A definitive Fury opener-A discussion

[Darkfriend]

I've drawn up what seems to be the three most likely scenarios for a Fury DPS opener on a single target fight. I'm curious if any refinement can be made, or if I am missing anything. Also, this can function as a guide (once perfected and checked by other warriors) for how to best maximize DPS through perfecting an opening rotation.

Legend: A small c means a crit, but is only used when said crit procs enrage. Note: All buffs are assumed, and a prepot/shout/charge are assumed.

1.) BTc-CDs/DR-Reck/CSc-RB(DC/HS/HL)-BTc(HS)-RB(HS)-RB-BTc-RB. Than go into normal rotation. This is a pretty much perfect opener RNG, with a CS crit and first BT crit, although no CS crit and an immediate 2nd BT crit might be better. However, it delays the 2nd BT by 1 GCD to prevent wasting a RB proc. Not sure if this can be improved at all. Note: One can not save the first RB proc after a CS phase ends, due to either its expiration, or the necessatiy of spending to prevent overwrites.

2.) BT-HT-Empty-BTc-CDs/DR-Reck/CSc-RB(DC/HS/HL)-BTc(HS)-RB(HS)-RB-BTc-RB. Delayed by 4.5 seconds due to non-critting of the first BT, this will give slightly more rage to spend.

3.) BT-HT-Empty-BT-B.rage-CDs/DR-Reck/CSc-RB(DC/HS/HL)-BTc(HS)-RB(HS)-RB(HS)-BTc-RB. This is the one I have the most trouble determining the proper, technical course of action. Wait too long and trinket procs/prepot will be wasted. Pop CDs too early, and you won't get 3 RBs inside the first CS. I need to test and see if its better to wait for a 3rd BT to see if it crits, or to only wait 2. Note: Dragon Roar damage is increased by enrage, even though its technically fire damage.

So, thoughts? Obviously, RNG will be a factor. Even with 31.5% crit (so ~58% BT crit chance after crit suppression) the opener will vary from pull to pull. The goal here is to come up with the best opener, for every possible (Or at least statistically probable) outcome.

One thing to note: in the CD phase, I'm using skullrender trinket. This doesn't help BT at all (Since it's already a 100% crit chance w/ reck, except for crit suppression) but the value of everything else gaining 6% crit chance (so up to 81.5% crit after suppression) seems superior to using the trinket after BB/reck faded, and with only a few seconds left on blood fury/trinkets etc. If anyone has math on using this trinket in a different manner, I'd be interested in hearing/seeing it.

[Delath]

1.) BTc-CDs/DR-Reck/CSc-RB(DC/HS/HL)-BTc(HS)-RB(HS)-RB-BTc-RB. Than go into normal rotation.

This. You can fix bad RNG with a berserker rage if either the first BT or CS don't crit. Once in a blue moon neither crits and you get the opener a bit screwed, but the likelihood is negligible. Pray you have a paladin with Salvation to stop you from pulling agro with this opener

[kakihara]

Yeah atm i try to use a bloodthirst first to build some rage pop cds dragonroar and then just standart cs +raging blows+hs etc

[Senen]

Your first rotation is the good one.
You should use Skullrender after DR, not before.
If the first BT is not a crit, use Berserker rage before DR.
If the first BT is not a crit and the CS is not a crit, don't delay BT (that means that during CS you'll do BT-RB-RB-BT).
If the first BT is a crit and the CS is not a crit, use Berserker rage.

If the first BT is a crit and the CS is a crit, I usually use Berserker rage to get an extra RB before the end of Recklessness (BT-DR-Recklessness+CS-RB-BT-RB-RB-BT-RB-RB), but I'm not sure if it's really the best way to use Berserker rage.

---------- Post added 2013-02-18 at 08:17 AM ----------

Also, you're only doing three HS during CS. If you have more than 40 rage (and you may have, depending on the rng), use a fourth HS with the third RB.

[Delath]

If the first BT is a crit and the CS is a crit, I usually use Berserker rage to get an extra RB before the end of Recklessness (BT-DR-Recklessness+CS-RB-BT-RB-RB-BT-RB-RB), but I'm not sure if it's really the best way to use Berserker rage.

I tend to save it for the next CS window in this scenario to ensure enrage and fit more RB's in it.

EDIT: Some opener guidelines should be included in the stickied guide... we have been over this quite a few times already.

[Opeth69]

BT - HT - DR (all cds apart from reck popped just before) - BT (with reck) - CS - RB - BT - RB - RB (with HS used pretty much on cd during cs) this pretty much always feels like the best opener to me

[Mataru]

It really depends on trinket procs for me, also threat tends to be a bit of a problem if open with cooldowns right away. Usually I will do BT into HT or use bloodsurge if it procs, then another BT and pop CDs DR - reck - CS etc. Feels like a bigger loss to use BT and go directly into DR with only 1 or no trinkets procced, than to wait one BT cycle. This also helps build a bit of rage before CS dump and gives you two chances to get a BT crit before CS.

[Requiel]

doing BT-HT-DR-BT is better than going straight into CS after the DR, it allows you to pool more rage, more chance of your trinkets being up for the CS combo and delaying BT for anything but execute is a bad idea. also use a RB where the HT is if the first crits as you're more then likely going to waste a charge because it will get clipped.

[Darkfriend]

Your first rotation is the good one.
You should use Skullrender after DR, not before.
If the first BT is not a crit, use Berserker rage before DR.
If the first BT is not a crit and the CS is not a crit, don't delay BT (that means that during CS you'll do BT-RB-RB-BT).
If the first BT is a crit and the CS is not a crit, use Berserker rage.

If the first BT is a crit and the CS is a crit, I usually use Berserker rage to get an extra RB before the end of Recklessness (BT-DR-Recklessness+CS-RB-BT-RB-RB-BT-RB-RB), but I'm not sure if it's really the best way to use Berserker rage.

---------- Post added 2013-02-18 at 08:17 AM ----------

Also, you're only doing three HS during CS. If you have more than 40 rage (and you may have, depending on the rng), use a fourth HS with the third RB.

Ya not sure how I typoed the use of SRM before DR, or if I was just unclear. It's everything but on use crit trinket and reck before DR.

[Senen]

delaying BT for anything but execute is a bad idea

Regardless of being in execute phase or not, during Recklessness if you have two stacks of RB then RB has an higher priority than BT.

Ya not sure how I typoed the use of SRM before DR, or if I was just unclear. It's everything but on use crit trinket and reck before DR.

You didn't say you used SRM before DR, but you didn't mention using it after either. I just wanted to clarify this point since many people do this mistake (and use Recklessness before DR...)

---------- Post added 2013-02-19 at 04:46 AM ----------

Also, what are the differences between BT-HT-DR-BT-CS-RB-BT-RB-RB-BT-RB and BT-DR-CS-RB-BT-RB-RB-BT-RB-xx?

In the first scenario, the "I can't do three RB during my first CS" cannot happen.
In the first scenario, if the first BT doesn't crit, you want to use Berserker Rage before DR, meaning you could waste a proc of RB.
In the first scenario, you do only three RB during BB, while you're doing four in the second scenario.
In the second scenario, you use one less BT during Recklessness and probably a WS instead (or a RB, if you use your Berserker rage).

I'm not sure which opening is better, tbh. I think that the first scenario is less rng dependent (meaning that with bad rng you'll do a better burst with the first opening) but provides a lower burst.

[Requiel]

Regardless of being in execute phase or not, during Recklessness if you have two stacks of RB then RB has an higher priority than BT.

the only way you would get two stacks and a BT is next is if you didn't use the RB that came off the first BT

[Delath]

Also, what are the differences between BT-HT-DR-BT-CS-RB-BT-RB-RB-BT-RB and BT-DR-CS-RB-BT-RB-RB-BT-RB-xx?

In the first scenario you risk wasting a RB proc if BT,BT and CS crit. That scenario also puts a wider gap between starting recklessness (CS) and other cd's (DR) so the uptime is not entirely overlapping.

[Senen]

the only way you would get two stacks and a BT is next is if you didn't use the RB that came off the first BT

Well, I don't deny that this situation does not appear very often, I just mentioned that in this situation, delaying BT is the right thing to do.
For the same reason, during execute phase, during Recklessness if you do CS-Exec-Exec-Exec-Exec and still have two stacks of RB, it's better to RB first and then BT (which means that your BT has been delayed a lot, yes.)

In the first scenario you risk wasting a RB proc if BT,BT and CS crit. That scenario also puts a wider gap between starting recklessness (CS) and other cd's (DR) so the uptime is not entirely overlapping.

That was a rhetorical question, I answered it immediatly.

[Penguin1]

Have any of guys gotten a decent macro sequence for your opener? Would be curious as to how you actually execute the rotation from the start...

[Mataru]

I have a bloodbath macroed to SKull banner just to save me one button press between BT and DR. You can't really macro anything but CDs since it's all on the GCD, and excessivly macroing things together is usually not a good thing anyway.

[Penguin1]

I have a bloodbath macroed to SKull banner just to save me one button press between BT and DR. You can't really macro anything but CDs since it's all on the GCD, and excessivly macroing things together is usually not a good thing anyway.

Yeah, that is what I am finding. I was having trouble getting HL into the rotation, so I started macro'ing my CDs with CS+HS at the end to simplify some parts... but I think that I just need to work on my keyboard bindings.

I would be curious to hear what people have for keybindings for all the key actions in the rotation. (Sorry for posting a bit off topic... but still seems relevant... first identify a good opening rotation, and then prep your bindings such that you can still pull it off even if you have to react to movement)

[Mataru]

I have the following keybinds for main rotation abilities:

1 - WS
2 - BT
Q - RB
E - HL
R - CS
4 - Execute
Shift + E - HS (This is probably my least optimized keybind and would probably be better to have on a mouse button since it mostly used during the most hectic part of the rotation)

[bigbad]

I'm using Lei shen's final orders+relic of xuen as trinkets, would it be viable or even optimal to never go with opener1 but always with opener2 to let the trinkets proc? Next tier will have the same issue with the stacking trinkets instead of proccing ones.

[Roseby]

Right now there is alot more breathing room then 5.2 depending on your choice of trinket.

For example a multitude of those trinkets require a building up of stacks. It's in that event that the Charge + Heroic Throw -> BT -> BB/Racial/SynapseSprings/Banner + DR -> (? Filler or wait) -> BT/Recklessness -> CS -> RB -> BT -> RB -> RB (Incorporate 4 heroic strikes at minimum) should usurp more lazy openers.