Man...I'd forgotten about how difficult it is

[Deleted]

I am actually noticing alot of people basically subtlety hinting at what you say "unrealistic expectations of the playerbase"

I just returned to WoW after leaving mid november & leveled my lock straight to 90 in about a week.

I mean I remember tier 11, it was rough, but yeah I can see this I suppose.

But yeah, thanks for clearing that up even though I didn't ask. Made it a little easier to bear.

No problem, you sound like a great player looking for other great players - it will be easy to find but tough to join them, especially just before a big patch like 5.2 - what those guilds will have is players they have played with before who they are know are good returning to the game and taking up raiding spots.

I'd say your best bet would be to find a good guild that is moving from ten man or mulitiple ten man to 25 mans for the thunderforged stuff, or to wait a bit into 5.2 for the first bit of burnout to bite, whereupon you can grab a seat at the top table.

Hope that helps, it's just my thoughts on it.

[Edc]

It´s not always about the player.
If you are in a bad guild, and still run around in LFR set items some guilds just skip you cause you wont help much.
Sure it´s a cool thing to have a good DD that doesnt die. But i sucks to have a gimped one that cant bring the expected DPS no matter how good he is, because he´s kinda a whole tier behind.

That really is a bad guild yes, any good guild will pick exceptional players over geared players 7 days a week, given that the applicant supplies enough information about himself to show that hes exceptional.

To the op: Good guilds are still out there, and they are also recruiting, the problem with not finding them or not being accepted into one is your own. There are various places to find guilds and various ways to get into them, the most important thing is to realise that a first impression is a lasting one. If you start out on the wrong foot your chances to join said guild are very slim. They look at a total package of your personality, experience, knowledge of the game, availability and to a certain point your gear. The first 4 are by far the most important for any good raiding guild.

I have seen insane geared people getting declined because the applicant was a complete asshat.
I have seen insane geared people getting declined because they obviously bought their character on ebay (completely clueless about game and class mechanics)
I have seen severely undergeared people getting accepted because they have the total package, except the most easy point to correct, gear

[Deja Thoris]

It's no surprise you don't fit in when you walk in thinking everyone else is shit while you are completely awesome.

I'd say find a guild of like minded people but could 10 egos like that thrive in one place without ending the universe?

[Kurzior]

To find a half decent guild on even a high pop server...

The fact that I can pull 80% of their top 3 dps'ers dps when I'm 10-15 ilevels behind. When they have at least 6 more gem slots & possibly even sha touched weapons.

Who are still stuck in normal. Like I'm not asking to be carried through heroics & full normals, but I assume most guilds have alt groups that are in heroic progression...

I'll be perfectly honest. I've been a main tank for my guild in Wrath, healer and raid leader for cataclysm. Although I've stepped back due to time committments in MoP, I'm still healing for my guild (basically the same people since Wrath with a few additions and exceptions). I've led a decent number of pugs in my time as well, and all that has told me 2 things.

People with your attitude are bad news. If you're first statement is "look at how awesome my dps is", that tells me all I need to know about you as a player, and I know I don't have the time or the patience to put up with you. More importantly, I'm not going to subject the rest of my guild or even other pugs to putting up with someone like that for an entire raid.

Secondly, If you're really so delusional as to believe that "most" guilds are progressing into heroics on alts .... what game are you playing? Barely 30% of raiding guilds have cleared heroic Stone Guard on their mains, let alone alts. Last I checked, 30% did not equate to "most" of anything.

Bottom line, although this probably comes off as harsh, you need to seriously reconsider you attitude if you're planning on applying to good guilds, because a lot of them won't give you a second look if you're first words are criticism about how they should be so much farther in progression than they are.

[Deleted]

Its not even that. I've been 4 guilds now, 1 of them was one of those "recruit you at level 1 spam invites"

One was going to attempt to raid DS but then nobody ever showed up and I was what seemed the only one online most of the time. Then my guild back at MoP release. Which died off sometime in mid november.

And now the one I'm in now. I don't insult people harshly, I'm am a human being so words will spit out occasionally but nothing to harmful to even the thinnest of skulls.

How did you even manage to get yourself caught in a ''Level 1 spam'' guild? They usually stand out, rather a lot.

[Subbversion]

My guild raids 2 nights a week. We are 10H/16 and close to pushing 12, possibly even 13 before the tier ends. We had a lot of downtime with the holidays, started raiding two weeks late, and lost a week this week due to a raid night falling on Valentine's day. We are in the top 15 guilds in the world when it comes to 2nights/week.

We post on MMO Champion, we post in our realm forums, guild recruitment threads, etc etc. We still have a roster of 27 and want to add another 3-5 players. DPS only too, our heals and tanks are solid. We have a hard time recruiting, we can't get decent apps. And we'll pretty much accept most people who aren't retarded, can post up decent numbers, and have experience in heroic modes.

It's all about your attitude and dedication. I know if our guild was 3 or 4 nights a week, we'd have cleared the tier already.

[Callimonk]

My guild raids 2 nights a week. We are 10H/16 and close to pushing 12, possibly even 13 before the tier ends. We had a lot of downtime with the holidays, started raiding two weeks late, and lost a week this week due to a raid night falling on Valentine's day. We are in the top 15 guilds in the world when it comes to 2nights/week.

We post on MMO Champion, we post in our realm forums, guild recruitment threads, etc etc. We still have a roster of 27 and want to add another 3-5 players. DPS only too, our heals and tanks are solid. We have a hard time recruiting, we can't get decent apps. And we'll pretty much accept most people who aren't retarded, can post up decent numbers, and have experience in heroic modes.

It's all about your attitude and dedication. I know if our guild was 3 or 4 nights a week, we'd have cleared the tier already.

On the same server as you. Hi

Yah, that's basically how the two top guilds on our server have already managed to clear tier. Though, it's less about the amount of nights, and more the hours. We raid ~12 hours... I think the top raids upwards of 20? They beat us by ~2 weeks on Sha of Fear. We began our second day of attempts the night they killed it.

[thunderdragon2]

Given that I read a lot of "we've been recruiting with not much luck".

sadly i've hit this wall the last 3 guilds ive been in this xpac or they get a team and after a few raids people lose interest and the tea/guild falls apart

[S Blieft]

I haven't been in a successful guild that lasts longer than 3-4 months since BC that raids consistently.

Did ya ever stop to think maybe it's you who is the contributing factor in all these guilds who didn't make it?
Seems to me, if almost all the guilds you've ever been in didn't last more than a few months that maybe,
just maybe, it has to do with you? I'm gonna guess your one of those types who bellows about how they get
terrible customer service everywhere you go. Newsflash, it's not everyone else that sucks. It's you.

[thunderdragon2]

My guild raids 2 nights a week. We are 10H/16 and close to pushing 12, possibly even 13 before the tier ends. We had a lot of downtime with the holidays, started raiding two weeks late, and lost a week this week due to a raid night falling on Valentine's day. We are in the top 15 guilds in the world when it comes to 2nights/week.

We post on MMO Champion, we post in our realm forums, guild recruitment threads, etc etc. We still have a roster of 27 and want to add another 3-5 players. DPS only too, our heals and tanks are solid. We have a hard time recruiting, we can't get decent apps. And we'll pretty much accept most people who aren't retarded, can post up decent numbers, and have experience in heroic modes.

It's all about your attitude and dedication. I know if our guild was 3 or 4 nights a week, we'd have cleared the tier already.

i have a very good attitude very patient i've been raiding since bc inc icc fl and ds hm when they were current only problem is the realm sadly

[Angarin]

Did ya ever stop to think maybe it's you who is the contributing factor in all these guilds who didn't make it?
Seems to me, if almost all the guilds you've ever been in didn't last more than a few months that maybe,
just maybe, it has to do with you? I'm gonna guess your one of those types who bellows about how they get
terrible customer service everywhere you go. Newsflash, it's not everyone else that sucks. It's you.

Right cause, the fact that I cause almost 0 drama causes a guild to die right? Thats what your implying right? I don't cause guild drama. I vent on forums a bit, I rage about things in guild chat that aren't about the guild, but when something goes on in the guild and I don't like it. I find out the best way to fix it with a higher up. Sometimes they'll fix it, sometimes they won't. Usually its fixed without me.

I went ahead & reported your post for ignorance...I hope it serves you well.

[Axelond]

If you joined 4 different guilds in a very short time most stable hc raids would think twice before trialing you if you left 4 guilds without staying in one for at least half a year nobody likes guild hoppers and even if you don't tell them in your app. It takes 5 clicks to know all the guilds you have ever been in and they have no idea if you failed the trial or did not like the guild and by the sound of your post it sounds like the guilds you left would not be in a very good standing with you if a officer from the new guild decides to talk to them. Focus on one guild spend AT LEAST 1 hour on your app if not more if you apping to a hc guild. make sure you are in the most optimal gear/reforging ect having to reply "can you log in with your PvE gear please" is not really fun. proof read it and take your app serious provide good logs even from lfr is fine (If you rank or are top 1 dmg is irrelevant a guild will look at what spells you are using at what you are actually doing on a fight so remember to flask,potion food when you are doing logs.

If you do all that a guild with Msv maybe even HoF hc experience if they are a bit desperate for X class/spec will accept you without even 16/16 normal if your app can back it up if you end this tier with 10/16 hc and want to spend more effort and time in the game you can probably get into a 16/16hc guild in 5.2. I am in a 25 hc 16/16 guild and we get A bunch of apps and most of them are just bad copy pasted (Why would you like to join "Our guild" and they copy pasted a answer with a completely different guild name) no effort spent at all even from people with decent progress we barely consider them due the low quality of the app.
But a really good app and a class/spec that we are low of we have accepted people with a lot lower progress just because their app can back their progress up

However to go from no hc kills to a 16/16 guild you would need to sleep with the GM or something similar

[Angarin]

Yeah I think I'm just gonna leave this guild anyways. I got favorited out by some other lock who pulls less dps/damage in fights than me, same ilevel of gear, and has the same experience as me. No alts nothin in the guild from what I can see.

Should've expected this last night...

I take fault for joining a guild like this...

[AgilityTank]

We are in the top 15 guilds in the world when it comes to 2nights/week.

lmao bro. seriously?

[Angarin]

lmao bro. seriously?

quoting for the purpose of quoting

[Deja Thoris]

Yeah I think I'm just gonna leave this guild anyways. I got favorited out by some other lock who pulls less dps/damage in fights than me, same ilevel of gear, and has the same experience as me. No alts nothin in the guild from what I can see.

Should've expected this last night...

I take fault for joining a guild like this...

Has it occured to you yet thats theres more to being a valued team member than dps figures?

There is some kind of attitude or personality they are looking for, whatever it is, you don't have it. And yet you stilll harp on about dps.

[Advent]

Yeah I think I'm just gonna leave this guild anyways. I got favorited out by some other lock who pulls less dps/damage in fights than me, same ilevel of gear, and has the same experience as me. No alts nothin in the guild from what I can see.

Should've expected this last night...

I take fault for joining a guild like this...

Yes there is something seriously wrong with you thinking that the guild has a problem with your dps. Chances are they disliked your attitude and dropped you. You should probably work on that ego of yours.

[asharia]

just because you can do dps close to top guilds, doesn't make you good, sorry.

[Deleted]

To build this up; My guild's been up and running since Vanilla. We've thus far cleared 14/16 25man heroics.
We've still recruited people with fairly crap gear, ranging all the way down to 480.

Obviously I can't speak for all the guilds out there, but I'm sure many of them are like we in that we do read all the applications people submit even though their gear would be dead awful, and experience very lacking. What we do however require is a decent application, that shows us the applicant is ready to make an effort to convince us that he or she is dedicated and willing enough to both impress us and show commitment.

An application made in 3 minutes will most likely not be considered even with full heroic clearing experience and gear, due to how that person comes across and the sort of first impression the application gives.

Not all guilds, including us, picks and chooses people based on raw damage output. Overall attitude, the ability to survive (a dead dps does 0 dps) and the flexibility of a player and ability to adapt in different situations can make the biggest difference in whether a player a) gets invited for a trial, b) passes the trial and c) gets a prioritized raiding spot.

All these things said, I am not claiming you wouldn't possess these qualities, I'm merely pointing out gear and experience is indeed not the main attributes many guilds consider valuable from a guild roster point of view. We can always gear up a new player fairly quickly, but we cannot change the player as a person.

[Hakto]

Yeah I think I'm just gonna leave this guild anyways. I got favorited out by some other lock who pulls less dps/damage in fights than me, same ilevel of gear, and has the same experience as me. No alts nothin in the guild from what I can see.

Should've expected this last night...

I take fault for joining a guild like this...

This speaks volumes to me as a recruitment officer for my guild.

Edit: I am going to try and explain this to you.

Any raid guild outside the top 1-200 doesn't only care about numbers.

They care about synergy with the raid team and getting along as a team, the way you speak of the other lock is completely inappropriate when you are a new member or trial.

Secondly I suspect you are rather abrupt and even demanding in the way you speak either on vent or guild chat.

Were you asked to sit on a boss you needed gear from and complained about it as a new trial?

There is so much to read between the lines of what you have actually said.