Ret 5.3 : Divine Purpose, Holy Avenger, Sanctified Wrath ?

[Strear]

I was wondering how people are speculating with the next update about these talents.

I tried Holy Avenger, but I like Divine Purpose so much ... so I'll try Sanctified Wrath, but I think I'll stick to Divine Purpose if not satisfied with SW.

[Nairobi]

SW should still pull highest (albeit slightly) on sims.
HA will follow closely, and depending on the encounter, may be more beneficial (IE burst AOE).

DP will still be bringing up the rear significantly.

Edit: I voted for HA, since I play Ret OS, and enjoy the HA playstyle more than SW. If I was raiding as Ret, I'd still with SW unless there was a burst AOE phase, though.

[ipoststuff]

From a PvP pov i say HA.

HA gives the highest burst. SW gives ranged burst. DP sucks.

[Fhi]

Number-wise or feeling-wise? I always like DP and SW, although with my haste level now DP is starting to 'clip'. Once I get out of 4-piece t14 I may go DP again to see how it feels.

[Vash The Stampede]

I tend to switch between Holy Avenger and Sanctified Wrath a lot in raids. Really depends on the fight. Also yes you need to keep a stack of Tome of Clear Mind with you at all times.

For PvP I tend to use Holy Avenger, but might try Sanctified Wrath in the next patch. Since they're making Avenging Wrath a 2 minute cool down, it might be better to use that with Glyph of Avenger Wrath.

[Nairobi]

For PvP I tend to use Holy Avenger, but might try Sanctified Wrath in the next patch. Since they're making Avenging Wrath a 2 minute cool down, it might be better to use that with Glyph of Avenger Wrath.

I had the same consideration. SW allows you to really hard-counter melee, since you can essentially kite with J (provided BoG) and spam hammers/toss Exo's. Adding in the AW glyph gives you ~15% HP heal over those 30 seconds of wings.

However, in Arena I'd likely keep HA, since it's all about dropping the hammer (no pun intended) ASAP in there, and the extra %dmg and faster HoPo/sec does more for your burst in that scenario. Plus spamming TV means 10% more passive mitigation.

Both setups are intriguing, depends on what you're trying to counter.

[Reith]

Plus spamming TV means 10% more passive mitigation.

Not much of a consideration anymore because Exorcism procs that glyph too.

[Strear]

In PVP, I'm really wondering how efficient SW will be ?

[nyc81991]

In PVP, I'm really wondering how efficient SW will be ?

I think it will depend on what you are trying to do and what you are up against.

SW might be better for when you know you are going to have a hard time getting to your target. It could also be better against Warriors since spamming Hammer of wrath does more damage than Templar's verdict and can't be stopped by Die by the Sword.

Holy Avenger will be much better for overall burst though.

[anaxie]

SW is going to win in pve and remember the largest benefit of the 30 sec wings is your pretty likely to have your trinkets proc during that time frame.

Plus wings is 20% ALL damage HA is 30% on HP gens. That would be alright IF Censure and Templars and it's hand of light wasn't SO important.

HA gets shit on more this coming patch because a holy TV! will NOT be affected by HA but it WILL be affected by wings.... and of course the damage will super dip from mastery. Plus I'm pretty sure the 161% SP coif for HoW is going to nuke redic hard with the 8k str proc from zandalar and the 3-5 stacks of Primordius's rage whcih should be an extra 5k-7k str on average. Mega hammers esp on Guardian linked wings.

Also HA sucks dick TV is gonna be 275% after 2 set drops.... thats turrible

[Shelly]

Last time I ran some trials HA was number 1, followed by SW as far as straight DPS goes.

Thing is though that I don't really care much for either of them and they don't fit my playstyle - though I'm sure with practice it would be fine.

So I go with DP. I find it more forgiving on those odd spots where you mess up your rotation or inquisition maintenance and maybe it's for the best I avoid casinos because there's not much out there more satisfying than a lucky streak where you're just cranking out TV after TV after TV.

[anaxie]

Last time I ran some trials HA was number 1, followed by SW as far as straight DPS goes.

Thing is though that I don't really care much for either of them and they don't fit my playstyle - though I'm sure with practice it would be fine.

So I go with DP. I find it more forgiving on those odd spots where you mess up your rotation or inquisition maintenance and maybe it's for the best I avoid casinos because there's not much out there more satisfying than a lucky streak where you're just cranking out TV after TV after TV.

Did you do it before the 2 min duration AW was live.... I think you did

Kay... hope u don't use DP on live since HoW is superior in every way to TV on live.

[Veliane]

there's not much out there more satisfying than a lucky streak where you're just cranking out TV after TV after TV.

There is!

A reliable streak of superior, back-to-back, Hammers of Wrath.

[Deleted]

Did you do it before the 2 min duration AW was live.... I think you did

Kay... hope u don't use DP on live since HoW is superior in every way to TV on live.

I hope they don't hear me, but I hope SW doesn't get changed.. And 1min AW.. oh, the sweetness.. Someone I know will be very interested in this burst..

[Floross]

I hope they don't hear me, but I hope SW doesn't get changed.. And 1min AW.. oh, the sweetness.. Someone I know will be very interested in this burst..

Yeah ... not really.... the 4pc is getting changed.

OT: I love SW because it makes a smooth rotation, almost no loss when I have to get out of boss melee range, and it also gives you a bigger window for trinkets to procs like anaxie said. Glad it's the go to choice for highest dps.

[Kharli]

Honestly, I just can't see me switching from Holy Avenger. I like the ability to stack my cooldowns for massive burst. For example, I can get through RoS P2 before it can begin to cast a second spirit shock (admittedly, I've got to pop all my defensive cooldowns so I don't kill myself on the damage reflect). Sure, that's old content, but the benefits run right through all levels of content. Getting off a load of TV's before it fades just adds up to crazy numbers when you pitch it alongside AW, Inq., and GoAK. Top it off with the Ashbringer visual, and it just fits like a glove.

I used to use SW in the beta, but that was as prot, and when it gave judgement no cooldown. That added up to a lot of burst for prot, but alas, they nerfed it, and I went with HA. I did try Divine Purpose, but it ended up being far too unreliable. When I switched to Ret in December, I just stuck with HA.

I don't bother with sims, so it's more about how a talent or ability feels to me that makes me decide. I like how predictable HA is and the benefits it provides are fantastic. Of course, if you're min/maxing, this isn't going to be good enough, but for me, it's all about what I prefer. I mean, both HA and SW's benefits will be 2-min CD as base once 5.2 hits. I've not kept up to date with what changes if any, they're making to the current tier set bonuses, but if AW becomes a 1-min CD with the 4-set, then I'll probably still be with HA. Again, I just like the ability. It might be more beneficial to have SW, but I'd rather have another dedicated cooldown than more benefits on top of AW.

This basicly, but I never bothered about PvP unless I really felt like doing PvP(1-2 bgs depending if Alliance wins or not)

I just like having Cd's WHEN I want to have them, yes it lowers dps but it's least something I can relay on having(yes I don't like RNG and yes I know they "fixed" it in MoP)

I will try SW Vs HA, if I see bigger differences yeh i'l switch.
Armory for interested.
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...sandian/simple (yes i'm not in BiS gear, cause my guild aint that Hard-core nor do I really care to much about Bis and damn you blizzard for putting BiS belt on world boss..<.<)

[Shelly]

Did you do it before the 2 min duration AW was live.... I think you did

Kay... hope u don't use DP on live since HoW is superior in every way to TV on live.

We've been over this before.

I did all my tests with the 4-piece bonus so 2-minute Wings. Yes Holy Avenger and Sanctified Wrath both pulled ahead with much higher numbers.

However at my particular raiding level - LFR - HA pulled up higher than SW because I wasn't getting the buffs required for the super-huge hits and crits to my hammer of wrath.

Also at that particular level my personal enjoyment and playstyle trumps most dps requirements.

We're not all playing the same game. Each tier of raiding has its own requirements and ceilings that can change things pretty significantly. :-)

It's not about being bad or good or casual or hardcore, it's about playing in a way that fits your style without impacting the enjoyment of the rest of your raid. For a hardcore raider that means you do whatever is needed to put up the large numbers and have high amounts of coordination. For a normal progression raider it's a little looser and for an LFR raider it's just about having fun and playing competently. (Also yes, I've topped the meters in LFR, with LFR and VP gear only, which really says more about LFR than it does about my playing skill. :-P)

[Deleted]

It's not about being bad or good or casual or hardcore, it's about playing in a way that fits your style without impacting the enjoyment of the rest of your raid. For a hardcore raider that means you do whatever is needed to put up the large numbers and have high amounts of coordination. For a normal progression raider it's a little looser and for an LFR raider it's just about having fun and playing competently. (Also yes, I've topped the meters in LFR, with LFR and VP gear only, which really says more about LFR than it does about my playing skill. :-P)

I totally agree with this.

People need to realize that except if you're a top 100 raider or PvPer, being slightly under maximum performance isn't the end of the world. many people don't play at the top 1% stage of their content type, and for them, it doesn't matter if they're not doing 100% of their maximum performance. many people are just happy playing this game the way they prefer. who cares if you pressed X when Y was mathematically proven to be 1% better? It's a game, you're supposed to have fun in it.

The only time when poor performance should be reprimanded is if it's actively stopping you from killing the content you want to do, or when it's abysmally low. if your gear is rated for 100K DPS, pulling 90K DPS is still pretty good. pulling 50K, however, is not good and requires a closer look or even an exclusion. but if the content only requires 40K DPS, then who cares if you're doing 50K or 90K? you're still above the ranking.

In addition, people have certain playstyles. for example, on DK's, runic empowerment or runic corruption is a playstyle choice. maybe one of them is mathed out to be better, but this is totally player preference. choosing one over the other isnt magically going to nerf your DPS into the ground. choosing one over the other isn't also magically going to buff your DPS to first spot. but choosing one over the other could mean that you're that much comfortable with your rotation, meaning you like the playstyle more.

what content you do is also important. heroic raids in the world first race? you're supposed to play to 110% of your skill. LFR? don't bother going for 110% skill, because you'll make it with 60%.

[Moby]

I totally agree with this.

People need to realize that except if you're a top 100 raider or PvPer, being slightly under maximum performance isn't the end of the world. many people don't play at the top 1% stage of their content type, and for them, it doesn't matter if they're not doing 100% of their maximum performance. many people are just happy playing this game the way they prefer. who cares if you pressed X when Y was mathematically proven to be 1% better? It's a game, you're supposed to have fun in it.

The only time when poor performance should be reprimanded is if it's actively stopping you from killing the content you want to do, or when it's abysmally low. if your gear is rated for 100K DPS, pulling 90K DPS is still pretty good. pulling 50K, however, is not good and requires a closer look or even an exclusion. but if the content only requires 40K DPS, then who cares if you're doing 50K or 90K? you're still above the ranking.

In addition, people have certain playstyles. for example, on DK's, runic empowerment or runic corruption is a playstyle choice. maybe one of them is mathed out to be better, but this is totally player preference. choosing one over the other isnt magically going to nerf your DPS into the ground. choosing one over the other isn't also magically going to buff your DPS to first spot. but choosing one over the other could mean that you're that much comfortable with your rotation, meaning you like the playstyle more.

what content you do is also important. heroic raids in the world first race? you're supposed to play to 110% of your skill. LFR? don't bother going for 110% skill, because you'll make it with 60%.

^ Best post ever

I enjoy the DP gameplay aswell, but SW is gonna rock, both DPS wise and still be bloody fun with the 2 min cooldown on wings. Can't wait for the next patch!

[catablitz]

On the contrary, I completely disagree even if it is against the common opinion. You do not need to be part of the elite 1% to care for maximisng your performance.
Logic dictates that you will prepare your character based on hard evidence may that be numbers or ingame experience. This means that you must be completely ready before start worrying about raid setup or tactics.

At the end, all you have to do is to put the right talents/encahnts/gems/reforges. If you fail on that, you have no right whatsoever to criticise anyone or anything ever.
If you value the 'feeling' of a certain mechanism that makes it more enjoyable to you, more than the 'correct' but boring or irritating choice then you are not supposed to be raiding.

Any leader of a guild that has ambitions to make proper progress which does not necessarily mean be in the top 1 or even 10%, will start his raid by picking people that know what they are doing. The rest have no place in a raid. Wow is min/maxing. Period! Especially when said leader knows that his material isnt the best he could have and skill cannot compensate. Everything else that can be easily managed such as talent choices has to be of 100% efficiency.

Why would you force anyone to raid with you and actually carry you, even if you have the raid dps for a fight. Now, if you ( in general) are a guy that just wants to 'have fun' at the cost of performance in a casual guild, then think again cause no matter how you see it, you are wasting your time.

The DK example is out of place. That talent choise actually comes with skill required and it can hurt more if you mess up although maths prove otherwise.

In any case even if 1% isnt the end of the world, it should matter to anyone who does not want to intentially deprive themselves of the absolute best the can deliver.

This is not elitism, it is common sense.

TLDR: You dont need to be hardcore to choose performance over fun. Actually every average raider should value performance more. If not, they just lower the fps of those with the standar intelligence quotient.