[Holy] Throne of Thunder 2H mace

[velspine]

Where did you read he was trying to explain fistweaving ? It was just speculation based on the presence of 2H INT mace and requests to blues to give Hpallies a similar mechanic : https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...97047126020096.

We just don't want to see those kind of mechanics implemented as Holy Paladin... no one here entered in the details of WDmg impact or anything. You're flaming on your own here

Frankly I hate using a fan; also, another reason (besides disliking "fistweaving") that being "required" to use a mace, or having to try to consider survival/throughput tradeoffs doesn't really appeal to me.

Ok didn't bring up wpn damage my bad.

[Deleted]

Okay, I'll make it slow and easy then :
We don't want mechanics that would force us to wield 2H INT weapon even if we get a "fistweaving-like" mechanics... (which means : healing techniques via melee abilities no more no less). At no instant whatsoever anyone intended to describe fistweaving in particular.

On topic : 2H mace really is iconic to paladin though, and my retribution would love to xmog this if I don't get the Polearm

[Deleted]

Obvious problem i see is when ever i have the chance to melee i usually do so to regain mana, this wep will be too slow to really do that.

[Yzyz]

Am I the only one that's completely against turning Holy into a "fist-weaving" type spec?

I'd hate it personally. I couldn't even imagine the QQ we would get in regards to PVP.

One thing you didn't take into account is the decreased upgrade cost if this was actually a viable BiS option

Obviously not going to come into effect until 5.3, but you're getting the bonus stats for half the price which may just tip the balance if your spirit is looking good enough

Excellent point. I feel as if this is the tier that intellect will start passing up spirit. The amount of passive spirit through armor/trinkets may just be enough to keep up at a comfortable regen level while being able to put more focus on thoroughput stats.

Pretty much this. But most physical AoE isn't armor mitigated (surprise), that said I can readily think of some that is (Death Blossom), and also there are fights in 5.2 if I recall (at least one?) where you are forced to tank a mob fixated on you.

Meh. With my plate gear and CDs, I feel more then ok to lose the armor from the shield.

If only it was viable...


A girl can dream though

one day...

It is completely viable just not optimal. If you are in top guilds, probably not the best idea. If not, why not have fun with it?!

[velspine]

Okay, I'll make it slow and easy then :
We don't want mechanics that would force us to wield 2H INT weapon even if we get a "fistweaving-like" mechanics... (which means : healing techniques via melee abilities no more no less). At no instant whatsoever anyone intended to describe fistweaving in particular.

On topic : 2H mace really is iconic to paladin though, and my retribution would love to xmog this if I don't get the Polearm

I totally forgot you and some other person were the voices of the whole paladin community please forgive me,

also

If you would read what I said, monks aren't 'forced' ( I think you kiddos are using this word wayyyyy to much in wow now ) into using a 2h weapon to maximize there niche healing, I use a 1h sha touched weapon with a fan and do just as much healing as the monk with the 2h staff sha touched weapon via melee healing.

[nightfalls]

Frankly I hate using a fan; also, another reason (besides disliking "fistweaving") that being "required" to use a mace, or having to try to consider survival/throughput tradeoffs doesn't really appeal to me.

Ok didn't bring up wpn damage my bad.

I was talking about using a shield versus not using one. If the 2H mace was BiS, you'd consider either using it, or using a shield (with slightly lower heal stats) on fights where you took unavoidable armor-mitigated damage.

I also dislike the idea of fistweaving and don't want it to be incorporated into the paladin rotation but that is a moot point when looking at 2H mace in 5.2. Any rotation changes would happen in 6.0 not 5.2. Separate discussion altogether.

Just because I post regarding different topics doesn't mean all of it has to be about you.

[Xs]

Meh. With my plate gear and CDs, I feel more then ok to lose the armor from the shield.

Without a shield, a Priest has more almost exactly the same damage reduction as us

[Theholypally]

You are thinking too much into this. If you don't care and aren't progressing go for it.

If you are progressing and want to be a viable healer then choose the one hander and shield. Spirit will always be better unless they change the way spirit functions or for some stupid reason you decide to reforge out of spirit. All this speculation is completely useless.

[Yzyz]

Without a shield, a Priest has more almost exactly the same damage reduction as us

And they do just fine

You are thinking too much into this. If you don't care and aren't progressing go for it.

If you are progressing and want to be a viable healer then choose the one hander and shield. Spirit will always be better unless they change the way spirit functions or for some stupid reason you decide to reforge out of spirit. All this speculation is completely useless.

I think you need to relax. If you don't want anything to do with it, then kindly leave the thread. You act as if you are the god sent of all Holy Pallies. Your word is final. If you think that spirit will always be better no matter what, you are horribly mistaken. Eventually you would get to a point where you have so much spirit that you regen more then you spend. Tell me then that spirit is more useful then mastery, haste, intell, or even crit. Don't come in here and rain on the parade. I specifically stated that the shield and 1h is BiS. No argument there. I created this thread for the excitement that the hammer was an option. To me, a 2h wielding Holy Pally is an awesome idea.

I would also argue that the hammer is 100% completely viable. You can equip it, benefit from all the stats, and put out good numbers. That makes you viable. An agility polearm is not viable. No benefit from the stats. The word you are looking for is Optimal. This is not an Optimal choice because there is better out there.

The only thing more "useless" then this speculation is your input. If you don't have anything constructive to post, then find something else to do with your time.

[Theholypally]

And they do just fine



I think you need to relax. If you don't want anything to do with it, then kindly leave the thread. You act as if you are the god sent of all Holy Pallies. Your word is final. If you think that spirit will always be better no matter what, you are horribly mistaken. Eventually you would get to a point where you have so much spirit that you regen more then you spend. Tell me then that spirit is more useful then mastery, haste, intell, or even crit. Don't come in here and rain on the parade. I specifically stated that the shield and 1h is BiS. No argument there. I created this thread for the excitement that the hammer was an option. To me, a 2h wielding Holy Pally is an awesome idea.

I would also argue that the hammer is 100% completely viable. You can equip it, benefit from all the stats, and put out good numbers. That makes you viable. An agility polearm is not viable. No benefit from the stats. The word you are looking for is Optimal. This is not an Optimal choice because there is better out there.

The only thing more "useless" then this speculation is your input. If you don't have anything constructive to post, then find something else to do with your time.

I can be the worst player in the world and i still know that spirit is our best stat, and will continue to be our best stat, for the foreseeable future of holy paladin gearing. If you think otherwise, then i feel sorry for you.

Im not arguing that you can or cannot equip it, im arguing that people are considering it a viable alternative to a one hander and an offhand, which its not. If you dont like that then why did you create the thread in the first place? Did you expect people to share your hard-on for a two-hander and that everyone would agree with you? Or that anyone with another opinion has no voice here? Sorry to burst your bubble, but this isn't your private forum.

Simple facts: The 900+ loss of spirit far outweighs any other cosmetic or spellpower increase that hammer provides. If you want to ignore that, fine. Its your choice, and its not a wrong choice, its simply not a viable raiding choice for a healer.

[Yzyz]

I can be the worst player in the world and i still know that spirit is our best stat, and will continue to be our best stat, for the foreseeable future of holy paladin gearing. If you think otherwise, then i feel sorry for you.

Im not arguing that you can or cannot equip it, im arguing that people are considering it a viable alternative to a one hander and an offhand, which its not. If you dont like that then why did you create the thread in the first place? Did you expect people to share your hard-on for a two-hander and that everyone would agree with you? Or that anyone with another opinion has no voice here? Sorry to burst your bubble, but this isn't your private forum.

Simple facts: The 900+ loss of spirit far outweighs any other cosmetic or spellpower increase that hammer provides. If you want to ignore that, fine. Its your choice, and its not a wrong choice, its simply not a viable raiding choice for a healer.

You act as if I don't know that spirit isn't our best stat. It's common knowledge. It is also common knowledge to know that when gear gets better and better, the value of spirit will get lower and lower. If you can't understand that, I don't know what to tell you.

Again, it is a viable option. Not the most optimal option. You are misunderstanding the difference between the words. You can reforge all that crit, which would equate to roughly 400+ spirit. I created the thread to share my excitement, the stats, and the validity of the mace being used. By all means you can share your thoughts. Your previous post was condescending, that is why I only called you out. Everyone has their play styles that work for them. Even in progression guilds. I will personally pick it up to toy with and I promise you that I will remain top or close to (behind disc) in healing. I know my class well. I run with 14.3k spirit unbuffed 15.6k with flask and food and frankly, I am more then comfortable. With the passive spirit on the armor, I can only imagine us being near the 18k range. I'll check BiS soon and get back to you on that.

Fact of the matter is, it is a fun post. Sorry that you don't enjoy fun and refuse to try something new. I, on the other hand, am part of a progression guild and perform very well. All while playing how I enjoy.

[nightfalls]

Again, it is a viable option. Not the most optimal option. You are misunderstanding the difference between the words. You can reforge all that crit, which would equate to roughly 400+ spirit. I created the thread to share my excitement, the stats, and the validity of the mace being used. By all means you can share your thoughts. Your previous post was condescending, that is why I only called you out. Everyone has their play styles that work for them. Even in progression guilds. I will personally pick it up to toy with and I promise you that I will remain top or close to (behind disc) in healing. I know my class well. I run with 14.3k spirit unbuffed 15.6k with flask and food and frankly, I am more then comfortable. With the passive spirit on the armor, I can only imagine us being near the 18k range. I'll check BiS soon and get back to you on that.

The "viable" part is fine, but I am firmly against it being the most optimal option, and having to Hobson's choice between extra armor, which we're balanced around for survival, and better stats.

Having to argue why I deserve both the 2H, 1H, AND shield and maintain all three pieces of gear, switching them in and out on a per-fight basis while priests just swap Glyph of Inner Fire (which, we're not off the hook, we'd still swap Glyph of DP) isn't anything that appeals to me. Leave this gear to the boomkins.

[Dubalicious]

You are thinking too much into this. If you don't care and aren't progressing go for it.

If you are progressing and want to be a viable healer then choose the one hander and shield. Spirit will always be better unless they change the way spirit functions or for some stupid reason you decide to reforge out of spirit. All this speculation is completely useless.

I think I'm going to try and get one of these for our first kill of Ra'den =)

Or are you saying it would be impossible to do that? =p