DI Ask Mr Robot get worse with their "upgrade"??

[Nemesis003]

I go to put my armory into AMR just to see if it still sucked... and its worse then before. It no joke wants me nearly 2% above hit cap and gemmed like a tard.


Does this only work for players in terrible gear? It seems the better your gear gets the worse it does.

[Tehstool]

They must've messed it up very badly when they were tweaking stuff for 5.2. For hunters everything is off. It appears that when you include the meta in your optimization it messes everything up.

[Zoopercat]

Nemesis, can you give me your character name and realm? Mr. Robot should not be putting you above the hit cap like that so I want to see what's going on. (I'm from Ask Mr. Robot)

[Nemesis003]

Nemesis, can you give me your character name and realm? Mr. Robot should not be putting you above the hit cap like that so I want to see what's going on. (I'm from Ask Mr. Robot)

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Eckoh/advanced

it had me way off and regemming to stuff other then pure agi. its just off in so many ways. On top of that the stat weights are a joke you have to fix them as well


it also seems to give something different every time i run it.

WoW reforge seems still be superior, i was just looking for something to skip editing all my upgraded gear every time.

---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 06:11 PM ----------

i just ran it again now it says not to change anything...

lol i ran it again now it wants me over both hit and expertise caps... it gives me a different "optimization" every time i run it.

[Deleted]

I more than once found that the calculations for hit and expertise were wrong, and I just tried to find a BiS set with crit being ranked over mastery and haste and I saw items with haste/mastery not being reforged. On top of that, with an item having mastery and crit the suggested reforge was mastery into haste even though the former was ranked higher. There's definitely something not working.

[Zoopercat]

Nemesis, thanks for the info. I looked you up on our site, and with 5.2 settings I see you at 7.5% hit. I also see several reforge suggestions, and that's because Mr. Robot is excited to put the new legendary gems in your helm. Here's that profile.

However, if I exclude that legendary meta, you only need to change a couple of reforges. Here's that profile.

As you can see, the reforges are dependent on all of your settings. He optimizes your gems, enchants AND reforges. So if he knows he can put that legendary meta in your helm (since it's a high enough iLevel), he'll move things around to get you a better score

I was going to check on your character in wowreforge to compare, but you have so much upgraded gear - I don't have time to manually set that all up in wowreforge right now If you are able to save a link and share it, I can compare it tonight though.

Tehstool - you said the legendary meta is messing things up. Can you elaborate? So far it seems to be working - of course once you equip it you'll want to change reforges. But I'm wondering what else you're seeing? I've only been able to test a limited number of characters for each class and spec, so having other people bang away on it is helpful.

edit: we're doing an update in an hour or so that will have the new trinket info GC posted today. We are also updating the legendary metas with the new info GC posted today as well. If you return to the site in an hour, you might see a few more changes. As we tweak settings, things will change throughout the week. We're trying out best to warn everyone about that - which is why we have that popup when you visit. Gotta love patches

---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 04:00 PM ----------

spiattalo - can you give me a character name and realm where this is happening? If you save the profile (blue save button), I can see all of the settings you are using as well. We'll take a look!

[Tehstool]

Nemesis, thanks for the info. I looked you up on our site, and with 5.2 settings I see you at 7.5% hit. I also see several reforge suggestions, and that's because Mr. Robot is excited to put the new legendary gems in your helm. Here's that profile.

However, if I exclude that legendary meta, you only need to change a couple of reforges. Here's that profile.

As you can see, the reforges are dependent on all of your settings. He optimizes your gems, enchants AND reforges. So if he knows he can put that legendary meta in your helm (since it's a high enough iLevel), he'll move things around to get you a better score

I was going to check on your character in wowreforge to compare, but you have so much upgraded gear - I don't have time to manually set that all up in wowreforge right now If you are able to save a link and share it, I can compare it tonight though.

Tehstool - you said the legendary meta is messing things up. Can you elaborate? So far it seems to be working - of course once you equip it you'll want to change reforges. But I'm wondering what else you're seeing? I've only been able to test a limited number of characters for each class and spec, so having other people bang away on it is helpful.

edit: we're doing an update in an hour or so that will have the new trinket info GC posted today. We are also updating the legendary metas with the new info GC posted today as well. If you return to the site in an hour, you might see a few more changes. As we tweak settings, things will change throughout the week. We're trying out best to warn everyone about that - which is why we have that popup when you visit. Gotta love patches

---------- Post added 2013-03-04 at 04:00 PM ----------

spiattalo - can you give me a character name and realm where this is happening? If you save the profile (blue save button), I can see all of the settings you are using as well. We'll take a look!

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/5...0-bed97958b9a2
http://i.imgur.com/y9M4gLH.png

I hit enable the legendary meta then it want's me to change all my gems. Then when I disable that option it fixes everything. That is what I'm seeing.

The new Real PPM change to the trinket should nerf all the Real PPM trinkets which isn't that good sadly.

[Deleted]

spiattalo - can you give me a character name and realm where this is happening? If you save the profile (blue save button), I can see all of the settings you are using as well. We'll take a look!

It's Birba from EU-Grim Batol: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/4...4-04a2d2e1e4fa

[Zoopercat]

Spiattalo - thanks for that link.

So to test these, I lock everything in, then change only the reforges you suspect are wrong. I then compare the scores (in the green bar) to see which one scores better. For this test case, I reforged the legs and waist items.

* If I reforge Haste (lowest ranking stat) to Crit (see profile), the score goes down. It only goes down by 10 points, but Mr. Robot is all about MATHZ! That's because Haste affects the RealPPM on the trinkets.
* If I reforge Mastery into Crit (view profile), the score actually goes up. We'll use this test case to fine-tune the optimizer with all of our 5.2 changes. So thank you for posting.

Scores:
Mr. Robot's original BiS setup with your settings: 200365
Haste > Crit reforges on legs & waist: 200355
Mastery > Crit reforges on legs & waist: 200487 (a difference of 0.06%). We aim to get everyone to 99.9% of the best score, which this falls into. But, we love to get these examples to keep refining the algorithms TY for posting.


Tehstool: It's normal for things to move around with such a big difference in a gem (like the sha-touched weapon gems too). However, we're doing an update shortly with the new meta gem information GC posted today. I'll check out your case more specifically after that update to see what's going on then.

[Asrialol]

So does this mean Mr Robot is actually useful for hunters, or do people still prefer WoWReforge and such?

WoWReforge not having upgrades automatically fixed is mildly annoying, but not such a big deal. I see AskMrRobot has changed a lot since the last time I was there.. Looks a lot better now at least!

[Zoopercat]

Asrialol, thanks for the compliments We're always improving the site (literally). Three of us quit our day jobs to take a risk on building AskMrRobot. I mean, we already worked in silicon valley, the land of risk, so it wasn't TOO big of a leap. But that's how we able to keep improving and be ready for patches - it's our day jobs And then we play games all night.

I'd argue that Mr. Robot is useful for all classes - you can edit the stat weights to be anything you want. And from there, all optimizations, BiS lists, etc are calculated. It's all math! We've actually worked quite a bit with the big hunter theorycrafters to make sure our stat weights are top-notch. But as always, if something looks off, or you disagree with something - let us know. There are a LOT of specs/classes, so there are people out there who know the nuances better than we do. But Mr. Robot is still the king at teh mathz.

[Tyler-Stormrage]

I'd argue that Mr. Robot is useful for all classes - you can edit the stat weights to be anything you want.

Ah, and here inlies the problem. I'm a fury warrior and an enhancement shaman... And in both cases, i have to do a simulationcraft run BEFORE setting foot on AMR to use it effectively. For example, as a fury warrior, crit is worth more than strength. The sim i ran today said that it was worth aproximately 1.8x as much as it, actually. But ask mr robot had strength listed as more important of a stat then strength. The similar things happen with my enhance. I have to run the sim to get the values, especially for mastery and haste.

[Deleted]

Spiattalo - thanks for that link.

So to test these, I lock everything in, then change only the reforges you suspect are wrong. I then compare the scores (in the green bar) to see which one scores better. For this test case, I reforged the legs and waist items.

* If I reforge Haste (lowest ranking stat) to Crit (see profile), the score goes down. It only goes down by 10 points, but Mr. Robot is all about MATHZ! That's because Haste affects the RealPPM on the trinkets.
* If I reforge Mastery into Crit (view profile), the score actually goes up. We'll use this test case to fine-tune the optimizer with all of our 5.2 changes. So thank you for posting.

Scores:
Mr. Robot's original BiS setup with your settings: 200365
Haste > Crit reforges on legs & waist: 200355
Mastery > Crit reforges on legs & waist: 200487 (a difference of 0.06%). We aim to get everyone to 99.9% of the best score, which this falls into. But, we love to get these examples to keep refining the algorithms TY for posting.

So it's basically because haste gets more value when you equip RPPM trinkets and the set bonus. I suggest you put a note somewhere to remind that. And I also suggest you upgrade the stat values and maybe even add the option to save them - it's annoying to have to change them every now and then.
Thanks for your replies, keep up the good work.

[Zoopercat]

Spiattalo - I have a blog post on trinkets, but never stated how Haste interacts with realppm. I will update that post today, thanks for the idea

We do let you save stat weights. If you click the blue save button when setting up your character, it will save it to a profile. Then you can load that profile from any computer, smartphone, etc (as long as you are logged in), and you can pick up where you left off. All of your stat weights and settings will be there. Note, when you load that profile, you'll want to switch to the saved profiles tab on the character loading screen (normally you are presented with a realm/character name box - switch over to saved profiles).

Hope that helps

[Xiphias]

Ah, and here inlies the problem. I'm a fury warrior and an enhancement shaman... And in both cases, i have to do a simulationcraft run BEFORE setting foot on AMR to use it effectively. For example, as a fury warrior, crit is worth more than strength. The sim i ran today said that it was worth aproximately 1.8x as much as it, actually. But ask mr robot had strength listed as more important of a stat then strength. The similar things happen with my enhance. I have to run the sim to get the values, especially for mastery and haste.

I don't mean to imply this is a certainty, but it is also possibly you are using poor settings in your SimulationCraft which might be giving you suboptimal stat weights. I don't know of any class or spec that values a secondary stat as more important than a primary stat, except possibly Hit or Expertise, since usually you can get 2 secondary stat points at the cost of 1 primary stat point when you're gemming, and even then most classes/specs do prefer to just gem for their primary stat. On top of that, however, reforging doesn't involve primary stats at all really (except for determining how much Hit/Expertise or whatnot you should be gemming for) so it's just the weights of Hit/Expertise and Haste/Mastery/Crit that really matter as far as the majority of AskMrRobot's calculations... no?