Verdict on Guild Wars 2's innovations

[Deleted]

Personally I don't see how any fight can be epic without a holy trinity.

The only "mechanics" that can exist without a holy trinity in PVE content boil down to "dodge this", unlike other MMOs where PVE content is so much more complex.

I don't even understand how people can call GW2s combat "dynamic" or "action orientated", it's the same as WoW except you can do something to dodge. WoW has a system where, on some fights, if you click an extra action button you do stuff. This is used in a myriad of heroic encounters and is integral in defeating those encounters.

[Valeron]

I don't even understand how people can call GW2s combat "dynamic" or "action orientated", it's the same as WoW except you can do something to dodge. .

Ok fair enough. In WoW can you attack and hit something without there being a target (that isn't an AOE skill)? In WoW can use abilities that have cast times on the move? In WoW can you use other players and objects to intercede between you and the oncoming projectile?

[Sorrior]

Ok fair enough. In WoW can you attack and hit something without there being a target (that isn't an AOE skill)? In WoW can use abilities that have cast times on the move? In WoW can you use other players and objects to intercede between you and the oncoming projectile?

Depending on class/skills yeah you can move and cast...Also see TERA for dynamic real time combat.

[Valeron]

Depending on class/skills yeah you can move and cast...Also see TERA for dynamic real time combat.

I've seen Tera, played it. Have a few level 30's in there. And the combat there is slow, slow, slow. You want "real dynamic combat"? See Vindictus and/or Dragon Nest. Tera doesn't hold a candle to those two.

Also I don't recall any class in WoW able to move and cast skills that have a casting time. But I haven't played it in a while, last week with the free week that they sent me.

[Fencers]

Isn't there some sort of mage talent that allows like fireball to be cast on the run in WoW? I am not sure of the name or the skills. Though I recall seeing it once in WOW and both Rift and SWTOR [the two closest mass market games to WoW] have the option for their respective mage archetypes.

However, that is not matter.

The key difference is "some skills and classes can move & attack freely" in traditional MMOs. All classes can move and attack freely in Guild Wars with the majority of skills able to fire on the move- regardless of target, distance and travel freely through the gamespace with actual collision.

The comparison between the "Once-every 20-second-Shockwave" of a Prot warrior and that of a GW2 warrior Savage Leaping-Hamstringing-Crushing Blow-Tremoring-shouting OGCD and dropping banners while circle kiting and possibly using improvised weapons without breaking stride or hitting tab target; is not a sensible or fair comparison of two desperate systems of play.

In the old parlance one would call Guild Wars 2 an "arcade game".

Popular MMOs such as EQ, WoW or Rift are firmly stat driven RPGs.

[Sorrior]

I've seen Tera, played it. Have a few level 30's in there. And the combat there is slow, slow, slow. You want "real dynamic combat"? See Vindictus and/or Dragon Nest. Tera doesn't hold a candle to those two.

Also I don't recall any class in WoW able to move and cast skills that have a casting time. But I haven't played it in a while, last week with the free week that they sent me.

...Shaman have spiritwalk man..

Oh and played dragons nest man..TERA is MUCH better,...Also what class can make a VERY big difference in combat.

[Karizee]

I've seen Tera, played it. Have a few level 30's in there. And the combat there is slow, slow, slow. You want "real dynamic combat"? See Vindictus and/or Dragon Nest. Tera doesn't hold a candle to those two.

Also I don't recall any class in WoW able to move and cast skills that have a casting time. But I haven't played it in a while, last week with the free week that they sent me.

That's the way I remember it too. I played a warlock and other than a couple instants everything had a cast time and if I moved I interrupted the spell. Last time I played was in DS and when I heard they were changing Shadow Bolts to a 4 sec cast I was like bookah please.

[Sorrior]

Isn't there some sort of mage talent that allows like fireball to be cast on the run in WoW? I am not sure of the name or the skills. Though I recall seeing it once in WOW and both Rift and SWTOR [the two closest mass market games to WoW] have the option for their respective mage archetypes.

However, that is not matter.

The key difference is "some skills and classes can move & attack freely" in traditional MMOs. All classes can move and attack freely in Guild Wars with the majority of skills able to fire on the move- regardless of target, distance and travel freely through the gamespace with actual collision.

The comparison between the "Once-every 20-second-Shockwave" of a Prot warrior and that of a GW2 warrior Savage Leaping-Hamstringing-Crushing Blow-Tremoring-shouting OGCD and dropping banners while circle kiting and possibly using improvised weapons without breaking stride or hitting tab target; is not a sensible or fair comparison of two desperate systems of play.

In the old parlance one would call Guild Wars 2 an "arcade game".

Popular MMOs such as EQ, WoW or Rift are firmly stat driven RPGs.

I know thus why i brought up TERA LOL...Seriously TERA does real time combat SOOOO much better then GW2.

[Drunkenfinn]

I've seen Tera, played it. Have a few level 30's in there. And the combat there is slow, slow, slow. You want "real dynamic combat"? See Vindictus and/or Dragon Nest. Tera doesn't hold a candle to those two.

Also I don't recall any class in WoW able to move and cast skills that have a casting time. But I haven't played it in a while, last week with the free week that they sent me.

You only got to 30.
Most classes get their important abilities at 50++.

The PvP/PvE gets a lot more fast-paced once you reach 60.

I personally loved Teras combat to bits. Sadly the game doesnt really offer anything exceptional apart from the combat itself
Sure it might not be as fast-paced as Vindictus but it's not that much slower once you get to max level. And it depends a bit on your class as well.

[Sorrior]

You only got to 30.
Most classes get their important abilities at 50++.

The PvP/PvE gets a lot more fast-paced once you reach 60.

I personally loved Teras combat to bits. Sadly the game doesnt really offer anything exceptional apart from the combat itself
Sure it might not be as fast-paced as Vindictus but it's not that much slower once you get to max level. And it depends a bit on your class as well.

Like zerkers area n even semi slow melee class.

[Syro]

when i read the title i tought: hmm gw2, havent been there in a while maby i ll dl and play some
then i read the content and i knew why i shift del the game .

Agree with the points mostly.

[Valeron]

You only got to 30.
Most classes get their important abilities at 50++.

The PvP/PvE gets a lot more fast-paced once you reach 60.

I personally loved Teras combat to bits. Sadly the game doesnt really offer anything exceptional apart from the combat itself
Sure it might not be as fast-paced as Vindictus but it's not that much slower once you get to max level. And it depends a bit on your class as well.

Yeah that's fair, I just didn't enjoy all that much. My two biggest problems was that one the fights just lasted way too long for my tastes and two I could not stand the animation rooting there. The only class I could really get into was the warrior there and even then all of the animation roots just irritated the heck out of me. Fair or not, I just cannot play a game after GW2 that restricts movement in combat

[SamR]

Rift was better for most classes in that regard because apparently it wasn't your damage or healing that counted towards contribution, but rather the amount of "actions" in general. The best way to get contribution on my Rogue was to spam Chants like an idiot.

Rift's contribution system was idiotic. It was calculated based on APS. Your Rogue had a 1s global cooldown. Clerics had a 1.5s global cooldown. It was pretty much impossible for a Cleric to get higher contribution than a Rogue because he just couldn't physically do as many actions per second. And the Clerics who actually healed people who needed healing? Welcome to crap contribution levels. The only way for a Cleric to get decent contribution was to find a low mana buff/heal and just spam the crap out of it. On yourself, on some random person, didn't matter.

A contribution meter is the exact opposite of shared tags. It forces competition.

---------- Post added 2013-04-03 at 11:20 PM ----------

Also I don't recall any class in WoW able to move and cast skills that have a casting time. But I haven't played it in a while, last week with the free week that they sent me.

Hunters can "cast" while moving now. And Warlocks have a talent that allows some casting while moving. It's a trade off. Melee are ultra mobile, but have to deal with being(and staying) up close. Ranged have a huge advantage over melee because of much better options in positioning, but they give up mobility.

[Deleted]

To be fair most classes in WoW can now move and do their full DPS rotation. Let's use the Mage example:

- stands still during: Fireball, Invocation
- can move while using: Nether Tempest, Pyroblast! (the exclamation is important), Scorch, Combustion

Let's use the Shadow Priest example:

- stands still during: Mind Blast, Vampiric Touch, Mindflay
- can move while using Shadow Word: Pain, Shadow Word: Death, Mind Spike

A Warlock has a level 90 talent to allow all spells to be "usable while moving".

Isn't the collision thing you mentioned just a fancy form of saying "LoS" - sure, in WoW casts don't go off (or are impossible to make) if a target is "LoS" but I'm guessing it's well within Blizzard's technical capabilities to let the cast go off but just have it hit the "place of LoS", it's just a waste of developmental time (I think) in their view. I'm not undermining GW2 at all, I'm just trying to find out why it's referred to as "action" when in reality the only thing the dodge roll does is make you immune to -EVERYTHING- for 2 seconds and has a fancy animation to go alongside it.

[Valeron]

Isn't the collision thing you mentioned just a fancy form of saying "LoS" - sure, in WoW casts don't go off (or are impossible to make) if a target is "LoS" but I'm guessing it's well within Blizzard's technical capabilities to let the cast go off but just have it hit the "place of LoS", it's just a waste of developmental time (I think) in their view. I'm not undermining GW2 at all, I'm just trying to find out why it's referred to as "action" when in reality the only thing the dodge roll does is make you immune to -EVERYTHING- for 2 seconds and has a fancy animation to go alongside it.

No, it's not.

If I fire a projectile (arrow, traveling spell, whatever) at a target and before that projectile gets to that target something else gets in front of that path it will hit that instead. It does in fact change the battle tactically quite a bit. In addition almost everything in wow homes to the target once that dice roll has been made. That doesn't occur here. Also every melee has a conal or cleave effect here, that's not the case in wow.

There are quite a few differences between wow's combat and gw2's combat. The biggest difference is probably that wow uses dice rolls to hit a target (hence the +hit stats and such) and gw2 does not.

[Deleted]

There isn't a critical strike chance in GW2? O.o

[Valeron]

There isn't a critical strike chance in GW2? O.o

critical chance has no bearing on if something hits the target, you have to hit the target first. I didn't say there were any dice rolls, I said to determine if a target is actually hit GW2 does not use dice rolls.

[Deleted]

critical chance has no bearing on if something hits the target, you have to hit the target first. I didn't say there were any dice rolls, I said to determine if a target is actually hit GW2 does not use dice rolls.

Does that anger people when spells and attacks miss when you can gear for the "hit rating" cap to stop it? Seems like a needless complaint other than "this is hard because I can't read words and numbers on the internet."

[Valeron]

Does that anger people when spells and attacks miss when you can gear for the "hit rating" cap to stop it? Seems like a needless complaint other than "this is hard because I can't read words and numbers on the internet."

Indeed, wow is a gear dominated game. Some folks don't like that.

[Deleted]

Indeed, wow is a gear dominated game. Some folks don't like that.

So you'd dislike WoW even if you had to aim your spells/melee swings because it had a hit/miss rating table?