Oondasta targeted at heroic raiders only

[Wildtree]

I believe people misreading or misinterpreting heroic here......
The way I understand it is, that - unlike sha and galleon - you need to be heroic geared. All shiny epics..
For Sha and Galleon all you need is to be there. For Sha, even level 86 can get carried.. Galleon would be the same and the highest requirement is patience to camp it.

[Karazee]

They'll be stubborn idiots at first then recant and nerf him. Some servers are too small to even have heroic raid groups, let alone multiple of them to organize with

Use oQueue. I would be shocked if there were not plenty of oQueue groups forming to kill Oondasta, especially a combination of lower pop servers.

[Shaley]

I believe people misreading or misinterpreting heroic here......
The way I understand it is, that - unlike sha and galleon - you need to be heroic geared. All shiny epics..
For Sha and Galleon all you need is to be there. For Sha, even level 86 can get carried.. Galleon would be the same and the highest requirement is patience to camp it.

I don't think so. They've used the term "organized raid group" before, but this time they bold-highlighted "Heroic".

[Wildtree]

Can I just ask how people's FPS is during Sha of Anger/Galleon kills on a high population server? How much does your performance drop when there's 100+ people all fighting the boss at once?

One of the main reasons I objected to the concept of a heroic world boss is because I think for the majority of people the FPS issues caused by having so many players present make surviving a heroic boss increasingly unlikely.

Lets be honest here; you'll likely see about two full groups of heroic raiders plus one or two full groups of average raiders plus all the randoms that try to join in all trying to kill the boss together, plus there's all the random people that just fly overhead and watch. I can't imagine any PC could handle that many people without causing performance issues that will lead to death.

My performance goes to shits on Sha...
40 man drags it down already, but with multi groups i'm getting to the point of being locked up several seconds. Especially when someone pops Lust.. Then it's over for about 10 - 20 seconds. With DPS toons, I perform around 60%. Only my healer can perform semi-good. I kind of know when the freeze starts, and playing a druid, I pop tranquility right before I lock up. Gives me several seconds time until I recover again. Usually I end up in the top 2 heals done...
Tells me, the others lagging as bad as I am.

[Deleted]

I doubt it's gonna get nerfed before 5.4. The change to Galleon's spawn time doesn't come until his tier is outdated. I suspect the same will happen to Oondasta.

Seconding this. They're giving the casuals their loot pinata, and I imagine this one will be tuned to give rewards befitting ''Heroic Level raiders''. And then come next patch there may be even MORE new world bosses, with this one being nerfed into triviality.

I can believe that its meant to be hard as well. Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, he has one of those classic ''Chain Lightning that gets more rapey with each jump''. Imagine what that would do to bad players/rag tag PuG raids/ Literal one shotting of entire raid groups. Hilarious.

[Wildtree]

I don't think so. They've used the term "organized raid group" before, but this time they bold-highlighted "Heroic".

Organized Raid group only means that you have to organize the tasks. Again, look at Sha and Galleon... Zero organizing needed..

They've long announced that they want the new bosses, especially the Galleon successor to be more like the old world bosses again. Which is a great idea quite frankly. World bosses should not be super trivial and even more so, they should not be possible to be camped. And they should require at least some organization and gear.

[Deleted]

BLIZZARD WE WANT MORE CHALLENGES

-Blizzard creates a challenge

BLIZZARD WUT R YOU TINKING?

This is how a grand portion of the PvE community sounds like.

Yeah, that's two separate groups of PvE players complaining then.

[Shaley]

Organized Raid group only means that you have to organize the tasks. Again, look at Sha and Galleon... Zero organizing needed..

They've long announced that they want the new bosses, especially the Galleon successor to be more like the old world bosses again. Which is a great idea quite frankly. World bosses should not be super trivial and even more so, they should not be possible to be camped. And they should require at least some organization and gear.

I still disagree. They specifically said "Heroic-level raid group" , and then reiterated it. The other phrases that could've been used are "Organized raid-group" or "Normal-level raid group".

40 Heroic-level raiders will be able to kill him before herpaderps run in and grief chain lightning to everyone ; while normal geared raids will only be able to get him to 50% before people start running in to "help"

Edit: Heroic at this time meaning anyone ilvl 500+. Anyone that is 470-485ish is going to get annihilated by this boss.

[Wondercrab]

What about it doesn't make sense? The fact that not everyone will be able to kill it?

I'm not one of those players who demands that I be granted challenges and game stuff that other people are excluded from, but I'm also not one who thinks everything should have to be dumbed down to my arbitrary level, so I for one don't see how this is a problem.

It's not to do with the level of challenge, it's the context they're choosing to present that challenge in. If this was an instanced boss, it'd be totally fine. If they hadn't changed the faction-tapping mechanics for 5.2, it'd be more understandable. But what we have now is a case of differing game mechanics working against each other to create frustrating and clunky gameplay.

The purpose of challenging bosses in WoW is to force players to plan, strategise, and master the mechanics of a given encounter. That's a cool, fun, rewarding method of design.
The new faction tagging system (and, to a lesser extent, the fact that this is a world boss) works against that type of design. The design intent of a hard boss encourages a coordinated group to execute a complex strategy, but the design intent of faction-tagging encourages every single nearby player to jump in on the action. Looking at the mechanics of Oondasta, additional players jumping into the fight will actively sabotage the careful planning of a coordinated raid group, allowing things like chain lightning to wipe out members of the raid through no fault on their part.
One game system is clearly working against the other here. "Everyone can/should join in" has been paired with "if everyone joins in, they'll get you killed".
Then you have the fact that it's a world boss, which allows things like griefing, or denying the opposing faction the kill (both on PvP and PvE realms this time).

Complex raid encounters are satisfying because of a very specific and well-established set of rules that supplement them. Rules like instancing (to prevent outside interference/griefing), player limits (to prevent the number of people from trivialising the boss), and a roster full of reliable players that know how to work together as a team (there's a reason PvE pugs don't tend to be much fun).

The design of Oondasta works against a lot of the things that make challenging PvE encounters successful and enjoyable. I'm not one to call something bad just because it's new and different, but there are some pretty glaring examples of conflicting design at work here.

[zoomgpally]

Some servers can't get 10 ppl at max level ? Because a heroic raid group only requires 10 people...

Because all players want to raid at all...

---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 08:05 PM ----------

How is it a poor implementation? The only reason I see people not liking this is because they wont be able to kill it. It is no different than a heroic only boss inside an instance. Most people dont kill those either, and they dont whine about it.

Ever met 200 players of the other faction trying to wipe you inside an instance?

[Nzete]

I've written this boss off completely as impossible. Low population server. Other faction dominates. RP-PvP (so there will be griefing).

Our guild has three 10s (6/6H, 3/6H, 4/4N), (3/6H, 6/6N, 4/4N), and (not completely cleared on normal).

Next alliance guild is (3/6H), the next is (1/6H and Sha not dead). Next is "hasn't clear HoF".

There have been maybe 5 Alliance kills of Galleon this expansion - and a couple were before the pvp horde got to 90. Wowprogress has 15 of the top 20 raiding guilds being horde. (One alliance guild that is still listed has imploded, and the members that were still interested in raiding are now part of our guild.)

I don't see get 40 heroic raiding alliance players to kill that boss... ever. Getting 40 people for Sha works... sort of... but a lot of the recent groups I've been in have been barely killing the boss even without horde "help" because the people who want to do Sha don't understand the concept of "killing adds/dpsing down MC targets".

[darkone238]

I've written this boss off completely as impossible. Low population server. Other faction dominates. RP-PvP (so there will be griefing).

Our guild has three 10s (6/6H, 3/6H, 4/4N), (3/6H, 6/6N, 4/4N), and (not completely cleared on normal).

Next alliance guild is (3/6H), the next is (1/6H and Sha not dead). Next is "hasn't clear HoF".

There have been maybe 5 Alliance kills of Galleon this expansion - and a couple were before the pvp horde got to 90. Wowprogress has 15 of the top 20 raiding guilds being horde. (One alliance guild that is still listed has imploded, and the members that were still interested in raiding are now part of our guild.)

I don't see get 40 heroic raiding alliance players to kill that boss... ever. Getting 40 people for Sha works... sort of... but a lot of the recent groups I've been in have been barely killing the boss even without horde "help" because the people who want to do Sha don't understand the concept of "killing adds/dpsing down MC targets".

Venture Co?

[Jacob6875]

Seems a bit silly of Blizzard to do this with the addition of the new tag system. I can just flameshock the boss and let the "organized heroic level raid group" kill it and I get the same chance at loot as they do.

This will also suck on low pop servers and for 10M guilds (unless Blizzard is going to balance it for 10 people but they it would be pretty easy)

[SilentSneakz]

How many open spots?

[Erolian]

Well seeing as how you can heal sha of anger on a level 85 and not get entirely carried if you're geared from heroic DS I'd hope one of these guys would be a little harder

[Poizo]

All challenges in WoW get nerfed, this boss won't be an exception

[Scottyjscizzle]

I'm sorry but the omg fps argument is crap sorry your build is crap but don't screw the game because having more than 10 people makes you cry.

[Cairm]

The mechanics of the boss are known if i recall. Stuffl like chain lightning with exponential growth for each player hit, are the kind of things that naje the 200 player zerg quite impossible. But still, theres no boss that a 200 person raid can't kill (minus Khazak!)

[Theendgamelv3]

Couldn't people just piggy back this boss? I mean is it really much of a challenge if I and 100 others fight the boss with 2 elite guilds on the server? Unless the deal with this boss is, if you die you get no loot, I don't see a problem here lol.

[Deleted]

Couldn't people just piggy back this boss? I mean is it really much of a challenge if I and 100 others fight the boss with 2 elite guilds on the server? Unless the deal with this boss is, if you die you get no loot, I don't see a problem here lol.

There's one huge problem.
Having the top guilds on your realm do all the work for you, while you run along and claim the same reward as they, simply isn't fair.