[Balance] Inc + NV still better on patchwerk?

[land]

Is anyone also seeing that INC + NV is still ahead in dps? Tested combinations for an hour on dummies and inc+nv was still usually higher than others with HoTW not too behind... Also tested SotF and still did shitty deeps (maybe I'd need to go mastery for that?) and Treants wasn't actually too bad except that felt a bit clunky...

What have you guys seen/checked so far?

[Deleted]

Im seeing the same, however Standing still and tunneling a dummie never = same in raids so Im still open to try first bosses with HOTW / Inc spec.

I cant comment on Sotf yet, I havent tried reforgeing / gemming for it, but i would have thought it would be 5273 haste > Mastery > crit...

[huth]

Given that there have not been any actual Patchwerk fights since Patchwerk(there's always some other mechanic), who cares? What you can do to a training dummy is irrelevant.

[land]

Given that there have not been any actual Patchwerk fights since Patchwerk(there's always some other mechanic), who cares? What you can do to a training dummy is irrelevant.

So many fights in 5.0 and 5.1 where all I do is stand in place and nuke boss or some occasional adds (dogs, feng, garajal, empress, protectors, etc)...

---------- Post added 2013-03-06 at 02:02 PM ----------

Im seeing the same, however Standing still and tunneling a dummie never = same in raids so Im still open to try first bosses with HOTW / Inc spec.

I cant comment on Sotf yet, I havent tried reforgeing / gemming for it, but i would have thought it would be 5273 haste > Mastery > crit...

Yeah, HotW was pretty close on a lot of my runs, so pretty sure it will work good for adds, movement, etc... Prob use inc for more standstill or damage buffed phases (if I can properly time it).

Curious if anyone can actually see some good numbers using treants, really like being a 1 min cd - would align well with my eng gloves enchant.

[huth]

So many fights in 5.0 and 5.1 where all I do is stand in place and nuke boss or some occasional adds (dogs, feng, garajal, empress, protectors, etc)...

Every single one you named has at least 1 mechanic that can randomly force you to move around. Have you even done anything beyond LFR?

[Keiyra]

So many fights in 5.0 and 5.1 where all I do is stand in place and nuke boss or some occasional adds (dogs, feng, garajal, empress, protectors, etc)...

If you never moved on dogs, have fun dying to puddle/trap/chain
If you never moved on feng, have fun dying to wildfire and velocity.
If you never moved on empress, enjoy the fear the cone and/or fearing the raid with visions.
etc.

There is a vast difference between not having to move much/often, and not having to move at all. Lets keep the bs hyperbole to a minimum please. Training dummies are there to practice your rotation, not to give useful estimates of dps performance when raiding.

[Aphie]

I'm seeing more steady dps from using hotw over NV, so I'm going to continue to use Inc/HotW until I need to change HotW for NV to help with raid healing for certain fights if needed.

[Liax]

It varies for me. I used HOTW on the first two bosses, but on the third I used NV. Just feels good tbh with the uptime on NV and the massive amounts of multidotting.

[land]

Omg so much hatred against my dummies lol. Ok, fine I'll stop here or I feel like I'll be burned at the stake for saying such heresy. Jokes a part, would appreciate though if more of you guys could give us some insights of whats working better for different scenarios (i.e. little movement, heavy movement, single tar, multi tar, etc)...

Edit: nvm, found a good discussion about this here http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...using-tomorrow

---------- Post added 2013-03-07 at 12:11 PM ----------

If you never moved on dogs, have fun dying to puddle/trap/chain
If you never moved on feng, have fun dying to wildfire and velocity.
If you never moved on empress, enjoy the fear the cone and/or fearing the raid with visions.
etc.

There is a vast difference between not having to move much/often, and not having to move at all. Lets keep the bs hyperbole to a minimum please. Training dummies are there to practice your rotation, not to give useful estimates of dps performance when raiding.

- HM Dogs? Depending on the comb (i.e. no chains) there was very little movement since I wasn't the one painting. Once in a while would have to move from blue trap, it wasn't a heavy moment fight for me at all.
- HM Feng? Again, very little movement except to that velocity thing, which we only get 2 in the entire damn fight in heroic.
- Empress? Stand in the middle, spread a bit, move a bit IF i ever get the debuff. Move from cone? yeah, as if we don't have instants like dots and shit that we cant do while doing a little bit of moving.

Now, fine, I'll give you that not moving at all is different than moving a little big, but does that mean that I shouldn't check the dummies for whats hitting harder in an ideal scenario and then adapt depending on the fight? whats the prob with that?

[huth]

It's not a patchwerk fight if you do anything except nuke the boss. Ultraxion was one of the closest in a long time and even he had a mechanic that was really bad for our DPS.

The problem is that ideal scenarios can easily make a tactic viable that is impossible to pull of in a real scenario. DPS is at least a little chaotic in the mathematical sense of the word.

[Stommped]

It's not a patchwerk fight if you do anything except nuke the boss. Ultraxion was one of the closest in a long time and even he had a mechanic that was really bad for our DPS.

The problem is that ideal scenarios can easily make a tactic viable that is impossible to pull of in a real scenario. DPS is at least a little chaotic in the mathematical sense of the word.

The thing is you don't need a pure Patchwerk fight to get the full benefit from Inc/NV. Patchwerk was literally no movement for the entirety of the fight. In order to get the full benefit from Inc/NV you only need no movment for 30 seconds 2 or 3 times during a fight. Or at least only minimal movement required where you can use a SS proc and lose no DPS.

[mikoslav]

The thing is you don't need a pure Patchwerk fight to get the full benefit from Inc/NV. Patchwerk was literally no movement for the entirety of the fight. In order to get the full benefit from Inc/NV you only need no movment for 30 seconds 2 or 3 times during a fight. Or at least only minimal movement required where you can use a SS proc and lose no DPS.

Actually you dont have to stand still during Inc/NV when you have more targets to dot with MF, for example if you have 4-5 targets coming, like trolls in horridon, you can run multi dotting, then SSing then hit CA and multi dot again while SSIng

[Slippykins]

For a single-target, no damage mod fight, HotW should be ahead of NV by 46% in terms of L90 talent DPS contribution. In terms of actual DPS numbers, HotW is ahead by around 3k DPS on a Patchwerk fight.

[Deleted]

The other reason people dont like the new NV is due to it being problematic to use on CD and keep lined up with Inc.

If there is a part of the fight which needs burst or extra healing and so you wait on nv, then it wont be lined up with inc on next use, which means waiting for inc and it throws your dps.

[Zlay3r]

For a single-target, no damage mod fight, HotW should be ahead of NV by 46% in terms of L90 talent DPS contribution. In terms of actual DPS numbers, HotW is ahead by around 3k DPS on a Patchwerk fight.

Gemming haste/crit or int?

[Slippykins]

Gemming haste/crit or int?

Red sockets: int/crit, yellow sockets: full crit, blue sockets: crit/spirit.

[Zlay3r]

Red sockets: int/crit, yellow sockets: full crit, blue sockets: crit/spirit.

At what point do you think gemming full int will be ahead of full crit?
red int, yellow int/crit, blue int/spi

[Slippykins]

At what point do you think gemming full int will be ahead of full crit?
red int, yellow int/crit, blue int/spi

Not likely this tier, as 2x crit > int for both the normal and heroic BiS sets. Possibly next tier, if crit doesn't continue to be worth more compared to int.