Who's more "evil" as of now: Orcs or the Forsaken?

[Lyaelan]

If there were a set of people who were incapable of feeling positive emotions (like many of the forsaken), who existed only to survive and destroy others, and who found it totally acceptable to backstab, betray, murder, poison, enslave, and destroy others, I would have no problem utterly annihilating them. The forsaken can go. Absolutely. Bai!

[Deleted]

Again, the mere fact that Theresa the Mind-Slave exists is fairly damning as far as the Forsaken are concerned.

And there's so much more. But don't bring logic and reason into this. People will refuse to accept it.

[Ishimada]

Neither. Garrosh and Sylvanas ain't the whole Orc or Forsaken population. Even as their leaders, no.

[babo7000]

And there's so much more. But don't bring logic and reason into this. People will refuse to accept it.

No but thats only a few Forsaken, most of them are cheerful and snuggly!

[Larwood]

3rd option, neither. Bad poll is bad.

Neither is more evil? So they have exactly the same level of evil as each other? That's quite fascinating, did you use a scientific formula to reach that conclusion or something?

[Deleted]

Forsaken are very clearly the more evil if we're assessing the two as morally aggregated groups. Most forsaken NPCs are detatched at best and sociopathic at worst. That is to say they do malicious things for no good reason, a lot of the time, and lack empathy altogether. Orcs are just ready to violently assert their need for a place in the world.

[luccadeo]

The Foresaken are still more evil than the Orcs simply because there are more good Orcs that do not want to follow Garrosh. Foresaken take a certain delight in murder and torture.

[Aquamonkey]

The percentage among orcs is quite high.

Ofcourse it's higher. Their society has always promoted violence. The fault lies in their society and the traits they believe are most important. Orcs themselves aren't born bad or anything of the sort, it's just their society.

Even Thrall feels that bloodlust, even though he was "raised" by humans.

Their society might have glorified battle, but they didn't go rampaging across the entire planet killing everything in sight. They had a moral code and spiritual guidance to keep their natural thirst for battle in check. The Legion robbed them of this. An entire generation was bred under the madness induced by the Blood Curse. These Orcs were accelerated into adulthood. They skipped so many developmental processes of childhood that are crucial for morality, personality, identity, emotions, social relations, problem solving, and culture.

---------- Post added 2013-02-18 at 01:06 PM ----------

Forsaken are very clearly the more evil if we're assessing the two as morally aggregated groups. Most forsaken NPCs are detatched at best and sociopathic at worst. That is to say they do malicious things for no good reason, a lot of the time, and lack empathy altogether. Orcs are just ready to violently assert their need for a place in the world.

The Foresaken are still more evil than the Orcs simply because there are more good Orcs that do not want to follow Garrosh. Foresaken take a certain delight in murder and torture.

This is the main problem with the argument that people make for why the Forsaken are evil. People say the Forsaken are psychopathic (which they are) so they gain enjoyment from the suffering of others. Being a psychopath doesn't make someone evil. It mutes their emotions, even the good ones. They are indifferent to the suffering of others, it's not that they derive enjoyment from it. The amount of psychopathy varies between individuals. Some individuals are actually evil, some are good, most are indifferent.

[Thage]

And if you go to Silverpine you'll see that some even love their new state of being like Lord Godfrey and his Gilnean friends.

That generally falls under acceptance, because to embrace something you have to accept it by definition.

[Lupinemancer]

Orc obviously!

[Aquamonkey]

That generally falls under acceptance, because to embrace something you have to accept it by definition.

Embracing something is different than merely accepting it. And you even said there are 4 major schools of thought. That means there are others.

[Deleted]

Their society might have glorified battle, but they didn't go rampaging across the entire planet killing everything in sight. They had a moral code and spiritual guidance to keep their natural thirst for battle in check. The Legion robbed them of this. An entire generation was bred under the madness induced by the Blood Curse. These Orcs were accelerated into adulthood. They skipped so many developmental processes of childhood that are crucial for morality, personality, identity, emotions, social relations, problem solving, and culture.

And are those the same orcs that live now in Orgrimmar?

[GennGreymane]

still the forsaken.

[babo7000]

And are those the same orcs that live now in Orgrimmar?

Yea, which is why all It took was a guy who says the right things to get almost every orc to turn into a warmonger. Just like Gul'Dan had Ner'Zhul doing.

Regardless of them having their ancestors at one time to keep them in check, the Orcish Social Code has always been flawed. They put so much value on honour and strength, that the moment someone tells them a fellow race is insulting their honour and questioning their strength, be it by fighting back or simply existing (as was the Draenei case), then they all start frothing at the mouth. If the orcs don't change their values after SoO, another Garrosh is eventually going to pop out.

[Aquamonkey]

Yea, which is why all It took was a guy who says the right things to get almost every orc to turn into a warmonger. Just like Gul'Dan had Ner'Zhul doing.

Regardless of them having their ancestors at one time to keep them in check, the Orcish Social Code has always been flawed. They put so much value on honour and strength, that the moment someone tells them a fellow race is insulting their honour and questioning their strength, be it by fighting back or simply existing (as was the Draenei case), then they all start frothing at the mouth. If the orcs don't change their values after SoO, another Garrosh is eventually going to pop out.

Ummm, no... They were mislead to believe the Draenei were going to murder them all. It'd be as if a Naaru appeared to Velen and told him their only hope for survival was to preemptively attack the Orcs. They coexisted just fine for 1000 years. Durotan even rushed towards the portal to save a Draenei baby.

Thrall did try to change their values. But there is only so much you can do in a few years to change the mentality so ingrained into a society. He never restored the spiritual leader role of Elder Shaman.