[5.2] Destruction - Preliminary Grimoire/Pet Comparison & Effect on Stat Weights

[Lasombria]

Wow, Brusalk. That's impressive, and very encouraging.

[Brusalk]

Have you tested demo yet?

The demonology APLs in Simcraft seem to have a bug or something where the pets aren't recognized as pets. I don't really have the time to look into why it's happening due to school and other things, but once it's fixed I'll have results for both Affliction and Demo. The only reason I only posted Destro results was because it was the only spec that worked :P

---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 01:26 PM ----------

I have nothing to add to this conversation except to say THANK YOU to Brusalk (and all the others) for the work put into this.

My one question is this: does the Sup/Obs stat summary assume that you use Optical blast on CD?

You're welcome!

And no, it doesn't. When I get back home I'll run another pass for obs and update the results.

---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 01:28 PM ----------

any reason why you simmed it with T14 trinkets?

I used the base T15H simcraft profile included with the build. It was someone else's work, so I can't say for sure, but I'm guessing either the trinkets weren't working in simc when they put it together, or they still aren't. To be honest I haven't checked, so I may also see which trinkets are best today.

---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 01:30 PM ----------

Also as an aside, I had a hunch that with the buffs to generators that RoF wouldn't be worth it in the single target rotation anymore, but apparently I was wrong. It's still just ahead of Incinerate in terms of DPET, so it is still worth it (on the order of under 1k DPS out of 150k) to use it if the target is in the RoF 100% of the time.

[Deleted]

are you able to split the damage between master and pet? I'm wondering if the Orc racial for 5% more pet damage would be enough to to edge Sup ahead for Orcs.

Also slight aside note, I'm a little confused by pet damage, when I try all the pets out on a target dummy the fel imp always seems to come out on top however Observer is what everyone says to use, am I missing something? (maybe it scales / benefits better with other raid buffs?)

[Deleted]

are you able to split the damage between master and pet? I'm wondering if the Orc racial for 5% more pet damage would be enough to to edge Sup ahead for Orcs.

He is already using an Orc.

[Deleted]

He is already using an Orc.

Ok well spotted just assumed he had used Worgen

[xskarma]

Also slight aside note, I'm a little confused by pet damage, when I try all the pets out on a target dummy the fel imp always seems to come out on top however Observer is what everyone says to use, am I missing something? (maybe it scales / benefits better with other raid buffs?)

This is most likely caused by using the Glyph of Demon Training. It Causes the Fel Imp to deliver it's bolts so slowly that the damage meters just completely stop tracking damage inbetween bolts, artificially inflating the damage. Taking into account that you are most likely not attacking yourself when you do these tests.

If you want accurate pet DPS numbers, take either a fixed time to let pets hit the target dummy, and compare the total damage they've done OR take a fixed amount of damage and look at how much time they spent getting that damage. Either of those will accurately show you what the true DPS is, and not the likely borked Damage Meter one.

[Deleted]

Grimoire/Pet	DPS	Priority	Stat Weights
Sup/Observer	156800	Int > Hit > Haste == Mastery == Crit	Int: 4.81 Hit: 4.12 Mastery: 2.48 Crit: 2.43 Haste: 2.51
Sup/Shivarra	156527	Int > Hit > Haste == Mastery > Crit	Int: 4.84 Hit: 4.15 Mastery: 2.46 Crit: 2.30 Haste: 2.49
Sup/Voidlord	156480	Int > Hit > Haste == Mastery > Crit	Int: 4.87 Hit: 4.06 Mastery: 2.48 Crit: 2.34 Haste: 2.53
Sup/Fel Imp	155327	Int > Hit > Mastery == Haste == Crit	Int: 4.85 Hit: 4.12 Mastery: 2.50 Crit: 2.40 Haste: 2.46

Why does crit differ when using different pets?

[Deleted]

Thanks xskarma, will try it again, for sure my test wasn't the most scientific... I'm also sure I wasn't using the glyph either though.

...did some searching and came across another thread on here with same kind of question so I understand what I was doing wrong. Cheers!

[Jessicka]

Why does crit differ when using different pets?

Different pets do different proportions of damage from their various attacks, which in turn depends how they scale from Haste as Fel Energy doesn't benefit from it. That's why the Imp sucks - it gains nothing at all from Haste. Because all stats are inter-dependant on each other for value, if you change one, they'll all change.

If they can get Fel Energy to increase with Haste, a lot of the issues with Sac will be fixed.

[Hatelocker]

Thanks for this Brusalk. At work with a sinus infection and I gotta say you just made my morning. I am quite happy that I can rock a mastery heavy Sac build for all the fights this tier.

[Deleted]

I am quite happy that I can rock a mastery heavy Sac build for all the fights this tier.

shhh don't tell it too loud GC might be watching !

[Deleted]

If they can get Fel Energy to increase with Haste, a lot of the issues with Sac will be fixed.

This and each point of mastery needs to increase the dmg of the pets by 1%, just like it increases other ember generating spells (inci, conflag, immo, fel flame, etc). This is also true for affli.

Even then they'd need to make something like "when pet hits, there's a small chance (5%?) you will gain an emberbit, just to make sure that the pets don't lag behind as our gear (namely mastery) increases. And to make up for their uncoolness.

[Deleted]

One last question from me for today, how about the glyph of dark soul, what do the numbers look if that's included in the sim? does any of the changes make this a better / worse glyph?

[xskarma]

One last question from me for today, how about the glyph of dark soul, what do the numbers look if that's included in the sim? does any of the changes make this a better / worse glyph?

Glyphs of Dark Soul is just generally bad. You only have Dark Soul Passive effect when you do NOT have Dark Soul on cooldown, which you should pretty much always have. Even if you don't use Dark Soul on cooldown, you'd need to have it off cooldown for AGES to make the glyph worth it. Situations like that just don't exist. It's maybe a glyph you could use when doing dailies and stuff, for a slight increase in output, but even then I'm willing to bet you'd get more out of having things like Healthstone glyph and such.

[Grizelda]

It's looking like I can switch from aff to destro without so much regemming. This would be great.

[luckydevours]

Different pets do different proportions of damage from their various attacks, which in turn depends how they scale from Haste as Fel Energy doesn't benefit from it. That's why the Imp sucks - it gains nothing at all from Haste. Because all stats are inter-dependant on each other for value, if you change one, they'll all change.

If they can get Fel Energy to increase with Haste, a lot of the issues with Sac will be fixed.

Imho this is just a myth or can you actually prove this statement?

Quote from GC in the Beta-Class-Balance-Analysis thread:

The intended fel energy regen rate is 10 per second, modified by spell haste. If you have 30% haste, your pets should regenerate 13 energy per sec. I’m not sure exactly how it’s bugged right now; I believe it’s actually getting 23 per sec or perhaps 26. Regardless, 10*(1+SpellHaste%) is the intended regen rate.

Source: MMO-Champion Blue Tracker

[Elutem]

From the front page:

Grimoire of Sacrifice (Affliction) You sacrifice your demon to gain one of its abilities, increase the power of many of your single target spells by <45%> 35% and regenerate 2% of maximum health every 5 sec.
Grimoire of Sacrifice (Destruction) You sacrifice your demon to gain one of its abilities, increase the power of many of your single target spells by <20%> 15% and regenerate 2% of maximum health every 5 sec.

Looking more and more like GoSup is gonna be the go-to. Or at least that's what Blizz wants.

[Deleted]

Great another huge flat nerf to Destro, guess we are really going to DPS less despite the buffs...

[calanos]

At this point is almost feels like they are trying to force Demo on locks as the FOTM spec. Another flat 5-10% reduction to Destro and Affliction certainly sounds like it will be crippling.

At least they have been routinely undoing some of the nerfs this PTR, hopefully at least Destro will be undone. Its not like it was looking terribly rosy as is.

[Assumi]

I take it the idea of choosing to go petless is heading out the window soon? Even more nerfs, I suspect this will end up going down the route of Glyph of Inquisition. Oh you can choose to take it, and ease your maintenance of it (in this case, get rid of worrying about a pet) but you will do less damage, so it's completely stupid to take unless you don't do anything beyond LFR.