Surv: Haste vs. Mastery

[Kanadei]

So quick question because I'm at work and can't simcraft this myself:

A lot of sites like Noxxic have Survival priorities listed as Agi>Crit>Haste>Mastery.

The consensus here is Agi>Crit>Mastery>Haste.

Does anyone have numbers for why? I was trying to justify not following Askmrrobot recently (because that site has led me astray many times in the past) but without hard numbers I can't really explain why I don't have more haste on my gear.

That being said, my performance isn't an issue for my current raid and progress, so this is theoretical more than anything else.

So... Does anyone have some math off the top of their head?

[Tehterokkar]

Those sites are RARELY updated after each expansion is released.

We received a buff to SrS that increased its damage by 100% via a hotfix, that fix was enough to give Mastery the edge, and overall, probably over 90% of Hunters have BM as their other spec, and BM follows Crit > Mastery >> Haste.

Edit: Woot! 1337 Post count

[Kanadei]

Those sites are RARELY updated after each expansion is released.

We received a buff to SrS that increased its damage by 100% via a hotfix, that fix was enough to give Mastery the edge, and overall, probably over 90% of Hunters have BM as their other spec, and BM follows Crit > Mastery >> Haste.

Edit: Woot! 1337 Post count

Congrats on your post count!

As for the updating thing, I know atleast Noxxic is updated to 5.1 - was the hotfix after this?

BM is a solid point, although I rarely use my BM spec so if anyone actually has the numbers for haste vs. mastery for survival in its current state then there might be some truth to the idea that I should reforge.

I mean, its a small difference either way but id prefer to know for sure.

[Disfunctionz]

Before the SS buff there was alot of debate about mastery still being better despite what some sites say.
With the SS buff it should definitely be mastery.
Haste may be a good stat in the future of the expac when you can have enough haste to add more shots into your explosive rotation.

Overall, there is no real math out there, just sim results, and sim's have always been known to overvalue haste.

You kinda have to decide for yourself, but i'm willing to bet most hunters will tell you to go with mastery.
Also mastery is def better on aoe fights, witch is what most raiding hunters only use surv spec for anywayz.

[Deleted]

In theory haste is way stronger than mastery at least until the first breakpoint 3864 where you should get an extra dire beast attack. BUT actuall dummy tests have shown, that even with more than 3864 haste, the extra dire beast attack was actually only happening 50% of the time. That lowers the benefit of haste significantly. If it lowers the value below the one of mastery is hard to say. Mastery only affects a fraction of our dmg (about 70% in my case) but needs as much rating per percent as crit. Personaly im going crit>mastery>haste, not because I'm convinced mastery is stronger, but because I switch to BM for most of the fights.
One last thaught: The fact, that there is no clear answere to the haste-mastery-debate, could be a sign for them beeing VERY close. As a result you wouldn't lose much by choosing either.

[Tehstool]

Mastery is better than haste and situationally better. On fights like stone guard haste won't do anything to your SrS on the other target while mastery increases the damage you do. Mastery is better for aoe too.

[femur68]

As a survival hunter with ToTH I rarely use Cobra Shot. I feel like a frost DK hitting my buttons anymore as a hunter . So in my case mastery is way better than haste.

[Windthorn]

2 set t-15 will certainly give mastery the edge. I was looking at world of logs and cross referenced the armory of one top 10 survival hunter. It did seem he was favouring haste and even had his gloves with the haste enchant. I'm thinking for ST encounters haste probably is better than mastery but in aoe encounters mastery wins outright. I also think its a style preference. Some top hunters just prefer faster cobras, tried it even myself and there's not really much in it.

[Static Transit]

Idk, websites like Icy Veins say Crit>haste>mastery. However, even if you follow that priority list, it should be noted that if your Cobra Shot is down to a 1 second cast with Rapid Fire up, you probably have enough haste.

EDIT: Oh, and in 5.2 at least, both the legendary gem and the 4-set scale with mastery. Something to keep in mind.

[Kibu]

Here is the results i get from Simcraft in MY gear over 25000 iterations:

Survival:

Agility	Hit	Exp	Crit	Mastery	Haste
4.68	3.14	3.28	1.45	1.05	0.91

BM:

Agility	Hit	Exp	Crit	Mastery	Haste
4.77	3.11	3.35	1.55	1.54	1.53