. So that leads me to my next question of "Why even bother making these modes anymore?" If they're going to spend the time and money to develop Normal and Heroic mode, they need to at least give ample time for the people who will see that content. I'm not saying "Let's wait until everyone downs the content," and like I said before, I've never made that claim. I'm saying that 22 weeks was simply not enough time when you figure in other circumstances (holidays, time to level up, etc).

22 weeks is a really long time. People who commit more time to the game should get better progression than people who commit less time.

[dercaderca]

Good. I can't wait for s12 to be over.