Varian should be exiled from the alliance.

[Trassk]

I'm just going to leave some pointers too.


- Varian wanted any excuse to go to war with the horde, even when its current warchief and the alliances acting peace negotiator tried to settle things

- He attended a summit Jaina arranged, and at a moments notice he attacked Thrall because of seeing someone he had no evidence of being associated with the horde there (Garona, the half orc who killed his father), and showed Garrosh humans can't be trusted.

- He further pushed this when the meeting in dalaran occurred and he egged Garrosh on to attack him, leading Garrosh to further see humans as scum that needs to be wiped out.

- He came to undercity with Jaina to fight against those that caused the wrath gate, and attacked Thrall, which owrd obviously got back to Garrosh.


At every turn in wrath, Varian made Garrosh see humans are scum who will attack orcs without thought or honor. Accusing anyone else of starting this war, even Garrosh himself, who is the biggest warmonger currently in warcraft, only started it because he was provoked by the alliances ruler.

[KrazyK923]

Varian wanted any excuse to go to war with the horde, even when its current warchief and the alliances acting peace negotiator tried to settle things

Proof of this? None. Its opinion.

- He attended a summit Jaina arranged, and at a moments notice he attacked Thrall because of seeing someone he had no evidence of being associated with the horde there (Garona, the half orc who killed his father), and showed Garrosh humans can't be trusted.

Plain false and a warp of what actually happened. Varian points his sword at Thrall and says he sent Garona to kill him. Garrosh does the exact same thing. And yet its Varian who...gets the blame?

- He further pushed this when the meeting in dalaran occurred and he egged Garrosh on to attack him, leading Garrosh to further see humans as scum that needs to be wiped out.

See above. You should actually watch the trailer. Varian says, "What are they doing here?" Garrosh unsheathes his weapons and says, "I thought I smelled the stench of Alliance pigs." Tell me how Varian eggs on Garrosh again please.

- He came to undercity with Jaina to fight against those that caused the wrath gate, and attacked Thrall, which owrd obviously got back to Garrosh.

Yeah...kind of because Thrall, who was the Warchief, failed to keep tabs on Sylvanas. So much so that her top adviser betrayed her and killed somebody Varian considered a brother. Somebody who kept Stormwind stable while Varian was gone, and raised his son while he was gone. The Undercity is honestly the only point you have where Varian is the aggressor.

If Varian wanted War with the Horde at all costs, he would have attacked the Horde in Icecrown. He didn't, and the Horde did.

If Varian wanted War with the Horde at all costs, he would not have allowed Saurfang to retrieve his son. He did.

If Varian wanted War with the Horde at all costs, he would have allowed Jaina to go stir crazy wtfpwn on Orgrimmar. He didn't.

If Varian wanted War with the Horde at all costs, he would have had the Alliance use the Sha against the Horde. He doesn't.

If Varian wanted War with the Horde, he would have sent his fleet in "Tides of War" to attack Orgrimmar just to attack it. He didn't. He did so to distract them so he could free the Night Elves from the blockade.

If Varian wanted War with the Horde at all costs, he wouldn't have blatantly said that the Alliance don't fight a War the same way the Horde does. With weapons of mass destruction.

Ad fucking nauseum.

Your point about Sylvanas and the Plague is wrong. Your point about the Ulduar trailer was wrong. I play the Alliance, but what the hell is the point in lying about something so your side seems like the better one? Varian isn't innocent, but pretending he's some Warmonger who is responsible for the lore is just false.

[remeran12]

This is ridiculous, Varian was reasonably upset and Garrosh's first instinct is to take it as an insult? Why not do what a normal person who isn't a hot head would do? Like you know, try and diffuse the situation like everyone else was trying to do. Hell even the Know Your Lore writer you cited disagrees with you.

I'm not saying that it was all Thrall's fault, or that Varian isn't to blame a little somehow. But there is no doubt that Garrosh is the instigator in the comic.

[Alixie]

Anndddd the win of the day goes to Trassk!

Not exactly a win when I'm pretty much done with the game, because among other points, it's getting stale. A bunch of other races and leaders to make stories for, or continue, and they just ignore everyone but Garrosh, Thrall, and Varian. I guess ignoring the other characters is better than cocking them up, like Jaina and Tyrande.

[Xalzel]

Seriously, also this^

Jaina would have flown Dalaran to Orgrimmar and destroyed the entire place by now if it wasn't for Varian claiming that the Alliance will not fight the War in the way the Horde have (You know, using weapons of mass destruction).

There is no way should would have tried that. She had no idea how many other bombs / secret weapons they could have. The Mana Bomb could be one of a hundred, or even a thousand. If she tried that what would stop Sylvantis from wheeling boatloads of plague into Stormwind harbor, or then Goblins from suicide bombing Stormwind. Not trying to sound Horde bias but we have MANY more lethal weapons and would probably be willing to go much further than the Alliance to win.

[Deleted]

Here is how i see it and i doubt you can argue with this , let's PRESUME Varian was the fuel for Garrosh ok?

Varian angered a nobody , untill Thrall MADE him a somebody , gave him power, gave him everything.

No doubt Varian has many enemies in the ranks of the horde but since they don't have power they don't do anything, they can't = nothing happens or hear of those angry characters. Thrall gave Garrosh power to use for his hatred. He knew how Garrosh was, he had others to choose from . He screwed up.

[Cloud2038]

What upsets me is after everything the horde has done, Malfurion still doesnt get involved. They are chopping down his sacred forest daily. They are killing his people in Ashenvale. They killed his God and mentor on a whim. The nuke theramore and build plague designed to kill millions. As the most powerful being who isn't a God on the planet, you'd think he'd intervene at some point...

[remeran12]

I'm just going to leave some pointers too.


- Varian wanted any excuse to go to war with the horde, even when its current warchief and the alliances acting peace negotiator tried to settle things

- He attended a summit Jaina arranged, and at a moments notice he attacked Thrall because of seeing someone he had no evidence of being associated with the horde there (Garona, the half orc who killed his father), and showed Garrosh humans can't be trusted.

- He further pushed this when the meeting in dalaran occurred and he egged Garrosh on to attack him, leading Garrosh to further see humans as scum that needs to be wiped out.

- He came to undercity with Jaina to fight against those that caused the wrath gate, and attacked Thrall, which owrd obviously got back to Garrosh.


At every turn in wrath, Varian made Garrosh see humans are scum who will attack orcs without thought or honor. Accusing anyone else of starting this war, even Garrosh himself, who is the biggest warmonger currently in warcraft, only started it because he was provoked by the alliances ruler.

-When are you talking about? Wrath?

-Not true, Garona's allegiance has pretty much leaned toward the Horde. See my first post about it

-He didnt egg garrosh on, he wasnt told that people he believed to be his enemy were attending the meeting and inquired about it. Then Garrosh threw an insult

-At that point he still blamed the horde for the Wrathgate which again is understandable because all the facts weren't out at the time. Even then, both Varian and Garrosh have changed a lot since then. Varian for the better and Garrosh for the worst.

[vindicatorx]

There is no way should would have tried that. She had no idea how many other bombs / secret weapons they could have. The Mana Bomb could be one of a hundred, or even a thousand. If she tried that what would stop Sylvantis from wheeling boatloads of plague into Stormwind harbor, or then Goblins from suicide bombing Stormwind. Not trying to sound Horde bias but we have MANY more lethal weapons and would probably be willing to go much further than the Alliance to win.

You are confusing Jaina Leader of the Kirin Tor as an Alliance entity. She wanted to in her own words wanted to go to Org and "kill every man, woman, and child". When the Blood Elves betray her she orders us to purge them from Dalaran. I'm just saying I think you underestimate Jaina's power.

[Uennie]

What upsets me is after everything the horde has done, Malfurion still doesnt get involved. They are chopping down his sacred forest daily. They are killing his people in Ashenvale. They killed his God and mentor on a whim. The nuke theramore and build plague designed to kill millions. As the most powerful being who isn't a God on the planet, you'd think he'd intervene at some point...

Very subjective.

But yeah, agreed with the point that "what is he doing". Or isn't he doing, really. We have to remember though that this is the guy who left his wife high and dry for thousands of years and exiled his own brother for saving the world because of his xenophobia.

OT: No, don't believe he should be exiled, but I feel like the posed question was rhetorical anyway.

[mordale]

There is no way should would have tried that. She had no idea how many other bombs / secret weapons they could have. The Mana Bomb could be one of a hundred, or even a thousand. If she tried that what would stop Sylvantis from wheeling boatloads of plague into Stormwind harbor, or then Goblins from suicide bombing Stormwind. Not trying to sound Horde bias but we have MANY more lethal weapons and would probably be willing to go much further than the Alliance to win.

the mana bomb was one of a kind, it was made with the focusing iris an artifact of power stolen from the blue dragon-flight.

[Justignoreme]

Yes, this is a valid point. Although I think it was kind of hard for the developers to figure out how to do it, because a lot of Alliance also clamored for a strong leader figure before. I don't like how Tyrande is being portrayed, but I understand the directions that Blizzard wants to take for this Alliance/Horde war.

That's not true exactly. What I remember was we wanted our leaders to do something rather than sit idly by and let the Horde keep cheapshotting and blindsiding us. We asked that if they were going to say both sides are shades of grey that we also had a good massacre and slaughter of the Horde while they were busy focusing on the big bad. That has yet to happen, and never will. Only a minority of those who posted on the story forums liked the idea of a High King. We wanted strong leaders bringing the strengths of the individual races of the Alliance to the forefront and standing united. What we got was all the other races having no strength and putting their faith and power into Varian so humans can save the day.
Cdev didn't give shit for any of it. They went with what they want which is what we were stuck with then thumbed their noses at us. That's fine; their story with respect to factions and races is shit and always will be.

[KrazyK923]

I dont mind a High King, I just hate how they're making Varian seem good at the expense of the other leaders.

btw, I didn't report Trassk. Just fyi.

[Justignoreme]

Very subjective.

But yeah, agreed with the point that "what is he doing". Or isn't he doing, really. We have to remember though that this is the guy who left his wife high and dry for thousands of years and exiled his own brother for saving the world because of his xenophobia.

Learn the definition of xenophobia please. I see a whole lot of people mentioning it, with respect to night elves, and having no clue what it means. Malfurion exiled Illidan because he transformed into a demon, because he didn't temper his quest for power with any wisdom at all, it's a problem of Illidan that got him imprisoned 10000 years ago. It had NOTHING to do with "xenophobia". Night Elves are not xenophobic. They don't fear other races, they don't like picking up their burdens or trying to explain their position as millennia old beings to people whose lifespans account for their total time taking a piss over 10000 years.

[Shakari]

Bzzzzz, WRONG, it was a rogue group that caused the wrath gate, and your Varian who accused the horde of it happening.
'oh but Sylvanas was making the plague in the first place', yes, as a weapon to defend against the alliance. And with captain chin over there, can you blame them for it?

Sorry, Thrall and his horde was prepared to fight alongside the alliance, and to an extent so was the alliance, but Varian made the swings that made it impossible.

The creation by Sylvanas of the plague was not for defence lol anything but defence.

And rogue or not the horde did instigate the wrategate incident, coming with the "oh they were rogue elements" doesn't really cut it as an excuse.

And after being tortured and forced to fight as a gladiator I think Varien is entitled to some hatred towards the race that put him through it.

OH and during the war how much territory and gains did Varian seek ... none, its was Garrosh that did all that, as the Wrathion story arc reveals.

Varian is no goody two shoes he is to scared for that but he is learning by his mistakes and his son should be even better.

[Justignoreme]

At every turn in wrath, Varian made Garrosh see humans are scum who will attack orcs without thought or honor.

Garrosh was already prejudiced towards humans before he met Varian. And that's fine, what of the Night Elves? The people who had to deal with his hatred, bloodshed and murder the most? What of them? Which Night Elf came and pissed in his cheerios? Garrosh is a bigot, a thug, and a criminal, that's all he ever was. Anything assuaging his condition is nothing but an excuse. Thrall, like a parent who raised a monster, isn't responsible for his condition, but neither is Varian...

[Ianus]

and alliance thinks trassks head should be on pike...

[Uennie]

Learn the definition of xenophobia please. I see a whole lot of people mentioning it, with respect to night elves, and having no clue what it means. Malfurion exiled Illidan because he transformed into a demon, because he didn't temper his quest for power with any wisdom at all, it's a problem of Illidan that got him imprisoned 10000 years ago. It had NOTHING to do with "xenophobia". Night Elves are not xenophobic. They don't fear other races, they don't like picking up their burdens or trying to explain their position as millennia old beings to people whose lifespans account for their total time taking a piss over 10000 years.

The Night Elves are extremely racist, even towards members of the Alliance. It's just a fact, I'm sorry if you don't like it.

[Skytotem]

Well, this is a silly thread made in retaliation to another silly thread, but I just want to point out that Varian's march out of Theramore to the gates of Mulgore (and the razing of Camp Taurajo) was the first major act of war. So it's not entirely stupid to place some of the blame for the conflict at his feet.

Actually Garrosh's attempted push in the "wolfheart" novel was retconned to take place first.

[Deleted]

Trassk got banned? :S And here i was refreshing the page waiting for him to reply to my " Varian angered a nobody until thrall made him a somebody" line regarding Garrosh.