1. #1
    Blademaster Triscone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Chattanooga, TN

    Rotation during high buff periods

    I've been popping envenom/vanish/mut/prep/vanish/mut/mut+++, is this something most people do? I see a lot of people mentioning peak dps in the low 200's but i've been seeing a fair bit higher than that using this. I can't see where it hurts me elsewhere, but I never see it mentioned and see more often how prep is such a tiny gain that it isn't worth using so I'm conflicted.

    I'm not entirely convinced the model is calculating prep correctly. Peak dps with Prep taken is 214990, without it is 214864. I've seen myself on live well above 215 when using prep in this manner. Anyone have thoughts?

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Feb 2010
    Kansas City, Ks
    I actually go envenom, mut, vanish, mut, prep, vanish, mut, whatever(usually another envenom at this point if under 1 sec of the buff). I find that I stand a high chance of capping if I don't get that first mut(or two) in prior to the vanish, seeing as the next two muts cost me nothing.

    Prep may be a small gain, and I do also feel it is undervalued, but a small gain is a gain none the less. I know some rogues who don't use vanish because it's a small dps gain and would rather save it for wipes. I, however, play under the expectation that every bit of DPS matters and not with the thought of wiping.

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  3. #3
    In BiS, with prep used every time you're not in stealth and vanish has a CD > 60 seconds, I get a peak dps of 241,192dps. Without using prep at all, I get a peak of 240,860dps. I can resim this under your conditions if you want, though I doubt the scale of the results will change much.

    Total dps difference over a 7.5 min fight is around 300dps.

    Shadowstep is almost always a bigger dps gain, there's very few fights this isn't the case for. I usually only take prep if I'm trying to cheese a mechanic in some way.
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  4. #4
    Blademaster Triscone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Chattanooga, TN
    I've ran my own personal numbers, I know the difference for me in sims is very small, in practice however i see a much larger difference. I question whether the modeling is correct even though it appears looking at the code to be, but it feels undervalued.

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans Kael's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    In a 5 minute window you're talking about the value of 3 mutilates or ambushes (comparing 0 vanishes to vanish, prep vanish, and vanish again), presumably under CDs. Note in the first, you're likely to get at least one during a time at which you're not dying for CPs (overlap with lust or shadow blades). The power of 3 ambushes (easier to model) is 6-9 CP and the damage of the ability itself, and 3 chances to proc poisons. If we assume you don't lose ANY of it, you're getting ~6.6 CP (20% crit chance, why not) and 1.95 poison procs (you always have envenom up for this, why not). If that adds approximately 1 envenom of damage and 7 seconds of envenom uptime, and 2 poison procs, and 3 ambushes of damage, we then divide that gain by 300 seconds. This is for total damage, of course.

    1 Envenom/300 + 3 Ambushes/300 + 2 DP/300 + 7s/300 envenom uptime... you can plug in numbers for yourself, but the gain shouldn't be massive.

    Under burst, you're talking 1 extra mut/ambush when you're likely not hurting for CP. You can assume it probably doesn't increase your envenom uptime because you're already capped, so you're talking (ambush damage + .65 DP proc + 2/5 Envenom damage)/BurstTime. If your burst window is 2 seconds, that's significant but it's still not game-breaking. For a burst window of 30 seconds, it's not all that important.
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-02-19 at 06:50 AM.

  6. #6
    Aldrianna has ambush outperforming mutilate by small numbers, but given that prep is small numbers and only useful on some fights on live, you might be interested.

  7. #7
    I don't really get why the first two posters are assuming prep... its a dps loss on the majority of fights to take prep.

    Also if by high buff periods you mean SB+lust, I don't think that is a great time to be using your vanish. I mean I have to constantly clip envenoms meaning extra CP during that time grants me absolutely no additional envenom uptime.

  8. #8
    I peak at 235k with no Bloodlust at ilvl 492, using the rotation proposed in http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...e-nitty-gritty. You can see it in action here.

    During Bloodlust you're simply clipping Envenom at 7+ CP or 80+ energy. You can see how I do it here.

  9. #9
    I think prep would work well like on the amber shaper p1 burn strategy. I mean at most you have like 12 seconds of dps time between scalpel and the transition before he puts up the 99% shield.
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