Complaining about 5.2 coming too EARLY?

[Otimus]

I assume you mean that if a player has time to do LFR, then they have time to raid at a level capable of taking down heroic raids. That works great for someone with a set schedule that never (or extremely rarely) varies, and/or is available during times that line up with the raiding schedule of a guild capable of taking down heroic raid content. But there are many highly skilled players for whom neither of those things are true. Again, skill (or lack thereof) is not the only reason someone would run LFR exclusively.

In my case, it's just extreme social anxiety, and not wanting to use vent and the like with strangers, or feel that I'm being judged by people I'll have to "deal with". It'd seriously cause me to have a panic attack, and I play the game to relax and have fun. I know people will laugh at me and insult me for that, but that's absolutely the only reason I don't do stuff like that, as a fairly skilled player.

Other reasons I could imagine for other people, would be that it's hard to find a "team" so to speak, that wants their class and role, along with scheduling. There's many reasons people don't do that stuff.

Look at the statistics on raiding. Very few people do it. Below 5% at the worst of times, around 20% or so at the best of times. You can't chalk all of that up to skill. You can't even, I imagine, chalk a majority of it, even, to just skill. Hell, there's probably more people who simply don't know raiding EXISTS than there are people who are not doing it from the "lack of skills", or whatever.

[Gurbz]

Only 5 months is hardly a fair shot, it should be at least 8 for that amount of bosses.

An 8 month raid tier would be FAR too long, and would also be the longest lasting raid tier, regardless of size, with the exception of ICC and DS which both came at the end of expansions and were thus of an artificially extended length. 32+ weeks for 16 bosses is grossly excessive.

[DakonBlackblade]

In my case, it's just extreme social anxiety, and not wanting to use vent and the like with strangers, or feel that I'm being judged by people I'll have to "deal with". It'd seriously cause me to have a panic attack, and I play the game to relax and have fun. I know people will laugh at me and insult me for that, but that's absolutely the only reason I don't do stuff like that, as a fairly skilled player.

Other reasons I could imagine for other people, would be that it's hard to find a "team" so to speak, that wants their class and role, along with scheduling. There's many reasons people don't do that stuff.

Look at the statistics on raiding. Very few people do it. Below 5% at the worst of times, around 20% or so at the best of times. You can't chalk all of that up to skill. You can't even, I imagine, chalk a majority of it, even, to just skill. Hell, there's probably more people who simply don't know raiding EXISTS than there are people who are not doing it from the "lack of skills", or whatever.

Actualy the reasons why you dont raid is actualy a fairly common one and youre more tham right skill is the least of the problems stopping ppl from raiding on heroic level (and lets be honest its not easy but it realy sint that hard, ppl act like raiding heroics is just for the WoW genious or whatever, its not, average Joes can do pretty well with some dedication and patience).

Dont know bro but maybe you could try to use some form of very casual raiding as a way to help with your social anxiety not sure if that could help ya.

[Deleted]

Hell, there's probably more people who simply don't know raiding EXISTS than there are people who are not doing it from the "lack of skills", or whatever.

It takes ALOT to not know that raiding exists, lol.

[Osmeric]

The people doin 10k are not doing it because they suck at playing, they do it because they know they can go afk and do nothing while pulling down loot.

Right. This is why LFR really needs to be augmented with personal accountability, for example by keeping track of some sort of performance score and modifying the rewards based on that score.

[Deleted]

An 8 month raid tier would be FAR too long, and would also be the longest lasting raid tier, regardless of size, with the exception of ICC and DS which both came at the end of expansions and were thus of an artificially extended length. 32+ weeks for 16 bosses is grossly excessive.

32 bosses if you count normal mode bosses, which are required to start on heroic. 1 week per boss is more than reasonable, 8 months would be perfect.

[judgementofantonidas]

I assume you mean that if a player has time to do LFR, then they have time to raid at a level capable of taking down heroic raids. That works great for someone with a set schedule that never (or extremely rarely) varies, and/or is available during times that line up with the raiding schedule of a guild capable of taking down heroic raid content. But there are many highly skilled players for whom neither of those things are true. Again, skill (or lack thereof) is not the only reason someone would run LFR exclusively.

where do you draw the line when making excuses to support a statement that ANY world class player would allow (insert excuse here) to relegate themselves to "only running raid finder". They wouldn't they would unsub.

[Gurbz]

32 bosses if you count normal mode bosses, which are required to start on heroic. 1 week per boss is more than reasonable, 8 months would be perfect.

If your raid is capable of killing a heroic boss, never mind clearing the heroic raids, then there is no way that clearing normal should take 4 months. And if it does take you 4 months to clear normal, then it will take your raid FAR longer than an additional 4 months to clear the heroic content. 5-6 months is more than enough time for a raid tier. 7 at the most, but you would hear a ton of complains about the lack of content.

[judgementofantonidas]

32 bosses if you count normal mode bosses, which are required to start on heroic. 1 week per boss is more than reasonable, 8 months would be perfect.

I dissagree. I have three players in my ten man team that cannot operate the constructs. No matter how it is explained and how many times we wipe they still continue to not press one, after the dbm warning, after the extremely slow cast bar, and after the 9 other players telling them in mumble to press it. We are therefor stuck at ambershaper not due to lack of skill at anyones class but due to what in my opinion is a stupid vehicle fight. 3 weeks of 1-2 nights a week. Stuck.

[Gurbz]

where do you draw the line when making excuses to support a statement that ANY world class player would allow (insert excuse here) to relegate themselves to "only running raid finder". They wouldn't they would unsub.

Why? Again, you are making the (highly incorrect) assumption that simply because a player has the skill to participate at a world class level, that they would not only automatically be interested in doing exactly that, but would equally be uninterested in doing anything else nor have any other motivation for playing the game. You are at this point either being intentionally stubborn, or are completely ignorant if the idea that different people have different motivations and circumstances, making it impossible to issue a blanket statement such as you are trying to do.

[Subbversion]

My guild is 10/16H and about to push 12/16H. I wouldn't mind another 2 months in this tier to clear the content, we could probably do it in just another 4 weeks if we had to. We had a late start and rough times raiding around the holidays this tier. I don't think this tier has been 'drawn out'.

[judgementofantonidas]

Why? Again, you are making the (highly incorrect) assumption that simply because a player has the skill to participate at a world class level, that they would not only automatically be interested in doing exactly that, but would equally be uninterested in doing anything else nor have any other motivation for playing the game. You are at this point either being intentionally stubborn, or are completely ignorant if the idea that different people have different motivations and circumstances, making it impossible to issue a blanket statement such as you are trying to do.

I can see your opinion and where it comes from. However it is a non arguement to state that a player capable of raiding lets say as low as top us 500 would be content with LFR. If that were the case I would have a LOT more sub players on my bench.

[Deleted]

Speaking of top 500, Sha HC still doesn't even have 500 guilds who killed him yet. In the US region alone there are even less than 100 guilds who killed him. The current tier needs to last at least several more months.

[Miko]

His statement is totally accurate. Just because someone runs only LFR does not mean they are bad. It could very easily mean that their schedule does not allow for scheduled raiding, thus LFR is their only option. People who picked up this game when they were in their teens or early 20s, the ones chasing world firsts in Vanilla and TBC, are now in their mid 20s to early 30s and likely have jobs, families, and other commitments that have lowered their available playing time. It doesn't mean they got bad. It just means they can't hold to a Mon-Thurs 4 hours a night raiding schedule any longer.

This is true, I dont 100% do HC anymore. Job kids wife makes it hard to pull the raid times and still be able to pvp and do the other stuff on wow I like to do. Been doing lfr a pug normal, but when my guild asks me to come and dps/heal/tank a HC boss I fit right in. Its not like HC are actually as hard as people make them out to be they just require you to put in the time to learn the fights and the people you are playing with.

[judgementofantonidas]

Right. This is why LFR really needs to be augmented with personal accountability, for example by keeping track of some sort of performance score and modifying the rewards based on that score.

cannot agree more. I actually think that LFR should be used as a means to SEE or practice the mechanics. Remove the loot and you will have people in there that are there for a purpose.

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 02:00 PM ----------

This is true, I dont 100% do HC anymore. Job kids wife makes it hard to pull the raid times and still be able to pvp and do the other stuff on wow I like to do. Been doing lfr a pug normal, but when my guild asks me to come and dps/heal/tank a HC boss I fit right in. Its not like HC are actually as hard as people make them out to be they just require you to put in the time to learn the fights and the people you are playing with.

right. thank you for stepping up. exactly how happy would you be, and would you choose to run LFR only?

[Pann]

I can see your opinion and where it comes from. However it is a non arguement to state that a player capable of raiding lets say as low as top us 500 would be content with LFR. If that were the case I would have a LOT more sub players on my bench.

Just because someone is capable of doing something why do you think they would want to? There are plenty of people who are capable of performing in high ranked guilds who simply do not have the time and/or the inclination to dedicate to full time raiding. There are, also, those that think that playing with their friends is more important than some purple pixels and a few achievements as well as those that do not see the point of beating the content on multiple difficultie, in short there are many reasons why someone would be content with LFR

[judgementofantonidas]

Speaking of top 500, Sha HC still doesn't even have 500 guilds who killed him yet. In the US region alone there are even less than 100 guilds who killed him. The current tier needs to last at least several more months.

and there it is.

[Deathgoose]

Wow hard to believe how many people in this thread are 16/16hc

You don't have to be 16/16h to be of the opinion that heroic implies an optional level of difficulty that is not required to see the content, but it is required you elevate your gameplay to a certain level in order to achieve this. Some people have done it. That is what makes them world class guilds. If you didn't, that's okay, it just means you're not a world class guild.

And that's not meant as an insult, it's just a statement of fact. The only way anyone could take that as an insult is if they have waaay too much personal pride invested in a fucking video game, but then that speaks of other issues which are well off-topic of this thread.

So for the vast majority of the people that aren't 16/16hc and don't want it delayed, it's because we don't care about World 401st nor anyone's FoS.

[Miko]

cannot agree more. I actually think that LFR should be used as a means to SEE or practice the mechanics. Remove the loot and you will have people in there that are there for a purpose.

---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 02:00 PM ----------



right. thank you for stepping up. exactly how happy would you be, and would you choose to run LFR only?

I am normally a happy person all the time, I play wow for the fun of it and can normally find a good time in just about anything. LFR makes it able for me to be able to see some fights and have a "raid" night even if I don't have the time to bash my face into a HC boss for a few days. I haven't ever really ecountered any bosses in wow that couldn't be overcome with just a little time spent on them. I am a normal player at best. I do think some HC raiders want ppl to look up at them, when in all honestly anyone can do it we just need the time and a good group. As it sits now I love the normal modes where you can log on and clear it out in a few hours and get some laughs and loot, because tomorrow I may have RL things or tomorrow I may want to do dailys or fish.


I will add that if the lfr group has bad and it normally will. They don't bother me as long as we can get it down. I don't like to wipe, but as long as it dosn't happen over and over its really not an issue for me. The loot that drops(for others lol never from me) is a good thing it helps if a player has that loot and wants to try to do a normal or so.

[asphyx5]

So glad patch is coming feb 26th or mar 5th, wanna play some new content, At this rate 5.3 won't be to long prob with new 5 man dungeons. People complaining not enough time to progress in current raid either accept whats coming or play a different game, cause releasing new content faster is what warcraft needs rather its quality or quantity it's a long time coming.