Jab Nerfed Again :D

[Tatuin]

Well easiet way to sepret fistweave and mistweave is already mention here. a New stance. Sure it would lead to some sort of stance dance but that could make it more fun to play this class

[Coraulten]

And we get screwed once more. Forget any clever ideas you had about abusing TP's mana return, Fistweaving is now officially a 100% closed system. What we're seeing now is a massive HPM nerf from live with no way to make up for it.

Hidden there at the top is confirmation of the 6% mana cost Jab, literally double what it is on live. Jab is now only slightly less mana than Spinning Crane Kick....

Also, buried in the patch notes are the T30 changes:

Chi Wave now does 100% more damage, but its healing reduced by 14%, and no longer costs Chi, but now has a 15 second cooldown.
Zen Sphere now has a limit of 2 (was 1), detonates when either the recipient reaches 35% health or the Zen Sphere is dispelled, and no longer costs Chi. The spell now has 10 seconds cooldown. Its damage over time increased by 22%, healing over time reduced by 61%, healing when detonated reduced by 62% and detonation area increased by 40%.
Chi Burst now does 340% more damage and healing increased by 69%, no longer costs Chi, and has a 30 second cooldown.

I have to assume those are from live, but either way there's no saving grace there. To the ground?


Edit again: Glyph of Uplift only 8% mana cost. It's a weird day when they increase the cost of a glyph that we never use because it's so expensive, and it's still the cheapest alternative now.

If i read the recent patch notes correctly they appear to be a pretty heft buff to T30 talents. I guess Those are going to be our crutch this patch. Keeping Zen sphere up, EvM on big damage spikes, Chi torpedo for aoe healing, and healing sphere to fill in gaps, this is how i see 5.2 going as it stands. Mastery buff might also fill in some gaps as well.

Obviously speculation, but it appears how single target healing will go up quite a bit while our aoe healing takes a huge hit, blizzard was probably aiming for something along these but failed pretty bad.

[DirewolfX]

That's too bad... I liked the idea of using TP as a mana restoring Chi-dump.

I really feel like our Chi spending options are too limited... I'd like another healing button that uses Chi.

As a side note: With the guaranteed detonate, Zen Sphere looks like it might finally be a contender again. It has the highest potential healing if used on CD, although it does eat more GCDs and has the potential to lose maximum healing if the target dips below 35%. Chi Burst is very close (probably beats it if you count the healing from the 2 saved GCDs every 30 seconds) and is probably the talent to pick if the fight has a lot of spike damage phases where the raid stacks, because its healing should now always be higher than Uplift. Chi wave looks rather lackluster for us...

[Cohren]

I don't understand the hostility the developers are showing towards Mistweavers. The class as a whole is already underplayed. Its as if they are punishing us for finding a loophole to circumvent their design intentions. The class is in trouble, why not give up on your dream's (developers) and work with the play style the community has pretty much universally said that they enjoy?

It's about time we start crunching some real numbers on exactly how much spirit we will need to sustain a jab jab uplift play style for 5.2. I'm about to go buy my entire server's supply of Sparkling River's Hearts. My guess is spirit will need to be 20k+ unbuffed.

[DirewolfX]

Well easiet way to sepret fistweave and mistweave is already mention here. a New stance. Sure it would lead to some sort of stance dance but that could make it more fun to play this class

Stance dancing isn't fun; just ask holy priests... Besides, their intended design is to have you dip into fistweaving when incoming damage is low to provide additional DPS and then resume non-jab healing when incoming damage gets high again. They don't want pure fistweaving as a real play style competing with 'pure' healing specs, although I suspect there is a niche for it in some guilds, where they can't handle the healing with N healers and they can't manage the DPS with N+1 healers (in particular, I see a 2.5 healer 10-man style with 2 dedicated healers and a part time DPS mistweaver or priest).

[Deleted]

I really feel like our Chi spending options are too limited..

could not agree more

We need a way to have surging mist cost chi instead of mana when we want, and a new aoe heal chi dumper, healing far less than uplift, but which doesnt rely on RenM

[Synbaby]

I don't understand the hostility the developers are showing towards Mistweavers. The class as a whole is already underplayed. Its as if they are punishing us for finding a loophole to circumvent their design intentions. The class is in trouble, why not give up on your dream's (developers) and work with the play style the community has pretty much universally said that they enjoy?

It's about time we start crunching some real numbers on exactly how much spirit we will need to sustain a jab jab uplift play style for 5.2. I'm about to go buy my entire server's supply of Sparkling River's Hearts. My guess is spirit will need to be 20k+ unbuffed.

It just seems like none of the devs actually play MW on live or ptr. Or they are constantly changing their minds about fistweave healing. I do agree with direwolf though, there just doesn't seem to be enough Chi spending options at all. And why keep raising mana cost on jab? Its just stupid...

[Tatuin]

Do priest stance dance?

[Deleted]

Do priest stance dance?

Well, Holy has the opportunity to "chakra-dance", swapping between buffs for damage, single target healing or AOE Healing. That being said, having the opportunity doesn't mean you will see it a lot, just as you won't see many Holy Priests right now . I used to heal together with a Holy Priest actually, and he was swapping Chakra occasionally knowing I could cover the raid healing, but to be fair instead of swapping Chakra he should have swapped specs.

[BuddhaBear]

Maybe I'm way out in left field here, but I really don't understand why they are trying to separate fistweaving and "standard healing" styles. I look at disc because its the closest to relate to. A disc priest could choose to "just heal" or "just smite heal" but if they combine the two it creates great synergy and ultimately uses their class to its full potential. We are monks, our style is martial arts. Kicking and punching the boss should enhance our heals. I really think they should have decreased our dps and increase our eminence. But I digress. If you don't like kicking and punching the boss, go be a druid. Its not because I want to see myself on the dps charts, I am a healer, and we have plenty of dps in our raid to do that. Its because as a monk it makes sense to kick and punch the boss.

[Bartolo]

To all those still getting overwhelmed by the changes to level 30 talents, on PTR Chi wave is currently healing for about half of what it currently heals on live and Zen sphere is ridiculous to the point that it ticks for about 2k and explodes for 18k (before the level cap of 6 persons). All this is with an average of 515 ilvl gear and in mistweaver spec.

They obviously want us to keep using Chi burst, at least in 25 man.

Changes to jab mana cost and no longer refunding mana is insane. MW is dead for 25 man, I see no reason why I would continue with this toon/spec when I know deep inside that this class is both useless and now providing totally unreliable healing as compared to other classes.

[Deleted]

Crackling Jade Lightning now scales with 231.6% of AP, up from 39%.

+ "teaching of monastery increasing damage of CJL by 100 % " :

who bets the best eminence healing way, and the more mana efficient will be spom crippy CJL spam?

EVEN, PERHAPS, some mix : MW at range, but gaining chi while CJL. I don't know but sounds totally doable

CJL has the same cost, the same chi generation but is going to heal TONS TONS more than Soothing

, I see no reason why I would continue with this toon/spec when I know deep inside that this class is both useless and now providing totally unreliable healing as compared to other classes.

Because we'll soon have a good chi generation on soothing mist, just need some more forum pression and we will eventually got what we want

[DirewolfX]

To all those still getting overwhelmed by the changes to level 30 talents, on PTR Chi wave is currently healing for about half of what it currently heals on live and Zen sphere is ridiculous to the point that it ticks for about 2k and explodes for 18k (before the level cap of 6 persons). All this is with an average of 515 ilvl gear and in mistweaver spec.

They obviously want us to keep using Chi burst, at least in 25 man.

Hmm... that doesn't match what the new tooltips say for Zen Sphere. 99 + 9% AP * 1.2 => 99 + 18% SP * 1.2 should be over 6k a tick. If that 1.2 is not the same as our Serpent Stance 20% healing buff, it'll be closer to 8k. Is this on the latest PTR? Sounds like a bug, if so...

[Tatuin]

Yea looks like this CJL will be s insane it was on beta for awhile. Was crazy much dmg

[DirewolfX]

Because we'll soon have a good chi generation on soothing mist, just need some more forum pression and we will eventually got what we want

Yeah... you don't always get what you want. I think Blizzard sees Uplift as our Circle of Healing/Wild Growth/Light of Dawn. Jab-Jab-Uplift was letting us get it consistently every 3 seconds. I think they'd rather see us do it every 6-10 seconds, which SooM spam should get us on average. We'll still have the option to Jab-Jab-Uplift or even Surge-Surge-Uplift, but it'll cost us, much like it costs Paladins to Holy Radiancex3-Light of Dawn.

Actually, with the new changes, I could see them moving back towards 4 targets on Renewing Mist. If we can't Jab-Jab-Uplift to pump out tons of Uplifts, 4-target Renewing Mist is no longer that powerful.

[Bartolo]

I think Blizzard sees Uplift as our Circle of Healing/Wild Growth/Light of Dawn.

Except those are smart heals, which Uplift is NOT.

[Deleted]

+ "teaching of monastery increasing damage of CJL by 100 % " :

who bets the best eminence healing way, and the more mana efficient will be spom crippy CJL spam?

EVEN, PERHAPS, some mix : MW at range, but gaining chi while CJL. I don't know but sounds totally doable

CJL has the same cost, the same chi generation but is going to heal TONS TONS more than Soothing




Because we'll soon have a good chi generation on soothing mist, just need some more forum pression and we will eventually got what we want

It'll do roughly 350k over it's channel period, but it has a much smaller mastery coefficient which is probably irrelevant since it does just so much more.

---------- Post added 2013-02-19 at 06:05 PM ----------

Yeah... you don't always get what you want. I think Blizzard sees Uplift as our Circle of Healing/Wild Growth/Light of Dawn. Jab-Jab-Uplift was letting us get it consistently every 3 seconds. I think they'd rather see us do it every 6-10 seconds, which SooM spam should get us on average. We'll still have the option to Jab-Jab-Uplift or even Surge-Surge-Uplift, but it'll cost us, much like it costs Paladins to Holy Radiancex3-Light of Dawn.

Actually, with the new changes, I could see them moving back towards 4 targets on Renewing Mist. If we can't Jab-Jab-Uplift to pump out tons of Uplifts, 4-target Renewing Mist is no longer that powerful.

Nah, 4 target ReM would be pretty crazy. I can see the CJL change being a lead up to a much more reliable amount of Chi generation on soothing.

[Cohren]

I think the best way to "fix" (?) the healing issue of unreliability and jab/jab/uplift has already been stated, make Uplift a CoH type of smart heal that heals x targets and be done with it. This will allow the developers to concentrate more on balancing healing vs. fistweaving without breaking the other style. The Renewing Mist charge idea isn't bad but we would still be casting it as soon as we got a charge to ensure that we had ample coverage of the raid and to reduce setup time before a time of heavy damage.

The whole Renewing Mist/Uplift mechanic always felt clunky to me anyways. Just put it out of its misery.

Edit:

Maybe make Uplift heal 2+x targets where x is equal to the number of active renewing mists.

[Deleted]

Around a 100k buff to the healing of Chi Burst, about 40k to Chi Wave. They're still terrible, working on Zen Sphere now.

Zen Sphere is just scaling 20% more effective in both detonation and HoT, the detonation has had a base heal increase too. Leads to around a 40k gain in the spell as well, similar to Chi Wave.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure anymore about what i said on the CJL, because on live, their formula doesn'tt fit at all with my AP numbers.
We'll see in a couple of hours

I don't think we can compare circle of healing with uplift: priest have POH, POM, divine star beetween their circles

WE ? have nothing