Varian should be exiled from the alliance.

[mordale]

Two of the three major Empires in Ancient Azeroth were trolls, and as I've stated the Elves fought the Third Insect empire as well. But stay angry if you want.

if your using the fact the trolls broke the aqir empire as justification for the trolls being the rightful rulers of azeroth then the fact the elves broke the troll empires justifies them as azeroth's rightful rulers.

then again none of this matters cause azeroth still belongs to the titans, as in if they wished the whole planet would cease to be.

[Uennie]

TY, but I meant the whole Nelfs siding with Pandarians.
I

Oh let's see here ... hmm ...

"Before the night elves were addicted to arcane magic and summoned the Burning Legion to Azeroth, the pandarens were a close ally to the night elves. Some of them even lived with the night elves and witnessed the power of the Well of Eternity. Yet after the night elves became obsessed with the well, the pandarens decided to sever the tie and enclose their border in Pandaria.[10]"

That's all I've got, aside from a tidbit where primitive night elves were enslaved by the Zandalari but that's about it. Nothing about the Night Elves helping the uprising (not even here http://www.wowpedia.org/Pandaren_revolution ).

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 07:58 AM ----------

Bolded section is the important part. The Titans arrived on Azeroth twice, as the Titans originally didn't know about the Old Gods on the planet (or the Old Gods arrived after the Titans' first visit) and left before they showed up. They returned to vanquish the Old Gods when they started causing problems. Thus, we only know that the Trolls predate the Titans' second visit. We know about the two different visits because of the Halls of Stone dialogue with Brann and the machine, and how it's worded.

Wowpedia is using the source incorrectly and claiming something slightly different from what the source actually says.

Except the question was asked the way it was and answered the way it was *shrugs*. Technically pre-second trip is still pre-subdue. I can't control the semenatics, sorry, just quoting.

[Cannis866]

Well in Battle for Undercity was it not Varian who charged head long at Thrall

[Thrive]

Night Elves aiding the Pandaren is well before 5.2 The Pandaren tried hard to steer Azshara away from her obsession with Arcane power but their pleas fell on deaf ears.

No one is debating this. What is flat out BS is you saying the Trolls knew nothing of the Night Elves existence until they were attacked and that the trolls never took slaves.

They tended not to. Most of the time they would just kill every non-troll. They were very savage. Also were is the source on the Nelfs aiding Pandaren because I've never heard it

[mordale]

What races were on Azeroth before the coming of the titans?
Besides the elementals, the only known sentient races on Azeroth when the titans' forces arrived to subdue the Old Gods were the trolls, the race known as "faceless ones," and the aqir. Due to the Old Gods' war against the titans, as well as the extensive terraforming that followed the war's conclusion, records of what races existed before even the Old Gods' arrival have likely been lost forever.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Ask_CDev

And the first paragraph of the Troll page states they were one of the first pre-Titan races.

So ... I guess it's everyone else on the Troll's/Faceless One's/Aqir's land isn't it ...

no, it states that they existed WHEN THE TITANS RETURNED.

fucking hell, the time the titans came to deal with the old gods was the SECOND time they were on azeroth.

[Scummer]

This is what I awake to?! Poor Varian . I just find it a little funny how he who shall not be named entered the last thread and called people who disagreed with him "alliance kids", then does this childish thing.

Long live the King!

Well in Battle for Undercity was it not Varian who charged head long at Thrall

It was also Varian who made peace following the defeat of the Lich King and retracted that statement.

[Justignoreme]

They tended not to. Most of the time they would just kill every non-troll. They were very savage. Also were is the source on the Nelfs aiding Pandaren because I've never heard it

They enslaved their spirits, which was far worse... Scroll up

[Uennie]

no, it states that they existed WHEN THE TITANS RETURNED.

fucking hell, the time the titans came to deal with the old gods was the SECOND time they were on azeroth.

Don't you cuss at me, I was just quoting I'm not championing anything. People asked for a source from someone and I gave it. I'm not the one using it in an argument, I just offered a feasible (if even that) explanation for it. Calm your farm mister.

[Thrive]

Oh let's see here ... hmm ...

"Before the night elves were addicted to arcane magic and summoned the Burning Legion to Azeroth, the pandarens were a close ally to the night elves. Some of them even lived with the night elves and witnessed the power of the Well of Eternity. Yet after the night elves became obsessed with the well, the pandarens decided to sever the tie and enclose their border in Pandaria.[10]"

That's all I've got, aside from a tidbit where primitive night elves were enslaved by the Zandalari but that's about it. Nothing about the Night Elves helping the uprising (not even here http://www.wowpedia.org/Pandaren_revolution ).[COLOR="red"]

Thank you, I appreciate. In that case I your right they apparently did enslave night elves, but I'd assume it would be more of taking them as another tribe such as the Darkspears used to be than slavery. Like avassal, but I won't claim that until I find what was exactly said.

[Uennie]

Thank you, I appreciate. In that case I your right they apparently did enslave night elves, but I'd assume it would be more of taking them as another tribe such as the Darkspears used to be than slavery. Like avassal, but I won't claim that until I find what was exactly said.

"At the beginning of the world, now known as Azeroth, the god-like titans created a magical well — dubbed the Well of Eternity. According to Freya, Cenarius, and the Tribunal of Ages, it was a tribe of dark trolls that eventually evolved into the Kaldorei night elves.[1]
The primitive night elves were enslaved by the Zandalari trolls. When the pandaren revolted against their masters, the mogu, the Zandalari sent aid to the mogu people.
Over time, the Well of Eternity became the source of their power, wisdom, and indirectly even their immortality. This immense source of mystical energy shone like a beacon throughout the Twisting Nether, eventually claiming the attention of Sargeras, the dark titan, Destroyer of Worlds, as he sought to claim its power as his own."

http://www.wowpedia.org/Night_elves

There ya go. I'll note that while it says the Zandalari sent aid, on the Pandaren Revolution page there are zero Night Elves mentioned.

Seems like a tie.

[Justignoreme]

Nothing was mentioned in MoP thus far, about the Night Elf interaction with the Trolls and the line in bold was never verified anywhere, just fyi.

[leaks]

no, it states that they existed WHEN THE TITANS RETURNED.

fucking hell, the time the titans came to deal with the old gods was the SECOND time they were on azeroth.

It doesn't say "when the titans returned" and the question specifically asked what races were there before the coming of the titans. It does not ask who was there when they came back. The way it was answered could be understood either way depending on which one you want to believe. It is not cut and dry and regardless doesn't change my original point. The titans did not create trolls.

[Uennie]

Nothing was mentioned in MoP thus far, about the Night Elf interaction with the Trolls and the line in bold was never verified anywhere, just fyi.

So ... Night Elves were never slaves? That's just complete and utter speculation?

[mordale]

Don't you cuss at me, I was just quoting I'm not championing anything. People asked for a source from someone and I gave it. I'm not the one using it in an argument, I just offered a feasible (if even that) explanation for it. Calm your farm mister.

"So ... I guess it's everyone else on the Troll's/Faceless One's/Aqir's land isn't it ..."

so, you didn't say that?

i'm not cussing at you so much and more at people who don't know the lore talking about it while only knowing part of whats out there.

[Uennie]

"So ... I guess it's everyone else on the Troll's/Faceless One's/Aqir's land isn't it ..."

so, you didn't say that?

i'm not cussing at you so much and more at people who don't know the lore talking about it while only knowing part of whats out there.

It was just a joke. Hence the face. I'm sorry. If you really wanted to argue that point technically Night Elves ARE Trolls so it is their land.

[mordale]

It does't say "when the titans returned' and the question specifically asked what races were there before the coming of the titans. It does not ask who there when they came back. The way it was answered could be understood either way depending on which one you want to believe. It is not cut and dry and regardless doesn't change my original point. The titans did not create trolls.

this kind of person, uennie.

here you go "Besides the elementals, the only known sentient races on Azeroth when the titans' forces arrived to subdue the Old Godswere the trolls, the race known as "faceless ones," and the aqir."

thats the second time the titans were on azeroth, since you clearly don't know the lore, leaks.


note: came off more aggressive then i mean to be.

[Uennie]

this kind of person, uennie.

here you go "Besides the elementals, the only known sentient races on Azeroth when the titans' forces arrived to subdue the Old Godswere the trolls, the race known as "faceless ones," and the aqir."

thats the second time the titans were on azeroth, since you clearly don't know the lore.

Not part of this, I'm not passing judgment on anyone atm @_@ ... Just throwing out sources.

[leaks]

this kind of person, uennie.

here you go "Besides the elementals, the only known sentient races on Azeroth when the titans' forces arrived to subdue the Old Godswere the trolls, the race known as "faceless ones," and the aqir."

thats the second time the titans were on azeroth, since you clearly don't know the lore, leaks.

I'm totally aware of that. I'm saying that based on the actual question asked it could be understood either way. If in fact they meant "when the titans returned" they missed the point of the actual question and answered it wrong. And are you really going to sit here and give people shit about knowing the lore when it was you that stated:

the trolls were not the original holders of azeroth, they like many others are creations of the titans.

Come on buddy, calm down. It's just a discussion.

[Thrive]

this kind of person, uennie.

here you go "Besides the elementals, the only known sentient races on Azeroth when the titans' forces arrived to subdue the Old Gods were the trolls, the race known as "faceless ones," and the aqir."
thats the second time the titans were on azeroth.

Even so, the Titans didn't actually create any race until their second time coming to Azeroth (at least that's recorded), when the Earthern were built to help fight and maintain control.

[mordale]

I'm totally aware of that. I'm saying that based on the actual question asked it could be understood either way. If in fact they meant "when the titans returned" they missed the point of the actual question and answered it wrong. And are you really going to sit here and give people shit about knowing the lore when it was you that stated:



Come on buddy, calm down. It's just a discussion.

i was assuming subdue meant the time they dealt with the CoF, not the initial war.

seeing the way the quote could mean either... im not sure which they mean.

i'm still leaning they mean the second time however.