My New Hero Class idea: Demon Hunters (Long)

[Teriz]

Love it... im just gonna need you to code it all out and submit it to blizzard for approval. If they decline i shall be bring pain to the next 10 generation of their bloodline.

LoL! Thanks bro. I would have no problem with Blizzard using this idea. I have no intention of claiming any type of ownership, or copyright, or any of that garbage. If Blizzard wants to use this, its all theirs. I would just ask that they hire me in the process.

---------- Post added 2013-02-22 at 09:01 AM ----------

Great fun to read Teriz, very cool.

To touch on a few things...



A natural solution idea, love the art. I'll just ask what we're all thinking though... what will the ladies do?

Personally, I fully believe that body paint counts as sufficient covering.

Yeah, check out the picture for Discipline, that's what I envision for Female characters who use Deconstruction. Also female characters in the game have a bikini top, so that would probably be a part of that too as to not offend parents and such.

Boo. Humans, worgen, draenei, undead, and orcs all hate demons too. I mean, if you're gonna give them their own starting area with blood and night elves, might as well have the big chief demon hunters bring in some of the other races. Advance the story, grow the lore, etc.

LoL! I had no idea this would bother people so much. I will admit that I saw a Female Draenei Demon Hunter pic, and it looked pretty rad. Also the Night Elves have a pretty close relationship with the Worgen, so who knows. I think I'm sticking to my racial guns right now though.

No issue with anything else. The specs are rad (particularly the tank spec - that mana>health mechanic might make a good Blood Mage spec), the abilities are fun to read, and the Shadow Chain mechanic is a stroke of genius. I'd play the hell out of a class that chains its abilities together to pull off different finishing moves based on the abilities in the chain.

Honestly, it'd be hard to top a Demon Hunter that operates like this. Game on, Blizzard.

Hey thanks man! I based the Vengeance tree mostly off of your idea to incorporate Spellbreaker into the class. You should also know that the original draft of this included your version of Evasion. However after reading over it, it sounded too much like Brewmaster tanking, so I went ahead and made it more like the original version from WoW. In any case, thanks for the big help.

And yeah, I hope Blizzard is checking this out and considering incorporating this into a future expansion.

---------- Post added 2013-02-22 at 09:04 AM ----------

Races was the one thing that stood out to me as well. Look at Death Knights, prior to World of Warcraft, they had either been human, or orcs in the bodies of humans. Now everyone can be one. I think Demon Hunters can easily be expanded to other races. Plus, I want to play a Draenei Demon Hunter. ;P

Yeah, that would be cool.

[Pippo89]

Very well and nice references from WC3. Interesting abilites and the Shadow Chains are a very cool idea.
However, I think there should be a greater difference from the two DPS specs.
I can almost imagine your Demon Hunter ingame.

As I like armor very much, I would not be very happy about the Deconstruction thing. Perhaps we could find an alternative.
I also like the concept of another class who starts with one type of armor and gets a stronger type @ lvl 40.
And as we all know, a 3rd mail class is yet missing.

Your concept of DH training grounds where you can unlock new Glaives (for transmog purposes or perhaps even respectable Valor/Justice weapons so they can be used in current content) is also good.

Perhaps Demon Hunters could train some races as the Pandaren Monks did teach some other races.

When looking at the Monk trainer in Kun-Lai (he states he hoped he would've been a Demon Hunter = possible hint) I think Blizzard has not abandoned the idea of a DH hero class. And we all know the showdown with the Burning Legion is slowly approaching. We need Illidan's disciples then :P

After all, Illidan is still a (anti-)hero and deserves a legacy.

[Wildmoon]

You did pretty damn amazing job at this. It's the most reasonable suggestion I have seen about DH. I haven't thought about deconstruction thing before. That's a great idea. There are somethings new and it still keeps DH's identity. I like it.

[Teriz]

The OP has been edited and updated. Some spells have been added, others have been removed or refined. I also redid the spec despcriptions to make them sound more from lore instead of just a dull description. Hope you dig. Thanks for all the positive feedback so far. I'm glad people are enjoying the read and leaving their feedback. Keep it coming.

Very well and nice references from WC3. Interesting abilites and the Shadow Chains are a very cool idea.
However, I think there should be a greater difference from the two DPS specs.

Check out the updated OP. I think I've been able to create a bit more difference between Chaos and Vengeance. Chaos deals more with utilizing Immolation and spreading Agonizing Flames and the management of Soul Furnace. Its for the DPS player that likes pretty explosions and doing lots of damage. Its very straight forward. Vengeance deals more with proper management of your mana so that you can keep Mana Beast active, and manipulating opponents. I tried to make it the more cerebral DPS spec. A Chaos DH will simply destroy you and move on, while the Vengeance DH would kill you slowly so it can empower itself for future battles.

Well. that's the goal at least.

I can almost imagine your Demon Hunter ingame.

As I like armor very much, I would not be very happy about the Deconstruction thing. Perhaps we could find an alternative.
I also like the concept of another class who starts with one type of armor and gets a stronger type @ lvl 40.
And as we all know, a 3rd mail class is yet missing.

I'm very happy that you can imagine this in-game.

As for Deconstruction, it's completely optional. If you wanted to run around in full mail armor you could do that as well. Check out the picture for Vengeance to get an idea of a DH in non-deconstructed armor.

Your concept of DH training grounds where you can unlock new Glaives (for transmog purposes or perhaps even respectable Valor/Justice weapons so they can be used in current content) is also good.

Perhaps Demon Hunters could train some races as the Pandaren Monks did teach some other races.

Perhaps. I could imagine that Orcs may seek DH training to honor the memory Broxigar, and the Elven Demon Hunters could see some value in that. However, I just imagine Demon Hunters to be too secretive and inclusive for that to occur. I just don't know. If Blizzard ever implemented this class, I would leave it to them to decide. This concept is all about being as close to the WC3 and WoW versions of DHs as possible.

When looking at the Monk trainer in Kun-Lai (he states he hoped he would've been a Demon Hunter = possible hint) I think Blizzard has not abandoned the idea of a DH hero class. And we all know the showdown with the Burning Legion is slowly approaching. We need Illidan's disciples then :P

After all, Illidan is still a (anti-)hero and deserves a legacy.

Good points. Like I said earlier, the fanbase is demanding both DHs and the Burning Legion. Blizzard is a business first and foremost, and the Demon Hunter as a class is like a winning lottery ticket that Blizzard can cash any time they want. I wouldn't be surprised if they implemented Demon Hunters and a Burning Legion expansion and regained almost all of their lost subscriptions and maintained them for months afterwards.

My only gripe would be that you would see Demon Hunters EVERYWHERE if this ever came to pass.

[Rhamses]

I enjoy all your class posts, but I think I like this one the most. Nice ideas on the tanking system and the magic eating DPS.

[bionics]

Well-thought out and constructed. I wouldn't mind trying out the Demon Hunter class if done properly like this; the only problem is the class only being available to the Night Elves and Blood Elves. While it make the most sense lore-wise, I can't see Blizzard making it that racially exclusive.

[Julian Rayne]

1. You've clearly out a lot of effort into this and it shows.

2. I doubt we're ever going to see a class restricted to only one race per faction again. My personal pick would be all races except Draenei, Tauren and Pandaren.

3. Love the Deconstruction idea. I mean really love it.

4. I'd increase the starting level. IMO Demon hunters should come out of their starting zone at level 70 and geared well enough for BC raiding.

5. How would the transition from starting zone to wider world (joining the Alliance and Horde) be handled? It shouldn't be too reminiscent of the Death knight experience including a redemption storyline etc.

[Eazy]

This "NEW" in the title is lie.

20% passive dodge is too much, don't you think? With Agility/Dodge Rating gear/gems they'll be dodge capped.
Only 2 classes? what about humans and orcs?

Though I like your concept(I can give it 7/10) I don't want to see Demon Hunters in this game.

[Muadiib]

I won't lie, your post is way too long for me to read all of it, but kudos on your obvious passion for what would be a very cool class. The appeal to me of this class and I feel the same for at least some others is Illidan himself, we secretly want to play as him tbh and a Demon Hunter class in wow would fall far short of that I suspect.

Even better than that I would love Blizzard to make an Illidan game on console/pc, a 3rd person action adventure in the vein of Darksiders where you play as Illidan from childhood all the way up to the modern day (or maybe more focused than that), that would tie in nicely to the next wow expansion involving the Burning Legion if true. He is a character many want to see alot more of I think. It probably won't happen but a man can dream can't he!

[Teriz]

Well-thought out and constructed. I wouldn't mind trying out the Demon Hunter class if done properly like this; the only problem is the class only being available to the Night Elves and Blood Elves. While it make the most sense lore-wise, I can't see Blizzard making it that racially exclusive.

Maybe not. However (IMO) I feel that spreading the class among more than the elves would dilute the flavor of the class.

I am happy that the race issue is the only major problem people are having with this concept. I figured the Diablo fans would be marching into this thread with pitchforks.

---------- Post added 2013-02-22 at 04:18 PM ----------

How would the transition from starting zone to wider world (joining the Alliance and Horde) be handled? It shouldn't be too reminiscent of the Death knight experience including a redemption storyline etc.

My scenario (which I will add to the OP):

After completing his training, the Demon Hunter is immediately summoned to take part in a mission for either the Alliance or the Horde during the Burning Crusade in the pursuit of a dangerous demon that is doing sinister things in Outland, like manipulating faction leaders and causing general chaos. The Demon Hunter will take out its lieutenants and henchmen, while gearing up for the final showdown with the main bad guy. In terms of why a DH would join a faction; Blood Elves for example would be chosen for the Horde missions because the Demon Hunter leadership wants their operative to work within the Horde without causing problems. Obviously a Nightelf running around Thrallmar would be a problem.

The mission is optional, but the Demon Hunter player will get some awesome gear and goodies upon its completion, which they should complete by the time they reach the necessary level to enter Northrend, where they will receive a similar mission where they must pursue another major target operating during WotLK in Northrend. This repeats itself in Cataclysm, Pandaria, and whatever other expansion comes afterwards. While on their missions, the Demon Hunters obviously get side tracked of course, and wind up doing quests and other heroic stuff, and assisting their factions in their petty conflicts. However, their main loyalty is to the Demon Hunter faction, whatever that is made up of, and exterminating their targets.

Hope that helps, and makes sense.

---------- Post added 2013-02-22 at 04:33 PM ----------

I won't lie, your post is way too long for me to read all of it, but kudos on your obvious passion for what would be a very cool class. The appeal to me of this class and I feel the same for at least some others is Illidan himself, we secretly want to play as him tbh and a Demon Hunter class in wow would fall far short of that I suspect.

The length of the OP would probably explain the lack of replies. Its cool though. I'm glad people are liking the concept.

Even better than that I would love Blizzard to make an Illidan game on console/pc, a 3rd person action adventure in the vein of Darksiders where you play as Illidan from childhood all the way up to the modern day (or maybe more focused than that), that would tie in nicely to the next wow expansion involving the Burning Legion if true. He is a character many want to see alot more of I think. It probably won't happen but a man can dream can't he!

Yeah, that would be sweet. However, I don't think Blizzard should handle the development. They should farm it out to another company. The folks who did Bayonetta, DMC, and Darksiders would be good choices.

---------- Post added 2013-02-22 at 04:37 PM ----------

This "NEW" in the title is lie.

20% passive dodge is too much, don't you think? With Agility/Dodge Rating gear/gems they'll be dodge capped.
Only 2 classes? what about humans and orcs?

How is the "New" title a lie? Its new for me. Can't speak for other attempts.

As for the races, if Blizzard would deem it appropriate then so be it. I personally think it should stay within the Elven societies. However, if its expanded, that's cool too.

Oh, and I changed the Evasion value to X%, just so that people don't freak out about the value.

Though I like your concept(I can give it 7/10) I don't want to see Demon Hunters in this game.

Understood. Thanks for taking the time to read it and respond.

[Breccia]

I am always happy to see posts like this. Your ideas are creative and you clearly spent a lot of time figuring out how to add an entirely new class into the game.

My biggest concern with this is as follows: overspecialization is weakness. Forcing a class to only be one race/faction, as well as the much more dangerous weapon limitations. I don't think, realistically, you can do either. RP is great, but I think you're asking too much in this case. I don't personally see why a demon hunter couldn't use, say, other one-handed blades.

I would also suggest that two different abilities (such as Immolation) shouldn't have the same name. Call it "Aura of the Hellfire Winds" or something.

But most importantly, what does their mastery do? I assume it's in the passive abilities but which one?

And have you considered talent options?

3. Love the Deconstruction idea. I mean really love it.

Plus, this.

[Teriz]

I am always happy to see posts like this. Your ideas are creative and you clearly spent a lot of time figuring out how to add an entirely new class into the game.

My biggest concern with this is as follows: overspecialization is weakness. Forcing a class to only be one race/faction, as well as the much more dangerous weapon limitations. I don't think, realistically, you can do either. RP is great, but I think you're asking too much in this case. I don't personally see why a demon hunter couldn't use, say, other one-handed blades.

In my concept, Demon Hunters can be Blood Elves or Night Elves, that covers both factions. However, I have no problem flirting with the idea that certain other races could become Demon Hunters. I personally think it should remain Night Elf and Blood Elf only, but that's just my opinion. However I would hope that Blizzard doesn't expand this to include all race types. I think I'd lose my lunch if I saw a Gnome or Goblin Demon Hunter. It would just ruin the mystique for me.

As for weapons, I mentioned that they could use any 1h weapon except for fist weapons. That includes, swords, axes, and maces. Warglaives would be sold to DHs through merchants, and won completing quests/missions.

I would also suggest that two different abilities (such as Immolation) shouldn't have the same name. Call it "Aura of the Hellfire Winds" or something.

But most importantly, what does their mastery do? I assume it's in the passive abilities but which one?

And have you considered talent options?

I haven't really thought of the mastery. I guess it would be something boring like Discipline DHs take X% less damage blah blah blah. Talents would be fun to do. Maybe I'll work on them down the road. If someone wants to do them, that would be great, and I'll add them to the OP.

Plus, this.

Cool!

[Immitis]

Yes, but there's no point in allowing other races to be Demon Hunters if there's only a couple of them in the entire world.

As for my old thread, check out the introduction.

that depends on how they implement them and what point in time the demon hunters blizz adds come from. but to be honest i dont really care which races get it as long as i can make a blood elf demon hunter. although id like it if pandaren could be demon hunters

[Potassiumgluconate]

I also don't think we'll see Demon Hunters added without at least one spec being a Diablo 3 demon hunter.

"But that's not canon!" Shouts everyone. But let me give my reasons:

When Warlocks were added, Blizzard gave them traits of a WC3 demon hunter. Reasoning? All warlocks previously in the game had been evil and there wasn't much there to justify a whole class. So they rolled in some fire mage and demon hunter.

When Priests were added, they invented Shadow. The reasoning being that trolls, orcs, and forsaken had no reason to be using the light, and they needed to make a distinction between a priest and just a cloth wearing paladin.

Best example: Death Knights are nothing at all like any death knight in any of WoW's history. Originally death knights were orcs. Not even undead-raising rune-slingers. Later Deathknights were necromancers on horses. When blizzard was contemplating what class to add in Wrath, they were debating between Runemaster and Necromancer. Eventually they merged their class ideas together, and invented an army of mini-Arthases who used Runes, raised the dead, and slayed like a paladin.

Demon Hunters as we know them, are now essentially a Warlock Hero Class. As Ghostcrawler said, "Is there anything Demon Hunters will add?..."
And in addition to that, Hunters are only class in the game with an exclusive weapon set. No other class has that. The next class added to the game will take advantage of ranged weapons, I guarantee it.

If Demon Hunters are added as a distinct individual class, I predict at least one spec taking advantage of ranged weapons. I predict that it will be the spec to explain, in canon, why races like the Draenei, Tauren, Pandaren, and Orcs (assuming they have some anti-demon dignity left after MOP) are able to play as one. It will be the spec that says "We don't merge our souls with a demon, but we will dedicate our lives to eradicating them."

It gives the Marksman/Petless Hunter argument a rest, as well as the demon hunter argument. Is it canon? No. But neither are our current version of Warlocks, priests, and death knights. Blizzard will add the lore to fill in the blanks.

[ShadowJester]

Finally Teriz, I knew you would come over to Demon Hunter side of things.

This is actually pretty awesome idea, the Shadow Chain idea is kick ass, and is a mechanic that I would love to play, and had kinda been toying around with in my DH concepts!

As for the 2 race things, I agree but also don't a bit. It should be four races, BE and Orc for Horde and NE and Human for Alliance. A smaller number of races means there is a better chance that Blizz would give each race a unique Meta model, as opposed to the Lock one where its all just a generic demon form.

I also like how you have spells that change based on spec, since DH have a demon infused into their soul, it plays with the idea of each spec coming from different demon infusions.

The only real big changes I would say, are to make Vengeance a caster dps, with no melee (but still have chaos be an enhc type melee/caster) and to give them different resources than Mana: demonic fury or their own one, willpower, demon seals or w/e. Just something that sets them one step apart and adds to their uniqueness.

[Teriz]

I also don't think we'll see Demon Hunters added without at least one spec being a Diablo 3 demon hunter.

"But that's not canon!" Shouts everyone. But let me give my reasons:

When Warlocks were added, Blizzard gave them traits of a WC3 demon hunter. Reasoning? All warlocks previously in the game had been evil and there wasn't much there to justify a whole class. So they rolled in some fire mage and demon hunter.

When Priests were added, they invented Shadow. The reasoning being that trolls, orcs, and forsaken had no reason to be using the light, and they needed to make a distinction between a priest and just a cloth wearing paladin.

I'm pretty sure there were dark priests in Warcraft 3. And anyway, I don't see how the two concepts mix together. Hell, they're two concepts that aren't even from the same game or universe. People just link them together because they have the same name. It's pretty dumb when you really think about it.

Best example: Death Knights are nothing at all like any death knight in any of WoW's history. Originally death knights were orcs. Not even undead-raising rune-slingers. Later Deathknights were necromancers on horses. When blizzard was contemplating what class to add in Wrath, they were debating between Runemaster and Necromancer. Eventually they merged their class ideas together, and invented an army of mini-Arthases who used Runes, raised the dead, and slayed like a paladin.

Well in WC3, Death Knights were Necromancers on horses. They were also polar opposites of Paladins because they were based on Arthas who was a fallen Paladin. In any case, I felt that DKs were very close to their WC3 roots.

Demon Hunters as we know them, are now essentially a Warlock Hero Class. As Ghostcrawler said, "Is there anything Demon Hunters will add?..."
And in addition to that, Hunters are only class in the game with an exclusive weapon set. No other class has that. The next class added to the game will take advantage of ranged weapons, I guarantee it.

If Demon Hunters are added as a distinct individual class, I predict at least one spec taking advantage of ranged weapons. I predict that it will be the spec to explain, in canon, why races like the Draenei, Tauren, Pandaren, and Orcs (assuming they have some anti-demon dignity left after MOP) are able to play as one. It will be the spec that says "We don't merge our souls with a demon, but we will dedicate our lives to eradicating them."

It gives the Marksman/Petless Hunter argument a rest, as well as the demon hunter argument. Is it canon? No. But neither are our current version of Warlocks, priests, and death knights. Blizzard will add the lore to fill in the blanks.

Well again, I think a Demon Hunter class can add plenty if properly implemented. There's no battle-mage class in the game, and Demon Hunters could fill that void. Also, just because Warlocks and Demon Hunters share the same type of magic, doesn't mean that both can't exist in the same game. Like I said before; Demon Hunters are to Warlocks what Paladins are to Priests. In that sense, it would make sense for Warlocks and Demon Hunters to have similar abilities, but have a divergence in terms of range and purpose. For example, a Warlock would have a more advanced form of Metamorphosis since it is more closely involved with demons and demonic magic than Demon Hunters are. DHs use demonic magic to destroy demons. Warlocks use demonic magic to control it for their own purposes. There's plenty of room to play around with this.

As for a petless hunter, just make it Marksmen hunters. There's no need to create an entirely new spec for that.

[Potassiumgluconate]

I'm pretty sure there were dark priests in Warcraft 3. And anyway, I don't see how the two concepts mix together. Hell, they're two concepts that aren't even from the same game or universe. People just link them together because they have the same name. It's pretty dumb when you really think about it.

There weren't. There were warlocks, necromancers, and witch doctors. Shadow Priests as we have them in WoW was created out of forsaken lore.

Well in WC3, Death Knights were Necromancers on horses. They were also polar opposites of Paladins because they were based on Arthas who was a fallen Paladin. In any case, I felt that DKs were very close to their WC3 roots.

WC3 Deathknights didn't wear plate, they were humans, there wasn't any Rune stuff mixed in.
My point is that when you say "Demon hunters don't have x, therefore when they're in WoW they won't." is a strawman argument. Blizzard's done it again and again with their classes and their lore. If a mechanic or diversity makes more sense, they'll change something in a heartbeat.

Well again, I think a Demon Hunter class can add plenty if properly implemented. There's no battle-mage class in the game, and Demon Hunters could fill that void.

This isn't sarcasm or being snarky, but could you please explain to me what that void is that isn't filled by: Paladins, Deathknights, or Shaman?

I can see a few other voids that are more obvious. We have no melee cloth class (it was always assumed that would be monks but that isn't the case now) and only one ranged weapon class.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Blizzard has stated that they want less gear that is exclusive to one class. I doubt they'd make warglaives a demon hunter only weapon. They'd either make a bunch of glaives and classify them as swords, or give most-all classes access to the new warglaive type weapon.

It'd be pretty cool to have warglaives specialization though, which gives them a slight damage or attack speed bonus for using two glaives.

[Rigimi44]

Awesome job, I love reading these class ideas that have visible effort in them. I hope we do get Demon Hunters in some form (preferably like this) when the next Burning Legion expansion rolls around. The Deconstruction is really well thought out and solves the armour issue.

[skycaptain]

Yes please, and only Night elves and Blood elves can be Demon Hunters. please.