whos excited to dump their fury spec

[xebtria]

Because dummy dps == actual raid dps? It's never been true, not in BC, not in Wrath, not in Cata and certainly not now.

no because it's a bazillion time more fun to play for me, as I wrote in about the first 50% of my post. nice how you sum it up using the last 5% of it.

and since my dps spec is only my offspec and ToT bosses seems to exclusively have 2 tank fights anyways, which makes me DPS not really often, I am real glad for not having to to play the thing that makes absolute no fun just because it does like 10k dps more.

and I know fury scales better with raid buffs than arms (especially with the 5% crit), which is the exact reason why I assumed that arms doing 5k more dps for me on a dummy may be reason enough for taking it - chances are I will end up at a bit more than 75% of the dmg of fury WITH buffs. because pre 5.2 Arms was BEHIND fury even on the dummy (for me). maybe it is all because I suck at fury gameplay, but then again, why should I play a spec that I suck on and that is not fun, if I'm not even DPS as main?

[Deleted]

Gave Stormbolt + Dragon Roar a whirl last night as Arms.

My CS uptime was ridiculously good, which made using Stormbolt optimally really easy and it was critting for huge amounts (450k+). Dragon Roar was actually feeling a bit awkward because Sudden Death kept proccing.

Overpower reducing MS cooldown does feel a bit odd, in terms of the rhythm of the button presses, and actually makes other spells feel a bit "slow", but it might just take some getting used to. Using MS OP OP OP MS feels pretty nice though.

I very very rarely used Slam. Storm Bolt/Dragon Roar were always used where Slam would otherwise be. If I took Impending Victory (I didn't, but might next raid), I would probably never use Slam at all.

Overall I am quite pleased, in particular with the combined Haste buff and Sudden Death change. Free CS really helps the overall rage gain, and because SD procs so often, it just works very well.

Also: Deep Wounds buff is INSANE for AoE packs. Sweeping Strikes without the glyph is really taxing on rage which is a shame though. Would love very much for it to go back to the old 30 sec CD, free, 100% dmg cleave, as you could tie it in with Stormbolt very easily.

Edit: I think Slam is actually alright like this. If I choose to take Avatar and Bladestorm for argument's sake, then Slam would of course see a lot more use, and I think it's fine that Slam is superseded by high priority "fillers" such as Stormbolt.

[bigbad]

I had a look at:http://simulationcraft.org/520/Raid_T15H.html#player24

Few things that were bugging me. Why impending victory (62k DPE) if you can slam (116k DPE), there is enough rage to use slam and if you combine the DPR from IV with HS it's worse then the DPR of Slam. They're using all the taste for blood procs on OP right away instead of sitting on at least 1 stack for CS so that you can use 3xOP+2xMS/slam inside 1 CS. Should also use Slam or MS as last ability during CS not OP. It doesn't seem to aim for getting executes inside CS instead of OP.

Someone with more knowledge about simcraft improve it please and make arms look better

I was thinking something like:
OP if more then 1 tfb stack left
OP if CS debuff >1.5 sec (so that you use your last stack of tfb during CS but don't use OP as last ability during CS)
Slam

[zolakt]

i was gonna dump my fury spec but 1st boss in ToT drops 1h weapons and I won't be able to roll for it using mogu rune if I stay as arms, that's really holding me back. ilvl 522 weapon vs my ilvl 483 weapon

[Deleted]

i was gonna dump my fury spec but 1st boss in ToT drops 1h weapons and I won't be able to roll for it using mogu rune if I stay as arms, that's really holding me back. ilvl 522 weapon vs my ilvl 483 weapon

The roll >on the coin< looks at your spec when you press the button, not when you kill the boss. So you can kill the boss as arms, switch to fury, and roll your coin to get fury drops.

[Darkfriend]

I was Fury for all of one day when LFR Shin'ka dropped. As soon as I upgraded it so it was better than my Starshatter, I went back to Arms. It's just more aesthetically pleasing to me. I think TG looks really silly, using 1h animations with 2h weapons, in particular the Raging Blow animation is really lame.

I was really disappointed with 5.0 Arms in terms of PvE playstyle and made a loooot of noise about it during MoP's beta. I'm not entirely convinced that 5.2 is going to be much better in terms of "feel" but the damage at least should look a bit tastier. I still think Arms needs the old Deadly Calm back, and maybe Incite/Battle Trance like in 4.3, that was a nice mechanic to watch out for.

Honestly, if you chose your race/spec over aesthetics, this is probably the wrong thread.

[Scummer]

Me!
But not in the way the OP probably had in mind . Atm I just really don't like Fury and don't really fancy going Arms so I've actually decided to re-roll on my Paladin until I like it again.
We (or at least at lower gear levels perhaps) have too much down time where we have a free GCD, and it's just boring. There's too much RNG atm and tbh I dislike not hitting any buttons until CS is up. I also just dislike the fact that Fury needs crit to not only be truly effective but to be fun as otherwise you just don't get the RB procs that you need for damage or to fill up those GCDs.

[zolakt]

The roll >on the coin< looks at your spec when you press the button, not when you kill the boss. So you can kill the boss as arms, switch to fury, and roll your coin to get fury drops.

that's a really great suggestion! thanks!

[Darkfriend]

Gave Stormbolt + Dragon Roar a whirl last night as Arms.

My CS uptime was ridiculously good, which made using Stormbolt optimally really easy and it was critting for huge amounts (450k+). Dragon Roar was actually feeling a bit awkward because Sudden Death kept proccing.

Overpower reducing MS cooldown does feel a bit odd, in terms of the rhythm of the button presses, and actually makes other spells feel a bit "slow", but it might just take some getting used to. Using MS OP OP OP MS feels pretty nice though.

I very very rarely used Slam. Storm Bolt/Dragon Roar were always used where Slam would otherwise be. If I took Impending Victory (I didn't, but might next raid), I would probably never use Slam at all.

Overall I am quite pleased, in particular with the combined Haste buff and Sudden Death change. Free CS really helps the overall rage gain, and because SD procs so often, it just works very well.

Also: Deep Wounds buff is INSANE for AoE packs. Sweeping Strikes without the glyph is really taxing on rage which is a shame though. Would love very much for it to go back to the old 30 sec CD, free, 100% dmg cleave, as you could tie it in with Stormbolt very easily.

Edit: I think Slam is actually alright like this. If I choose to take Avatar and Bladestorm for argument's sake, then Slam would of course see a lot more use, and I think it's fine that Slam is superseded by high priority "fillers" such as Stormbolt.

I'm honestly not at all interested in how things "feel" from a numbers standpoint. Logs prove things, not anecdotal evidence.

As for how fun it is, I kind enjoyed it the hour or so I tried it. But since i'd have to gem/reforge all differently I'll stick Fury for now.

[Flotis]

Fury got pvp buffs thanks blizzard i can continue to play this spec

lmfao fury pvp! Did they make enrage undispellable now?

[Felarion]

Me!
But not in the way the OP probably had in mind . Atm I just really don't like Fury and don't really fancy going Arms so I've actually decided to re-roll on my Paladin until I like it again.
We (or at least at lower gear levels perhaps) have too much down time where we have a free GCD, and it's just boring. There's too much RNG atm and tbh I dislike not hitting any buttons until CS is up. I also just dislike the fact that Fury needs crit to not only be truly effective but to be fun as otherwise you just don't get the RB procs that you need for damage or to fill up those GCDs.

i just respec to arms when 5.2 hit and tbh sometimes my fingers need a break , there is always something to push, you never have any empty global If you got downtime in arms you doing something wrong i think.

[Deleted]

Sorry, but i have to ask this.
With my gear currently i'm way over the hitcap even reforging out of it the best i can. This leads me to the question whether 2 crit-rating > 1-strength still applies, because in that case i can ignore a 120-strength socket bonus, gain some more crit and lose some of that excess hit.

[Gum]

Tossy, you have to remember how stats work - Right now you also waste Hit rating, making a gemswap even better. The only way to know for sure if its a worthy tradeoff is to sim yourself to get your statweights.
My estimate is that its a good swap - But i cant say for sure

[Darkfriend]

Sorry, but i have to ask this.
With my gear currently i'm way over the hitcap even reforging out of it the best i can. This leads me to the question whether 2 crit-rating > 1-strength still applies, because in that case i can ignore a 120-strength socket bonus, gain some more crit and lose some of that excess hit.

Yes in some cases 1 crit beats out 1 strength even. But if you are thinking of dropping a 120 strength socket bonus, don't. You won't gain enough crit to make it worth it. On the +60 sockets (like on tier legs) it was worth losing- barely.

[CollisionTD]

Not to be insulting, but as many people have stated, your rotation changes nothing. You still end up losing raging blow charges your way, except you delay BT. I don't care what simcraft says, look at your rotation and tell me what that fixes exactly. Simcraft is not the bible, use your own head.

Allright.

I'm gonna walk you guys through this slowly, since you all are just being insulting now. I deleted the lines that aren't relevant, and I apologize if this seems insulting, but I feel like you all are missing a very basic part of this.

actions+=/raging_blow,if=buff.raging_blow.stack=2&debuff.colossus_smash.up&target.health.pct>=20
# If colossus smash is on a non-execute range target, and we have 2 stacks of raging blow, this line will trigger.

actions+=/bloodthirst,if=!(target.health.pct<20&debuff.colossus_smash.up&rage>=30)
# If CS is up, the target is in execute range and we have less than 30 rage, this line triggers.

actions+=/wait,sec=cooldown.bloodthirst.remains,if=!(target.health.pct<20&debuff.colossus_smash.up&r age>=30)&cooldown.bloodthirst.remains<=1&cooldown.bloodthirst.remains
# If the cooldown on bloodthirst is less than 1 second, and we are not in execute range, this line tells simcraft to pause all other actions for the length of time left on bloodthirst's cooldown.

actions+=/colossus_smash
#Uses CS

actions+=/raging_blow,if=buff.raging_blow.stack=2|(buff.raging_blow.up&(debuff.colossus_smash.up|coo ldown.colossus_smash.remains>=3|(cooldown.bloodthirst.remains>=1&buff.raging_blow.remains< =3)))
#This line forces raging blow to be used if any of the following are true:
1: 2 stacks of RB
2: CS is up
3: CS cooldown is MORE THAN 3 seconds away
4: Cooldown on bloodthirst is more than 1 second away, and the buff on raging blow will expire in less than 3 seconds.

Notice that none of that line mentions to use raging blow with only one stack, unless that one stack will expire very soon or CS is more than 3 seconds away. This is important, and I think that's where you all are missing the point.

actions+=/wild_strike,if=buff.bloodsurge.react
#If it goes through the action list and none of the above lines toggle, then it will use your bloodsurge proc.

Now, put all of that together. Let's setup a scenario.

CS is exactly 3 seconds away

BT-Procs an RB charge.
(Open GCD, as we only have 1 RB charge, CS is less than 3 seconds away, and raging blow will not expire in the next 3 seconds.)
CS

Ok, so leading into this particular CS, we have 1 charge of raging blow, and bloodthirst is available to use.

What happens if colossus smash crits? Now you have 2 charges of RB, but without the line that you all are bitching about, simcraft will use bloodthirst anyway, and if bloodthirst crits then you just wasted a charge of RB.

It makes more sense to use RB and delay BT 1 GCD, as that is only giving up 1/3 of a Bloodthirst, or only 1/5 of a raging blow.

If you have a problem with what simcraft is doing, it's not due to the line that I put in, it's due to the raging blow line that I haven't touched at all. Simcraft has been delaying using RB all expansion in this scenario, I only optimized it so it wouldn't wasted a RB charge.

[Darkfriend]

Allright.

I'm gonna walk you guys through this slowly, since you all are just being insulting now. I deleted the lines that aren't relevant, and I apologize if this seems insulting, but I feel like you all are missing a very basic part of this.

actions+=/raging_blow,if=buff.raging_blow.stack=2&debuff.colossus_smash.up&target.health.pct>=20
# If colossus smash is on a non-execute range target, and we have 2 stacks of raging blow, this line will trigger.

actions+=/bloodthirst,if=!(target.health.pct<20&debuff.colossus_smash.up&rage>=30)
# If CS is up, the target is in execute range and we have less than 30 rage, this line triggers.

actions+=/wait,sec=cooldown.bloodthirst.remains,if=!(target.health.pct<20&debuff.colossus_smash.up&r age>=30)&cooldown.bloodthirst.remains<=1&cooldown.bloodthirst.remains
# If the cooldown on bloodthirst is less than 1 second, and we are not in execute range, this line tells simcraft to pause all other actions for the length of time left on bloodthirst's cooldown.

actions+=/colossus_smash
#Uses CS

actions+=/raging_blow,if=buff.raging_blow.stack=2|(buff.raging_blow.up&(debuff.colossus_smash.up|coo ldown.colossus_smash.remains>=3|(cooldown.bloodthirst.remains>=1&buff.raging_blow.remains< =3)))
#This line forces raging blow to be used if any of the following are true:
1: 2 stacks of RB
2: CS is up
3: CS cooldown is MORE THAN 3 seconds away
4: Cooldown on bloodthirst is more than 1 second away, and the buff on raging blow will expire in less than 3 seconds.

Notice that none of that line mentions to use raging blow with only one stack, unless that one stack will expire very soon or CS is more than 3 seconds away. This is important, and I think that's where you all are missing the point.

actions+=/wild_strike,if=buff.bloodsurge.react
#If it goes through the action list and none of the above lines toggle, then it will use your bloodsurge proc.

Now, put all of that together. Let's setup a scenario.

CS is exactly 3 seconds away

BT-Procs an RB charge.
(Open GCD, as we only have 1 RB charge, CS is less than 3 seconds away, and raging blow will not expire in the next 3 seconds.)
CS

Ok, so leading into this particular CS, we have 1 charge of raging blow, and bloodthirst is available to use.

What happens if colossus smash crits? Now you have 2 charges of RB, but without the line that you all are bitching about, simcraft will use bloodthirst anyway, and if bloodthirst crits then you just wasted a charge of RB.

It makes more sense to use RB and delay BT 1 GCD, as that is only giving up 1/3 of a Bloodthirst, or only 1/5 of a raging blow.

If you have a problem with what simcraft is doing, it's not due to the line that I put in, it's due to the raging blow line that I haven't touched at all. Simcraft has been delaying using RB all expansion in this scenario, I only optimized it so it wouldn't wasted a RB charge.

Is simcraft currently set up for using CS every 22.5 seconds instead of 21? This not only allows for better chance of a 3x RB 1x BT CS phase, but also allows BT to be hit prior to CS every time, instead of switching places with CS every other time, which requires either delaying BT by 1.5 seconds or not getting 3x RBs.