FINALY! GC Fixes Ret PVP!

[ipoststuff]

I dont understand how AW having 2min cd in the past makes this less of a buff. Freedom used to break stuns if they gave us that back wouldnt it be a buff? We lost tons of stuff over the years just like every other spec in game.

[shadowboxer123]

I dont understand how AW having 2min cd in the past makes this less of a buff. Freedom used to break stuns if they gave us that back wouldnt it be a buff? We lost tons of stuff over the years just like every other spec in game.

Oh it's definitely a buff. The question should be is it the right type of buff that our spec needs considering our other obvious flaws and weaknesses?

As Crono was mentioning, this will give us some burst every minute or so if we alternate between HA and AW, which I had already considered to some point.

I'm just a bit disappointed that we were told that we were "fine", and that now that they admit we are not, they are coming up with a fix that is questionable. Don't get me wrong, I'll take the buff. Ret needs it. I've just seen lots of good ideas that might better solve some of our issues.

[Valedus]

Oh it's definitely a buff. The question should be is it the right type of buff that our spec needs considering our other obvious flaws and weaknesses?

As Crono was mentioning, this will give us some burst every minute or so if we alternate between HA and AW, which I had already considered to some point.

I'm just a bit disappointed that we were told that we were "fine", and that now that they admit we are not, they are coming up with a fix that is questionable. Don't get me wrong, I'll take the buff. Ret needs it. I've just seen lots of good ideas that might better solve some of our issues.

This. It's a buff, but its not a buff in the right direction. Besides, popping CD's every minute still is CC-able. Its not as punishing getting CC chained, but we need to be actually a threat without big glowing wings or a big Ashbringer.

[Tangra]

I dont understand how AW having 2min cd in the past makes this less of a buff. Freedom used to break stuns if they gave us that back wouldnt it be a buff? We lost tons of stuff over the years just like every other spec in game.

As I mentioned before. When you take into account how good our old 4pc was, this really barely qualifies as a buff.

[DeathOfRa]

I dont understand how AW having 2min cd in the past makes this less of a buff. Freedom used to break stuns if they gave us that back wouldnt it be a buff? We lost tons of stuff over the years just like every other spec in game.

Okay, say someone starts a fight that almost gets someone killed, but that same someone talks everyone into a peace. Some would see them as a great negotiator and such.
But who started the fight in the first place? Does this instigator deserve to be praised for calming everyone down, or should we just remember that it was his fault from the get go?
Wings being reduced by one minute isn't a buff. It's ret's due, which is being brought in under the guise of a buff so the devs can say "but we buffed you guys!", even though it's just something that shouldn't have been nerfed in the first place.

Ret still has the following problems:
-Almost near no utility due to offheals being gimped
-They have no way to break any basic type of CC (ever since your prementioned hand of stunbreaking was removed)
-No survivabilty due to the obnoxious forebearance debuff, which is outdated due to the length (properly should be around 30s)
-No baseline active snare (hamstring, deadly throw, CoI, concussion shot are active)
-Abilities/talents that are either solely pushed as a PvE talent or useless to use in PvP(Salvation, Righteous Fury, Unbreakable Spirit)

And a bunch of other things other people can probably point out. I personally miss sacred shield's old passive ability, that should be brought back under a new name so Ret has some cushion on getting trained.
There's also the loss of our new 4set we got in MoP. It should either be put onto our 2set, with it being put on gloves with judgment getting it's range increased by 10 as a base, or combined with the four-set. I'm not keen on trading a buff for a nerf, because we still lose something we've grown to need to keep Inquisition up.

[Metallikiddd]

WHAT?!....something in PVP fixed?!....was kalgan fired?!

[Tangra]

WHAT?!....something in PVP fixed?!....was kalgan fired?!

I really wish they would lock him back in the basement like they did during Wrath of the Lich King.

[Cronosmash]

Unbreakable Spirit should be baseline for Ret.

[Tangra]

Unbreakable Spirit should be baseline for Ret.

And prot as well probably.

EDIT: Replace with...

Trauma Expert: Your years of combat experience have taught you how to remove 2 harmful physical effects with your Cleanse spell.

EDIT: On the other hand, something more offensive would be nice. What would be really cool is if Cleanse could Purge physical buffs from enemies, that might actually compete with the monster that is Clemency.

[DeathOfRa]

I really wish they would lock him back in the basement like they did during Wrath of the Lich King.

Who in the hell is Kalgan?

[Tangra]

Who in the hell is Kalgan?

The guy in charge before Ghostcrawler... who is still around but gets way less public attention due to Ghostcrawler's visibility. Kalgan is widely rumored to be a huge hybrid hater, and so has been accused of wanting Shamans and Paladins to be nothing but healers.

[Valedus]

I think a fun solution to retribution for pvp would be to make RETRIBUTION the pvp theme. Something like a passive that reduces the cooldown on wings and kings when you are affected by player CC or take a crit by X secs.

That would be pretty cool, or I also thought of a new holy power finisher that Ret could use instead of WoG. Since WoG getting buffed will require it to have a CD or just get nerfed following because of insane offheals, they could give Ret something like:

Shield of the Templar
Requires Shield (we actually get a reason to swap between sword and board and 2h if we are getting trained)
Based on the next non-autoattack received, the Paladin gains an absorb shield equal to 40/80/120% of the attack received.
8 Second Cooldown.

This would seriously help us getting trained by breaking the tie between our survivability and offhealing. The problem is that while Battle Fatigue is 30% for hybrids, it is hard to balance their healing in PvP and PvE at the same time. The above numbers could be tweaked but it would help us absorb further damage and it is a spell-reflect like mechanic that stops more damage but can't stop incoming CC. It would promote skillful play because of making decisions and doing things like absorbing the harder hitting hits or spells would in turn make us harder to kill. Imagine absorbing a chaos bolt with it would give us like an 100k+ shield. I don't think it'd be too overpowered because the original spell/strike would still do it's damage, and we'd still be giving up pressure for it, but it wouldn't be a shitty 40k WoG.

[Highlord Qais]

like i said in the previous thread and GC acutlly saw my post O.o ?

Make our Burst CDs every 1 min ? who need sustained dmg after that !

[Lumineus]

Who in the hell is Kalgan?

Tom Chilton. Pretty sure he's still in charge of PvP, they just don't let him talk on the forums anymore because back in BC he said stupid things like "my Warrior is gonna be rocking his S3 weapon in no time" right after they added the ratings requirements that basically meant reroll-or-die for hybrid DPS.

[Masternewt]

Reducing CD on AW is a buff for mages.

[marinos]

Reducing CD on AW is a buff for mages.

It cant be Stolen/Dispelled since MoP launched.

[Deleted]

lol no Mages can't spellsteal aw

[Velshin]

I dont understand how AW having 2min cd in the past makes this less of a buff. Freedom used to break stuns if they gave us that back wouldnt it be a buff? We lost tons of stuff over the years just like every other spec in game.

It's a buff indeed but still it will not fix the current retri spec problems tbh. It will give us more burst but still doesn't buff our sustain dmg. We need a sustain dmg pressure instead of just burst...because any decent pvper will cc you to the death the moment you use your wings...then after that your dmg without cds will be so laughable. This is the main problem with retri atm we lack dmg/dps outside of our big cds. I swear to god I'm willing to trade my divine shield if I get a stable solid sustain dmg.

[Foomy]

I think a fun solution to retribution for pvp would be to make RETRIBUTION the pvp theme. Something like a passive that reduces the cooldown on wings and kings when you are affected by player CC or take a crit by X secs.

Or bring smth like an active "Eye for an Eye". Undispellable buff that lasts some sec and reflects all CCs back to the respective casters.

[gildra]

Or bring smth like an active "Eye for an Eye". Undispellable buff that lasts some sec and reflects all CCs back to the respective casters.

if they make make clemency baseline and then add this.

Hand of Retribution
replaces hand of salvation.
60 seconds cooldown.
duration 5 seconds
Places a Hand on the party or raid member, reflecting up to 2 effects which cause lose of control of your character. Players may only have one Hand on them per Paladin at any one time.

replaces hand of salvation which has no use for pvp anyway and gives us more choice. clemency will keep HoS on it but won't gain Hand of Retribution.

EDIT: for holy they could give it a different effect. maybe reflect damage instead.