5.2 Is a big disappointment

[Crashdummy]

I somehow doubt you, or anyone else, would be appeased by the addition of one or more dungeons that dropped iLvl460 gear. Blizzard would not make it higher than the existing dungeons because they want people using LFR, and VPs to a lesser extent, as the catch-up mechanic. They decided that the gear resets via dungeons that were prevalent in Cata and Wrath were not healthy for the game, as they provided too quick a method to bypass prior existing content. LFR now fills that role in a much better fashion, and further allows Blizzard to adjust the speed in which characters gear up by changing drop rate percentages. They also now have more efficient ways to communicate store/lore related information to those players that are interested, such as scenarios for example.

So really does not make sense to spend the time and other resources necessary to add a dungeon that serves no other purpose than an additional instance that can pop in the LFD tool.

---------- Post added 2013-03-07 at 10:53 AM ----------



No reason to camp them. You are limited to one per week from rares, though you can acquire them from other sources on the island.

Blizzard did fail hard at communicating that limit prior to the patch going live though.

I dont think LFR is a better cahcth up mechanic. The combination of RNG and weekly lockouts is one of the worsts combinations you can have to be used as a catch uop mechanic and WILL starve several people of the chance to catch up (because that's the nature of RNG, and its not a matter of IF it will starve, its a certain fact that when you have hundreds of thousands of people trying to catch up, SOME of them will be starved by RNG).

About the more efficient ways to communicate lore, i dont think so.

MoP lore and storytelling sucks in comparison to TBC and WotLK ones, and those expansions did not need this crappy daily system.

About not making sense to develop the feature that has been the core of your games for years, i dont know what to tell you. Dungeons and Raids are the only things that cant be left out in any MMORPG in my opinion.

You can have a proper MMORPG without dailies, i dont think you can have a proper MMORPG without dungeons and raids.

So you see, its not just another feature, its the core of WoW, its what made WoW what it is today, and its being left out for a system that leaves a very big part of the players without anything to do.

WoW doesnt exist anymore, MoP is the first expansion of World of Dailycraft.

[DeadmanWalking]

I dont think LFR is a better cahcth up mechanic. The combination of RNG and weekly lockouts is one of the worsts combinations you can have to be used as a catch uop mechanic and WILL starve several people of the chance to catch up (because that's the nature of RNG, and its not a matter of IF it will starve, its a certain fact that when you have hundreds of thousands of people trying to catch up, SOME of them will be starved by RNG).

About the more efficient ways to communicate lore, i dont think so.

MoP lore and storytelling sucks in comparison to TBC and WotLK ones, and those expansions did not need this crappy daily system.

About not making sense to develop the feature that has been the core of your games for years, i dont know what to tell you. Dungeons and Raids are the only things that cant be left out in any MMORPG in my opinion.

You can have a proper MMORPG without dailies, i dont think you can have a proper MMORPG without dungeons and raids.

So you see, its not just another feature, its the core of WoW, its what made WoW what it is today, and its being left out for a system that leaves a very big part of the players without anything to do.

WoW doesnt exist anymore, MoP is the first expansion of World of Dailycraft.

They have dungeons, they just didnt add new dungeons because new ones are not needed since all the gear can be found in the previous ones. LFR is not on a weekly lock out, you can go back in and use a coin to continue to get gear and the coins now drop like rain. In 2 days I pulled down 12 coins, the cap is 20. So that means I could run TOES 3 times for a potential of 16 drop chances at increased rate drop. I can also keep getting more coins all week long. Garalon spawns faster and sha/garalon are on faction tap so with just 12 coins you have a shot at 32 loot drops a week, and as I said that was 12 coins in 2 days so I could potentially get and use 40+ coins a week for 60 potential drop chances.

[wow2011]

No, its you the one that doesnt understand.

What would accomplish? GIVE CONTENT FOR THOSE OF US THAT LIKE RUNNING THEM.

Yes, i would add dugneons that many people dont need, just like many people dont need items from LFR and Blizzard launched it anyway. Why is that a problem?

Why is it ok to add a huge ton of dailies that many people wont ever do 2 months after you had launched another bacth of daileis but its not ok to launch some dungeons when its over 6 months that you havent launched any?

If there are enough dungeons, then there is an excess of daileis (because there are tons more dailise than dungeons) yet Blizzard developed more.

Addins more dungeons serves the same purpose than adding more dailies, give content for those that like doing them.

The difference is that we just got dailies 2-3 months ago, and we had no dungeons in 6 months (time where we ALSO got dailies), so it would be much more fair to give us dungeons for those os us that like it instead of more dailies which we are sick of them.


BTW, i got 0 coins in 2 days, guess it depends a huge chunk on RNG, which is a bad point to make really, since no one is discussing that anyway.

The value of heroics and dailies are different. In the end, each type of content has its own lifetime and it is easier to progress story and lore through dailies than through heroic dungeons. Afterall, heroic dungeons are fairly stagnant while dailies can be phased and advanced easily.

I personally think dailies (when done properly) is more rewarding than heroics. The initial 5.0 dailies are pretty bland but the 5.1/5.2 dailies are pretty well done. 5.1/5.2 dailies both move the story forward and it gives us an awesome chance for world PvP. The large landscape with enemies and other people running around is a sorely missed aspect of MMO in wow. Not to mention there are rares to farm and elites to test your skill with. A lot of people go together and quest for various reason so it is easy to find daily group to meet new people and make friends.

Heroics on the other hand is a thing you do once and forget. The only reason to revisit heroics is if you need gears directly or VP for more upgrades. Not to mention it is very difficult to design heroics that has proper ilvl so more people will do them. If the new heroics drop ilvl 463 then only new 90s will do it. If the new heroics drop ilvl 476 like the dailies then only a small amount of people will do it. If the new heroics drop ilvl 489 then it invalidates 5.0 raids.

If you want the new heroics for gears, you can always revisit 5.0 bosses that you couldn't kill since they are nerfed by 10%.

If you want the new heroics for fun, then go ahead and treat the new dailies hub as huge heroic dungeons. I don't see a big difference between heroics and dailies if you aren't doing them for gears. Just think of the hubs as gigantic heroic dungeon where hundreds of people can join/leave whenever they want.

In the mean time, if you have any idea on how to make heroic dungeons less of a gear/vp pinata and more fun to repeat, definitely post your ideas on forums so Blizzard can make changes and all of us can benefit.

[Osmeric]

I think you're not going to see many people playing catchup to get into normal (or heroic) raiding. Catchup will be limited to people going just into LFR.

This is one of the reasons I expect normal raid participation to decline dramatically for the rest of the expansion.

As for LFR-only, I do have to wonder how that's going to work for the final raid. Without the intent to go into normal modes -- and they are tuned out of reach of most players -- will people do the last LFR just once, then stop? There's no reason to spend months gearing up there.

[Crashdummy]

The value of heroics and dailies are different. In the end, each type of content has its own lifetime and it is easier to progress story and lore through dailies than through heroic dungeons. Afterall, heroic dungeons are fairly stagnant while dailies can be phased and advanced easily.

I personally think dailies (when done properly) is more rewarding than heroics. The initial 5.0 dailies are pretty bland but the 5.1/5.2 dailies are pretty well done. 5.1/5.2 dailies both move the story forward and it gives us an awesome chance for world PvP. The large landscape with enemies and other people running around is a sorely missed aspect of MMO in wow. Not to mention there are rares to farm and elites to test your skill with. A lot of people go together and quest for various reason so it is easy to find daily group to meet new people and make friends.

Heroics on the other hand is a thing you do once and forget. The only reason to revisit heroics is if you need gears directly or VP for more upgrades. Not to mention it is very difficult to design heroics that has proper ilvl so more people will do them. If the new heroics drop ilvl 463 then only new 90s will do it. If the new heroics drop ilvl 476 like the dailies then only a small amount of people will do it. If the new heroics drop ilvl 489 then it invalidates 5.0 raids.

If you want the new heroics for gears, you can always revisit 5.0 bosses that you couldn't kill since they are nerfed by 10%.

If you want the new heroics for fun, then go ahead and treat the new dailies hub as huge heroic dungeons. I don't see a big difference between heroics and dailies if you aren't doing them for gears. Just think of the hubs as gigantic heroic dungeon where hundreds of people can join/leave whenever they want.

In the mean time, if you have any idea on how to make heroic dungeons less of a gear/vp pinata and more fun to repeat, definitely post your ideas on forums so Blizzard can make changes and all of us can benefit.

I'm sorry if you dont see the difference between dailies and heroics. I do, and i completely despise dailies (5.0, 5.1 and probably 5.2 although i havent done them enough yet to despise them).

I dont consider 5.1 dailies fun in any way.

I do have tons of fun in Heroic. And its ok that we have different tastes, i am ok with Blizzard giving dailies so you can have fun. I am NOT ok with Blizard not developing the content I LIKE and instead pushes out dailies as if they were mcdonald's burgers.

A weekly lockout raid doesnt replace heroics.

I agree that the value of heroics and dailies is different. To me, one heroic is worth over 200 dailies. That's the beauty of life, different people like different things. The problem comes when Blizzard stops developing content for those of us that like heroics, even when dungeons (not dailies) made WoW be what it is.

---------- Post added 2013-03-07 at 04:18 PM ----------

I think you're not going to see many people playing catchup to get into normal (or heroic) raiding. Catchup will be limited to people going just into LFR.

This is one of the reasons I expect normal raid participation to decline dramatically for the rest of the expansion.

As for LFR-only, I do have to wonder how that's going to work for the final raid. Without the intent to go into normal modes -- and they are tuned out of reach of most players -- will people do the last LFR just once, then stop? There's no reason to spend months gearing up there.

Normal raid participation already declined dramatically. 62k guilds killed Morchok Normal while it was current. 40k killed Stone Guard Normal. This will only go down.

[Leonard McCoy]

I think you're not going to see many people playing catchup to get into normal (or heroic) raiding. Catchup will be limited to people going just into LFR.

This is one of the reasons I expect normal raid participation to decline dramatically for the rest of the expansion.

As for LFR-only, I do have to wonder how that's going to work for the final raid. Without the intent to go into normal modes -- and they are tuned out of reach of most players -- will people do the last LFR just once, then stop? There's no reason to spend months gearing up there.

Maybe I misunderstood this but what it sounds like is things are so slow that people just aren't prepared for normal raids and will be shoved into lfr?

I always kinda figured LFR would drain the player pool because it's provides access to a path of progression for players that is perhaps not as strict or regimented as a normal raid guild. It's certainly alot more flexbile. I just didn't think it was that bad.

---------- Post added 2013-03-07 at 07:22 PM ----------

You obviously dont understand that adding in new dungeons was problematic in the last few expansions.

Actually we do I think. I just disagree it was a problem. Who cares about old content? I much prefer the model that is loaded with NEW progression every patch not going back to do old shit. This half assed attempt at tiered raiding is an abortion.

[FloridaElement]

Its been said but i will reiterate , LFR is delayed a week on purpose. and im all for this. If you want to raid so badly get in there and go for it man! Also i dont mind the dailys although i do agree that more valor would be awesome. More of a good thing is always good in general though, so i suppose thats a redundant statement.

[Mister J]

It's new content.

New content will inevitably result in Dailies.

Are the Dailies as big of a grind as they were in 5.0? No. But Dailies will always exist, just maybe not as much, seeing at Blizzard recognizes the big 'MISTS OF DAILYCRAFT QQ' complaint that everyone makes.


If you don't like doing a few dailies a day, and progressing through a story then you have the glorious and most self-controlled option of NOT DOING IT.

Go fight Elite pets, or level a Warlock, or look for Mantid Artifacts. Or go kill Lei Shen.

If none of these apply to you, you may be SOL.

[A Dark Knight]

Sucks do be you my friend.

[Deleted]

Unsubbed since a month after release, wanted to give MoP a shot after the huge disappointment that was Cata, oh well.

The first huge "content" patch of MoP is one more raid, a new scenario (LFR) and a hundred more dailies.. yeah.. no.

Not even one 5man dungeon? Jesus.

Yeah that's all we got this patch .

[Osmeric]

Maybe I misunderstood this but what it sounds like is things are so slow that people just aren't prepared for normal raids and will be shoved into lfr?

That's right. There will be few new raiders getting into normal mode raids for the rest of the expansion. Couple that with people who will be draining out of normal (read: most of the guilds that failed to clear T14 Normal when it was current, which is most of the ones that had at least one boss down there), and normal mode raid participation is set to decline dramatically for the rest of MoP.

[Leonard McCoy]

That's right. There will be few new raiders getting into normal mode raids for the rest of the expansion. Couple that with people who will be draining out of normal (read: most of the guilds that failed to clear T14 Normal when it was current, which is most of the ones that had at least one boss down there), and normal mode raid participation is set to decline dramatically for the rest of MoP.

It's to much attrition to the raid pool from to many sources. Burn out, lfr, the tuning of the initial MoP raids, and just the overall slow nature of the game just dwindles people away. Man Blizzard doesn't do anything half assed do they. When they say go slow, they really are going to enforce it. I know it's tired and already been said to death but will they ever learn to be moderate?

[Deleted]

First time in ages that i got a queue to log in on my server (EU-draenor), and this on a thursday night.

Yeah, i am sure many people will agree 5.2 is a disappointment...... -.-

[wow2011]

I'm sorry if you dont see the difference between dailies and heroics. I do, and i completely despise dailies (5.0, 5.1 and probably 5.2 although i havent done them enough yet to despise them).

I dont consider 5.1 dailies fun in any way.

I do have tons of fun in Heroic. And its ok that we have different tastes, i am ok with Blizzard giving dailies so you can have fun. I am NOT ok with Blizard not developing the content I LIKE and instead pushes out dailies as if they were mcdonald's burgers.

A weekly lockout raid doesnt replace heroics.

I agree that the value of heroics and dailies is different. To me, one heroic is worth over 200 dailies. That's the beauty of life, different people like different things. The problem comes when Blizzard stops developing content for those of us that like heroics, even when dungeons (not dailies) made WoW be what it is.

If heroics didn't drop loot or give VP, what is the difference between heroic and an outdoor zone with elites? If you are not doing heroics for gear/vp, then why not get tank/heal and a few dps to take down wandering elites in a massive outdoor dungeon?

Of course more content is better than less content. I just don't think not adding heroic dungeon is too big of a deal as I don't see too much difference between outdoor zone and a heroic zone (assuming you aren't doing it to gear up or get VP). What makes heroic dungeon so different from a brand new zone to you (again, assuming no gear and no VP)?

Why do you find it so annoying to go into a new zone but yet find a smaller indoor zone a ton more fun? Is it because you enjoy needing tank/heal/dps at all times? Is it because you want to group things up and watch them explode? Or is it some feeling that you cannot explain so when you zone into a heroic you just feel good but when you are out in an open zone you just feel bad?

To me, an indoor zone and an outdoor zone are all zones with mobs inside. The few differences that I see:
1. Heroic indoor zone cap is 5 people while outdoor zone's cap is much larger.
2. A heroic indoor zone is linear with specific start to end and outdoor zone doesn't
Everything else is the same.

I don't quite see them as completely separate things and that's why I don't think Blizzard is missing content.

EDIT: fixed typo on numbering

[DeadmanWalking]

Actually we do I think. I just disagree it was a problem. Who cares about old content? I much prefer the model that is loaded with NEW progression every patch not going back to do old shit. This half assed attempt at tiered raiding is an abortion.

Color me surprised and down right shocked that you don't like something that Blizzard is doing diffrent.

[Wafffles]

I'm gonna get a head start, since apparently logging on for 10 seconds is enough time to objectively declare video game releases and updates a failure.

5.3 is a huge disappointment.
5.4 is a monstrous disappointment.
6.0 is a gigantic disappointment. (Though the new murloc playable race is pretty fun. I love their racial, 'gurglblurglmurglfurgl'.)
Titan is a big disappointment. A pet battle spin-off? Really?
Diablo 4 is a tremendous disappointment.
Starcraft 3: Draenei in Space is a superduper disappointment.

There, now you don't have to worry about disparaging Blizzard products the second they go live! Put your feet up, that must be a load off your shoulders!

[Leonard McCoy]

Color me surprised and down right shocked that you don't like something that Blizzard is doing diffrent.

Yes it's true. I deign to challenge the developers. But I'm a superstitious man. And if some unlucky accident should befall me, if I should get shot by a police officer or hang myself in jail or if I was struck by a bolt of lightening then I'm going to blame some of the people on this forum. And that I do not forgive.

[Leonard McCoy]

You are doing it wrong!
You should obviously blame Ghostcrawler.

You talk about blame? Is blame going to bring your game back to you? Or mine to me? I forgo all acts of blame on this game. But I have selfish reasons. My youngest son was forced to leave this country because of all this Sollozo business.

[DeadmanWalking]

You talk about blame? Is blame going to bring your game back to you? Or mine to me? I forgo all acts of blame on this game. But I have selfish reasons. My youngest son was forced to leave this country because of all this Sollozo business.

You must be doing something wrong then because my game was never taken away from me. I havent bought an xbox game since MoP started. In Cata I would buy a new game every month and still have all 5 alts current tier geared. Thats progress if you ask me since I like being busy in the game I play. Then again I don't consider dailies to be a grind because I played Asian MMO's with actual grind.

[Leonard McCoy]

You must be doing something wrong then because my game was never taken away from me. I havent bought an xbox game since MoP started. In Cata I would buy a new game every month and still have all 5 alts current tier geared. Thats progress if you ask me since I like being busy in the game I play. Then again I don't consider dailies to be a grind because I played Asian MMO's with actual grind.

I hoped that we would come here and reason together. And as a reasonable man, I'm willing to do whatever is necessary to find a peaceful solution to these problems.