Question Hast Cap 10124

[Viromand]

Oh, cmon. Why not just admit that he is low skill priest? Many others even in worse gear can get much better results then him.
And his advices should be readed through prism of that thought.

If he cant manage his DPS, why he can give advice to anyone? I really dont get it.

His rank limit on most bosses nearly 80%. Its terrific.
His log from StoneGuards (25 feb):
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/q...1/?s=430&e=661
VT uptime 70% - WOOOOT???? 52 sec there was NO VT at all on any guards... And all other time he cant even manage to multidot 2 target...
MB every 21 sec - you kidding right?

Feng - 85% VT uptime, MB every 11 sec. Epicenter debuff uptime only 6sec.

And that guy teach you how to play SP?
Ok, I get it.

I just leave that thread to you and your shadow priest idol who cant play WoW properly.

StoneGuards 10hc alot of different strategies how to handel redchains so if he was running all the time getting stacks for the raid its more worht then him doin 10k dps more.

ON feng yeah 85% vt uptime and MB every 11 sec is really bad. but not doing sonmething doesnt mean he doenst know how to do it. but still i know that after 8085 haste all secondary stats are near equal with haste beeing a bit better but the differents is so low you will likely never get to see it in logs or anywhere else

[Deleted]

...

You do realise that the rankings on WoL are mostly saturated with players intentionality whoring dps in order to try and get a rank? This mostly involves the rest of the raid carrying you through the fight whilst you never switch tagets, never move, never intterupt / dispel / cc/ whatever with the sole intention of getting a rank e.g. Elegon; never going for sparks, never soaking the add explosion (heroic mode), rarely resetting stacks, extending the high dps nuke phase as long as possible by having others stop dps in order to make it appear that your dps is godly. When actually, in a proper fight, you just wouldn't do things like this.

Another example, cleaving on Protectors. Need I say more?

I honestly don't give a fuck about WoL. Progression is the best test of a player imo, and even that is not a sure thing. Twintops theory is sound and thats all I need to know. Applying the theory is another thing entirely, and that's not something that Twintops guides attempt to tell you how to do, that part is up to you. You do know the difference between theory and practice right?


FYI, it could be that on that Feng log Twintop needed to start offhealing / disperse in order to prevent a wipe because not wiping > WoL ranking.

[Twintop]

Being 16/16H before 5.2 must mean I'm bad, right? All while raiding 3nights a week/12hours total.

I don't meter whore. I don't bother trying to rank because I don't need an epeen stroking -- ESPECIALLY at this point in a tier (too many others with superior gear to my own). My gear is good but not great, thanks in part to missing the first month of MoP because I was on my honeymoon, and also thanks in part to a final push to clear content in my guild before 5.2 drops. Do I care? No. Obviously what I have is enough to clear the content.

I rather enjoy how you cherry-picked the 10man offnight/alt runs I was helping with as proof I don't know what I'm doing, while not including other parses where I've been 85-90+ percentile in 25man in the same situations (or, ya'know, my top-200 rank on the Shadow ranks as HolyDPS on Heroic Wind Lord when we downed it in December). Classy.

If you don't want my theorycrafting advice, don't take it. You can criticize it all you want (and I will retort), but as soon as you shift from attacking the work to attacking the author you lose all credibility.

[Arlee]

Spam filter strikes again! Reposting this because it was caught a likely missed.

That's an incredible piece of theorycraft. Thank you for the time you've invested in it.

Clearly, the buff to PI & the new MFI will change our play style radically. A complete departure from the importance of maintaining ToF uptime.

I know it's off topic and a separate thread in itself but... do you think it will be necessary to time PI, DPx3orb, MFI with LMG procs? Or would it be a dps loss to do so?

[Twintop]

That's an incredible piece of theorycraft. Thank you for the time you've invested in it.

You're welcome

Clearly, the buff to PI & the new MFI will change our play style radically. A complete departure from the importance of maintaining ToF uptime.

I wouldn't say it is a complete departure from ToF uptime. In fights with adds that spawn and die (Elegon, H: Sha, Ambershaper, as examples) ToF would probably win out because of uptime potentials. There is a breakeven point somewhere on ToF uptime% that will make it overtake PI...I'm just not sure where that is yet, nor does this set of sims/tests address anything with adds (I'm working on it, though).

I know it's off topic and a separate thread in itself but... do you think it will be necessary to time PI, DPx3orb, MFI with LMG procs? Or would it be a dps loss to do so?

LMG has roughly a ~20% uptime in theory (I'm anxious to see where it stands in practice). They will likely be too sporadic to do a lot of timing for buff/proc stacking, so holding off on using PI/DP/MFI for it to proc isn't likely going to give you a noticeable boost (it might cause you to lose DPS). Remember though, these sims use those abilities when they're available without any delay.

[stickyjam]

You do realise that the rankings on WoL are mostly saturated with players intentionality whoring dps in order to try and get a rank? This mostly involves the rest of the raid carrying you through the fight whilst you never switch tagets, never move, never intterupt / dispel / cc/ whatever with the sole intention of getting a rank e.g. Elegon; never going for sparks, never soaking the add explosion (heroic mode), rarely resetting stacks, extending the high dps nuke phase as long as possible by having others stop dps in order to make it appear that your dps is godly. When actually, in a proper fight, you just wouldn't do things like this.

Another example, cleaving on Protectors. Need I say more?

I honestly don't give a fuck about WoL. Progression is the best test of a player imo, and even that is not a sure thing. Twintops theory is sound and thats all I need to know. Applying the theory is another thing entirely, and that's not something that Twintops guides attempt to tell you how to do, that part is up to you. You do know the difference between theory and practice right?


FYI, it could be that on that Feng log Twintop needed to start offhealing / disperse in order to prevent a wipe because not wiping > WoL ranking.

this, in the times ive raided wrath/cata.. theres always been times ive noticed top ranked players who have reforged not to 100% gemmed not to 100% perfection, specced less than perfect etc. Why do they have top logs? tricks of trade, buff stucking, abusing mechanics to enhance the ranked performance, feeding gear to the toon etc, theres plenty of other factors.

top priests dont have to be perfect to be top, they don't need to fully understand the maths of the class and maths is hard to argue with, thus twintops post is pretty clear cut. < aimed at the infracted guy.

[Blackmorgrim]

Plus, there's also other factors to consider, like not being in a top end guild, being only able to raid part time. Being a dedicated theorycrafter takes its toll on your time particularly while the PTR is up. Also, when you really understand the math behind the game, you generally don't use it on pointless things, like meter fluffing. When your guild has limited time to progress you use it on better things, like looking at how you can maximize your utility.

So rather than fluffing the meter increasing my overall dps by 20%, but decreasing my effective DPS (only actual damage on the protector kill target really matters).
You see stuff like how you can say spec holy on a fight for 10% less dps, but allowing your guild to drop a healer and bring in a full DPS. Twin's also been working on a guide to the viability of Holy DPS. While it won't be competitive with shadow in 5.2 thanks to the shadowform buff, its still a viable spec when you need extra healing for high damage phases, but decent dps for the rest.

That's the kind of stuff you see from a raiding theorycrafter that knows his stuff. Not dedicating raid time to fluffing meters to compete with RNG (Extreme RNG on shadowpriests can be as much as 4x the average DPS, 5-6x in the 99.9th percentile.), or trying to outdo folks on Asian servers, who get 8 extra ilvls of gear in 25 mans, plus upgrades.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

Not to mention that it's pretty much impossible to rank with iLvl 506 gear when all the Priests who have farmed 16/16 HC for a while have like 512, a huuuge difference.

[Szer]

Not to mention that it's pretty much impossible to rank with iLvl 506 gear when all the Priests who have farmed 16/16 HC for a while have like 512, a huuuge difference.

It`s pretty much impossible to rank with 70% dot uptime and MB every 21 sec. And gear wont help.

[Arlee]

All right, do stop the off-topic stuff please. This thread is about a question someone had about Haste, if you disagree with the responses given on that topic it's fine to discuss that. Bashing people for whatever arbitrary reason is not acceptable. Back on topic Please.

[Yetiman]

It`s pretty much impossible to rank with 70% dot uptime and MB every 21 sec. And gear wont help.

You made your point of trying to bash Twintop. It won't help you, or anyone else for that matter, to keep bringing it up. Besides, its detrimental to the discussion going on at hand.

I don't believe that, as Nigel Tufnel stated, and Twintop says, we'll see our play style significantly altered due to the PI and MF:I changes. It'll just come down eventually to an even larger amount of talent-swapping for specific encounters, which most hardcore (and even not-so-hardcore) players already do (if you're using ToF instead of DI in single-target encounters, prepare to be reamed by most priests); however, even swapping talents shouldn't modify your base-line priorities while DPS'ing.

My two cents worth.

[Veiled]

Orly?
How did you realized?

Anyway I cant trust guy who farms 25hm, has awesome gear and... CANT COMPETE WITH OTHERS IN HIS SPEC.

Hi, I'm Veiled, I own HowToPriest.com and am pretty bad at priest. Don't trust me.

[Drye]

Hi, I'm Veiled, I own HowToPriest.com and am pretty bad at priest. Don't trust me.

Do me next, do me! OT: I'm in the process of making a new haste gearing forum post, it should be on h2p by tuesday. I'm just in the process of talking to twin to verify everything.

[Deleted]

Being 16/16H before 5.2 must mean I'm bad, right? .

We stil <3 you :P

Hi, I'm Veiled, I own HowToPriest.com and am pretty bad at priest. Don't trust me.

U2

[marv333]

I really dont understand why did this guy get infracted for saying what he was thinking... I do not agree 100% with all he said but still by reading this post it seems like EVERYONE on the top200 WoL is meter whoring by having his whole raid carry him thru rankings and thats simply untrue. I know alot of good players that score on the top200 on multiple fights weekly without having their whole raid carrying them, they just clear the content by playing extremely well and improve their ranking as their gear progress. The whole meter whoring thing is only true for sub top50 rankings and thats for all specs.

I dont want to stay completely off topic but im pretty sure the OP got his response and I just wanted to throw my 2cents, and im not bashing twintop by anymeans nor his work.

[Deleted]

So should we aim for 10437 haste while keeping our 4x from previous tier, or do those set bonuses become irrelevant?

[Deleted]

if you're running near BiS t14 it's gonna be pretty hard to stay close to 8085 anyway. I picked up the 528 staff tonight and just gave up trying to keep my haste below 9k. I'll run for the 10.5k(ish) now just to make gearing up easier. Regemming to full crit gets tedious

[Drye]

#320hasteistoogud

[Deleted]

#320hasteistoogud

surely without LMG reaching 10437 with int gems intact is the better option?

[Drye]

I'm gemming full haste right now. Mainly due to my ilvl/Shadowform buff. Seeing very nice results.