Why do we have to wait over a month for the whole LFR to unlock?

[hyphnos]

4 weeks sounds like logical middleground then.

Why should there be "middle ground". LFR is the lowest level of raid difficulty and is being released AFTER the medium mode?

There is no logic to it beyond appeasing normal mode raiders who think that some arbitrary gap release gives them a "chance" to see the content first.

Realistically, as everyone fully expects normal to be beaten in week 1 - every raider has a "chance" to see it before LFR goes live and therefore this delay is only really giving that "chance" to a larger group of people arbitrarily chosen at random who happen to be the players who can beat it in 4-6 weeks rather than one.

It's random and has no coherent logic and therefore shouldn't be subject to "middle ground".

[Tehstool]

So you complain when they release it 1 month and 11 days after the patch, but you don't complain when they release all of the 5.0 LFRs in 1 month and 18 days?

What is wrong with you people?

[hyphnos]

Devs answered this already and I think the answer is reasonable.

A lot of raiding guilds will be killing normal mode Lei Shen in the next 3-4 weeks. They don't want normal mode progression to feel diminished due to LFR progression. The first time your guild kills Lei Shen it should be somewhat epic. It shouldn't be something you've already done multiple times before on LFR.

It's not an experience they can guarantee for everyone but it is something they can do for the vast majority of the raiding community.

Really? Post the wowprogress/guildox statistics when LFR fully opens and come back and tell us how the "vast majority" of the raiding community has cleared ToT.

The "vast majority" of raiders haven't finished 5.0 raids. The epicness comes from beating something that you feel presses your limits, not because it's the first time you've seen it and it's not right to hold back the LARGER population who do LFR as their end game so a very small number of people feel better.

[Deleted]

Why should there be "middle ground". LFR is the lowest level of raid difficulty and is being released AFTER the medium mode?

There is no logic to it beyond appeasing normal mode raiders who think that some arbitrary gap release gives them a "chance" to see the content first.

Realistically, as everyone fully expects normal to be beaten in week 1 - every raider has a "chance" to see it before LFR goes live and therefore this delay is only really giving that "chance" to a larger group of people arbitrarily chosen at random who happen to be the players who can beat it in 4-6 weeks rather than one.

It's random and has no coherent logic and therefore shouldn't be subject to "middle ground".

Why should there be middleground if some people think 2 is too short and 6 is too long? Because then 4 is just right. Have you learned nothing from Goldilocks?

[spectrefax]

If they have a hardon for keeping the fights "epic" they should remove current content raiding from LFR completely.

[Moshots]

Why should there be "middle ground". LFR is the lowest level of raid difficulty and is being released AFTER the medium mode?

There is no logic to it beyond appeasing normal mode raiders who think that some arbitrary gap release gives them a "chance" to see the content first.

Realistically, as everyone fully expects normal to be beaten in week 1 - every raider has a "chance" to see it before LFR goes live and therefore this delay is only really giving that "chance" to a larger group of people arbitrarily chosen at random who happen to be the players who can beat it in 4-6 weeks rather than one.

It's random and has no coherent logic and therefore shouldn't be subject to "middle ground".

QQ more we need to go back to a time when there was no LFR. so all these LFR kids had to pug raids and wait 2 tiers later to do content. Since they can't appreciate that Blizz is already bib feeding them content and they wanna complain about being bib fed content fine then take it away from them like the old days and see how much they would complain about having to wait a few weeks then. These entitled LFR heroes make me sick

[This post has been infracted for trolling.]

[Jaylock]

If they have a hardon for keeping the fights "epic" they should remove current content raiding from LFR completely.

I agree with this, and they should only allow previous tier LFR to be available in current tier.

[Otimus]

This is a serious post?

Why did they make raids for 8 years prior then?

Who knows? It's not like a large portion of the community ever set foot in them, and Blizzard seemingly is a slow learner :x

Designing almost all of your post-game/post expansion launch content around 5% of the player base is stupid, was stupid, and will continue to be stupid in the forseeable future, and can't logically, in any facet or form, be explained in a way that can be made sense of.

[Deleted]

I agree with this, and they should only allow previous tier LFR to be available in current tier.

Congratulations, you just lost 3 million subs.

[Moshots]

Who knows? It's not like a large portion of the community ever set foot in them, and Blizzard seemingly is a slow learner :x

Designing almost all of your post-game/post expansion launch content around 5% of the player base is stupid, was stupid, and will continue to be stupid in the forseeable future, and can't logically, in any facet or form, be explained in a way that can be made sense of.

You call LFR endgame content? Endgame content is supposed to be a challenge. Not something everyone even the Downies can 1 shot it weekly. Some Guilds that raid 8 hours a week are clearing almost full heroic modes. No one can say they can't find a 4-5 hour a week guild to clear normal modes..

---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 08:05 PM ----------

Congratulations, you just lost 3 million subs.

last I checked wow had 10 mil subs before Looking for Retards mode.

[Otimus]

You call LFR endgame content? Endgame content is supposed to be a challenge. Not something everyone even the Downies can 1 shot it weekly.



---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 08:05 PM ----------



last I checked wow had 10 mil subs before Looking for Retards mode.

"You call LFR endgame content? Endgame content is supposed to be a challenge. Not something everyone even the Downies can 1 shot it weekly."

....what does that even have to do with anything? That's completely dodging what I said to make some sort of statement.

Ah. That last statement explains why you said that. I think we can get the kind of person you are right from that. Uh huh.

[ro9ue]

Still doesnt anwser my question though. Why is it okay for LFR raiders to be locked out of content but not high elite raiders?

It's okay because the elite raiders are about 1% of the population so if they burn through content and quit in a month anyway, they don't care. The 99% rest of the population they want to milk $15 extra from all of them.

[hyphnos]

Why should there be middleground if some people think 2 is too short and 6 is too long? Because then 4 is just right. Have you learned nothing from Goldilocks?

Because there is no logical reason behind it being delayed an hour longer than normal mode. Accepting a "middle ground" that is in the middle of two arbitrarily chosen delays when no delay is perfectly reasonable isn't middle ground - it's conceding there should be a delay when there's no reason for it and no matter what delay you do chose, it's just randomly selecting a few guilds to give a bit more time to finish normal under the insane notion that LFR's mere existence takes something away from them. It doesn't and even if it did, most of them still won't have ToT finished when LFR does open and "most of them" is still far far fewer people than do LFR.

In short: accepting a middle ground on the timing of the delay pre-supposes that the delay is justified and valid, which it is not.

[Deleted]

You call LFR endgame content? Endgame content is supposed to be a challenge. Not something everyone even the Downies can 1 shot it weekly. Some Guilds that raid 8 hours a week are clearing almost full heroic modes. No one can say they can't find a 4-5 hour a week guild to clear normal modes..

---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 08:05 PM ----------



last I checked wow had 10 mil subs before Looking for Retards mode.

And it had 12 million at the start of Cataclysm. Then they dropped. One reason Blizzard gave for that was, that people felt the content was too hard and unaccessible.

---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 09:17 PM ----------

Because there is no logical reason behind it being delayed an hour longer than normal mode. Accepting a "middle ground" that is in the middle of two arbitrarily chosen delays when no delay is perfectly reasonable isn't middle ground - it's conceding there should be a delay when there's no reason for it and no matter what delay you do chose, it's just randomly selecting a few guilds to give a bit more time to finish normal under the insane notion that LFR's mere existence takes something away from them. It doesn't and even if it did, most of them still won't have ToT finished when LFR does open and "most of them" is still far far fewer people than do LFR.

In short: accepting a middle ground on the timing of the delay pre-supposes that the delay is justified and valid, which it is not.

They are not arbitrarily chosen.

[Otimus]

And it had 12 million at the start of Cataclysm. Then they dropped. One reason Blizzard gave for that was, that people felt the content was too hard and unaccessible.

I think the assumed difficulty is just one part of the picture of what went wrong with Cataclysm. I think the bigger problem was, if you didn't raid, and you didn't do organized PVP, at the end of Cata, if you fell into the aformentioned camp, you essentially were left with NOTHING to do, until they put in LFR.

The lack of things to do probably caused sub bleeds more than anything. I think they've fixed that problem up in MoP right good, though.

[Prokne]

So you complain when they release it 1 month and 11 days after the patch, but you don't complain when they release all of the 5.0 LFRs in 1 month and 18 days?

What is wrong with you people?

The normal raids in 5.0 were gated also. All of the LFRs were open within a month of normal being available. I think for a raid that is released all at once, the wings of the lfr should be delayed no more than a week apart. Also the first wing should be available the first week. LFR people are ok with not having everything right now but 6 weeks is too long especially since the whole reason for gating it is to benefit people who dont run it.

[hyphnos]

And it had 12 million at the start of Cataclysm. Then they dropped. One reason Blizzard gave for that was, that people felt the content was too hard and unaccessible.

---------- Post added 2013-03-05 at 09:17 PM ----------



They are not arbitrarily chosen.

Then on what basis are these dates chosen?

Because someone at Blizzard knows that when X% of progression guilds have cleared ToT it will be "okay" for LFR to open? What is that magical %?

Given the actual reality of 5.0 progression, we know with reasonable certainty that a large per centage of normal mode raiders STILL won't have ToT beaten before LFR be it 2 weeks, 4 weeks or 4 months from now.

So how is it not arbitrary to pick a length of time when an unknown number of active normal mode raiders will be finished with ToT to open LFR? Why is the 1 week that it will take for the content to be beaten not enough of a chance to beat ToT? 2 week is better? On what grounds? 6 weeks even better? Why?

You say its not arbitrary when it clearly is. There is no stated logic beyond not "ruining" ToT for normal mode raiders and yet the dates are set in stone so that whether 5% or 100% of normal guilds have beaten ToT LFR will open.

It's very much arbitrary based on Blizzard's stated goal in delaying it. They don't have a definite goal in mind, it's undefined and nebulous and so are the delays.

If Blizzard can change the delay from 2 weeks to 4 weeks to 6 weeks and not undermine it's stated reason, then the delay dates are the classic definition of arbitrary and no one here is saying that a delay longer than a week will guarantee particular result other than making LFR players wait while some raiders beat ToT but not others.

[Tehstool]

The normal raids in 5.0 were gated also. All of the LFRs were open within a month of normal being available. I think for a raid that is released all at once, the wings of the lfr should be delayed no more than a week apart. Also the first wing should be available the first week. LFR people are ok with not having everything right now but 6 weeks is too long especially since the whole reason for gating it is to benefit people who dont run it.

That doesn't matter at all. It's essentially the same thing. If they just do LFR why would they care? Blizzard can't impress everyone. If they decide to release it earlier then people will complain.

[rinea]

You call LFR endgame content? Endgame content is supposed to be a challenge. Not something everyone even the Downies can 1 shot it weekly. Some Guilds that raid 8 hours a week are clearing almost full heroic modes. No one can say they can't find a 4-5 hour a week guild to clear normal modes.

LFR is end-game content. Considered personal character progression, and not full-on raiding progression. However, there's a lot that falls under, "Elder gaming," or end-game in other words.

[Moozhe]

QQ more we need to go back to a time when there was no LFR. so all these LFR kids had to pug raids and wait 2 tiers later to do content. Since they can't appreciate that Blizz is already bib feeding them content and they wanna complain about being bib fed content fine then take it away from them like the old days and see how much they would complain about having to wait a few weeks then. These entitled LFR heroes make me sick

Give a man an inch and he'll take a mile.