Turkey restarts negociations over EU membership

[Wikiy]

Israel would be an excellent choice for a number of reasons. For starters, it is a developed democratic republic with a stable economy. Second, it is highly Europeanised. Third, entry into the EU might help to allay their fears about invasion from Syria and Israel and make them less aggressive towards the Palestinians.

Israel would be a political nightmare for the EU. The two differ politically so, so much more than any individual countries do in the EU itself. I mean, Israel's treatment of Palestinians, their constant ignoring of UN resolutions, and the fact that they refuse to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty is enough to conclude that they wont be a viable choice for decades.

[Deleted]

So you visited Istanbul and Izmir and concluded that Turkey is highly Islamic? And you claim Famagusta is being a dump? I will just call you are lying. You've never visited Turkey or Famagusta. At best your information depends on biased youtube videos. Guess what I am from Turkey and I live in Famagusta and your bullshit ends here.

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 01:44 AM ----------



Izmir is a very clean City. You were just unlucky.

I visited Turkey once on a business trip, I think we differ on what "clean" actually means, Turkey is not clean by my standards.

[Elegiac]

Israel would be a political nightmare for the EU. The two differ politically so, so much more than any individual countries do in the EU itself. I mean, Israel's treatment of Palestinians, their constant ignoring of UN resolutions, and the fact that they refuse to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty is enough to conclude that they wont be a viable choice for decades.

If the EU wanted to be smart, they'd be willing to overlook said issues and offer a quid pro quo deal with Israel; as said, it might be an excellent way to moderate them.

Israel's foreign policy is driven by fear of invasion, catering to that policy is a sure-fire way to get them to shape up.

[Deleted]

I visited Turkey once on a business trip, I think we differ on what "clean" actually means, Turkey is not clean by my standards.

How long ago if I may ask? Place has changed a lot in the last few years.
And don't you think a quick business trip is a bit too short to cast a judgement?

---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 11:55 PM ----------

If the EU wanted to be smart, they'd be willing to overlook said issues and offer a quid pro quo deal with Israel; as said, it might be an excellent way to moderate them.

Israel's foreign policy is driven by fear of invasion, catering to that policy is a sure-fire way to get them to shape up.

Why would they do that and infuriate the rest of the world?

[Deleted]

How long ago if I may ask? Place has changed a lot in the last few years.
And don't you think a quick business trip is a bit too short to cast a judgement?

---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 11:55 PM ----------



Why would they do that and infuriate the rest of the world?

It was 4 years ago and I was there for nearly 3 weeks.

[Elegiac]

Why would they do that and infuriate the rest of the world?

Europe would gain a useful proxy in the Middle East, the Israeli economy and military, as well as possibly helping to take an active role in the resolution of the conflict there.

What the 'rest of the world' thinks? Who cares? Europe is the birthplace of Realpolitik, I can't imagine any of the Continental powers much care about that the rest of the world thinks.

[Kuntantee]

I did not just visit Constantinople and Nicaea, no.

You live in Cyprus, you mean. Which legitimately belongs to the Republican government in the south.

Actually, you are back paddling hard right now. First you stated the most Western-ish cities in Turkey to be "Higly Islamic" and now you claim you didn't just visit those cities? If you have visited such city, you would name it at the first time I asked. Also, while speaking legitimately, you better use legitimate names of Turkish cities. Tho, it's not shocking to see this kind of posts from you. In every thread, I see you throwing bunch of bullshits around.

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 02:00 AM ----------

I visited Turkey once on a business trip, I think we differ on what "clean" actually means, Turkey is not clean by my standards.

I said Izmir is pretty clean, not every city in Turkey is clean. Which city did you visit by the way?

[Wikiy]

If the EU wanted to be smart, they'd be willing to overlook said issues and offer a quid pro quo deal with Israel; as said, it might be an excellent way to moderate them.

Yeah but that would make the EU look legally and internationally hypocritical. It can't enforce a certain set of conditions for one country and allow another to enter without meeting the same conditions.

[Deleted]

It was 4 years ago and I was there for nearly 3 weeks.

I would suggest trying again a few times. What goes wrong once might improve net time. The place is real nice on so many levels.

What the hell happened to you signature!

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 12:02 AM ----------

Europe would gain a useful proxy in the Middle East, the Israeli economy and military, as well as possibly helping to take an active role in the resolution of the conflict there.

What the 'rest of the world' thinks? Who cares? Europe is the birthplace of Realpolitik, I can't imagine any of the Continental powers much care about that the rest of the world thinks.

It really shows from the way you think that you live in a land far far away from Europe.

[Elegiac]

It really shows from the way you think that you live in a land far far away from Europe.

I live in the US currently, but I've lived here and there, and am quite Europeanised thanks.

[Deleted]

If turkey is 50-100 years back with a GDP growth 8 times Spain, a moderate society, a strong middle class, and a government that actually look after its own country, I'd gladly go back 50-100 years myself, instead of being locked in this grim present in this bland europe that has no sustainable economic future.

You keep spouting that line like GDP growth figures should grant a free pass to the EU. Yeah, it's high. Care to point out the differences in GDP and GDP per capita between Turkey and Spain? Or are you also going to show us the GDP growth of Germany and puff your chest at how great you're doing as well? Being an economic powerhouse is all fun and games until the ILO comes in to remind you that child labour is not very likely to get you in the EU, or anywhere else for that matter. Basic things like that are what concern us, bland europeans.

[Elegiac]

Yeah but that would make the EU look legally and internationally hypocritical. It can't enforce a certain set of conditions for one country and allow another to enter without meeting the same conditions.

Who says they need to quote the human rights garbage for Turkey? Just reject them on the basis of not being Europeanised - it is the truth of the matter, after all.

---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 04:07 PM ----------

Actually, you are back paddling hard right now. First you stated the most Western-ish cities in Turkey to be "Higly Islamic" and now you claim you didn't just visit those cities? If you have visited such city, you would name it at the first time I asked. Also, while speaking legitimately, you better use legitimate names of Turkish cities. Tho, it's not shocking to see this kind of posts from you. In every thread, I see you throwing bunch of bullshits around

Back-pedalling? I stated I visited more places than just the two you listed in the original post, period. Furthermore, even the 'westernised' cities were Islamic with, as I mentioned, the enforced secular overlay.

I'm a historian, I tend to use historical names when referring to places in the Levant and Asia Minor. Personal habit.

[Deleted]

I would suggest trying again a few times. What goes wrong once might improve net time. The place is real nice on so many levels.

What the hell happened to you signature!

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 12:02 AM ----------



It really shows from the way you think that you live in a land far far away from Europe.

It obviously offended a moderator and I got infracted for it being too large, even though it was just text and not an image.

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 12:12 AM ----------

Actually, you are back paddling hard right now. First you stated the most Western-ish cities in Turkey to be "Higly Islamic" and now you claim you didn't just visit those cities? If you have visited such city, you would name it at the first time I asked. Also, while speaking legitimately, you better use legitimate names of Turkish cities. Tho, it's not shocking to see this kind of posts from you. In every thread, I see you throwing bunch of bullshits around.

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 02:00 AM ----------



I said Izmir is pretty clean, not every city in Turkey is clean. Which city did you visit by the way?

Istanbul, Malatya and Izmir. I was there as a liaison between British and Turkish military forces, so got to see quite a few military bases. Lots of traveling between them too, got to see quite a bit.

[Kuntantee]

Back-pedalling? I stated I visited more places than just the two you listed in the original post, period. Furthermore, even the 'westernised' cities were Islamic with, as I mentioned, the enforced secular overlay.

I, too, prefer historical names while speaking history but we do not right now. The secularism is not enforced in Turkey, It's highly embraced, if you open your eyes, you can see it. If it wasn't embraced, there would be a regime change to whatever that's not "enforced".

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 02:17 AM ----------

It obviously offended a moderator and I got infracted for it being too large, even though it was just text and not an image.

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 12:12 AM ----------



Istanbul, Malatya and Izmir. I was there as a liaison between British and Turkish military forces, so got to see quite a few military bases. Lots of traveling between them too, got to see quite a bit.

Never been in Malatya. Some places in Istanbul is dump, some places are clean. Izmir is pretty clean except for ghettos.

[Elegiac]

I, too, prefer historical names while speaking history but we do not right now. The secularism is not enforced in Turkey, It's highly embraced, if you open your eyes, you can see it. If it wasn't embraced, there would be a regime change to whatever that's not "enforced".

The secularism -is- in fact, enforced. And I highly expect a metapolitefsi (to use the Greek term) sooner than later in Turkey, dispelling the illusions of their Westernization once and for all.

[Kuntantee]

The secularism -is- in fact, enforced. And I highly expect a metapolitefsi (to use the Greek term) sooner than later in Turkey, dispelling the illusions of their Westernization once and for all.

I highly disagree. I actually noticed you are pretty ignorant about Turkish people.

[Ave07]

So what does religion have to do with the EU?

[Elegiac]

I highly disagree.

Good for you. In the meantime, I will continue to oppose Turkey's membership in the EU and advocate their booting from NATO, too.

---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 04:21 PM ----------

So what does religion have to do with the EU?

Because Islam is not just a religion for many people, being a sociocultural phenomenon as well. Furthermore, many European countries are having problems with their Islamic minorities - Britain, France, Germany to name the three largest.

[Wikiy]

Who says they need to quote the human rights garbage for Turkey? Just reject them on the basis of not being Europeanised - it is the truth of the matter, after all.

I'm not even talking about Turkey. There's simply a set of criteria every country must fulfill before they can be considered for membership. Letting Israel in with the current issues would be hypocritical and would go against those official criteria.

[Elegiac]

I'm not even talking about Turkey. There's simply a set of criteria every country must fulfill before they can be considered for membership. Letting Israel in with the current issues would be hypocritical and would go against those official criteria.

I'm sure they can be fudged in some way; as for hypocrisy, again, that implies that they should or do care about what the rest of the world thinks.