Impressions of Ret PvP 5.2?

[Deleted]

Mind boggles how bad Ret is in Arena and yet Mages are the ones that get the buff?
Playing 2's atm (Know it's only 2's) but moment anything just looks at me with the thought of doing damage i'm pretty much dead. As for increasing our damage, everything still hits for 30-40k max crit, maybe 50-60k during wings, which guiz we now have on a 2 minute CD because that sorted all our damage problems out.

GG blizz.

[icausewipes]

I'm giving pvp a shot and if the gear gap is not too wide then i do ok.

[Deleted]

It is pretty retarded about the 40% frost bomb buff. Another pve change made on day one of arena. What were they thinking! I can understand fire and arcane getting the buff but frost? They really want to buff RMP through the roof this season.

Wait what did I say just now about the other mage specs needing a buff in pve?



There are so many other specs that need buffing before the mage specs.

[Valedus]

It is pretty retarded about the 40% frost bomb buff. Another pve change made on day one of arena. What were they thinking! I can understand fire and arcane getting the buff but frost? They really want to buff RMP through the roof this season.

Wait what did I say just now about the other mage specs needing a buff in pve?



There are so many other specs that need buffing before the mage specs.

Dude. They even commented in that thread that it really won't effect pvp. In pvp it comes out to like a 5% damage increase, I'm not too worried about it. Also.. PvE DPS has very little to do with PvP DPS. I'm not saying Ret is fine, but you get the point. Honestly, has anyone done extensive arena testing that isn't just AMG I BLEW UP

Were ANY of the problems fixed?

[Deleted]

Dude. They even commented in that thread that it really won't effect pvp. In pvp it comes out to like a 5% damage increase, I'm not too worried about it. Also.. PvE DPS has very little to do with PvP DPS. I'm not saying Ret is fine, but you get the point. Honestly, has anyone done extensive arena testing that isn't just AMG I BLEW UP

Were ANY of the problems fixed?

Lol? 4% damage isent much? ..........I do not mean to sound rude but it dose matter a lot seeing as well as ppl are doing so big numbers now 5% is a lot of damage for an ability that already is pumping the numbers.

[Ebonheart]

I'm just curious as to what other Rets feel about the state of Ret PvP now.

I know 5.2 just hit, so it hasn't really given a whole lot of time for impressions, but I'm interested in the big picture. How do you feel we compare to others classes with all of the "adjustments" and "balancing" that has been done, both to Rets and other classes. Do we feel more viable?

I'm mainly interested in actual PvP experience after 5.2, not so much theory crafting.

I'll eventually get around to testing it on my own, but with my schedule it will probably take a while, so that is why I am curious about other peoples impressions.

Well for anything related to organized PVP i.e Arenas, RBGs, I wouldn't bother investing in a Ret Paladin.

Ret Paladins do really well in random BGs but they are pretty bad otherwise. And when I mean good, they are usually top damage.

It isn't that Paladins are bad as a class or well they are, but its just a lot of other classes have received so much more since our days during WTLK.

Crusader strike is an embarrassment for an ability. It isn't even worth hitting for anything else than that it generates Holy Power. Out side your CDs, we have really bad sustained damage. I still feel Divine Purpose should have been baseline rather than a talent. That would go a long way to solving our sustained damage.

Even Templars Verdict doesn't really hit for that much. I just find that Blizzard have a hard time balancing Ret Paladins cause even a little bit and we can be too OP. Its just that half our damage is Holy Damage.

[Vuagnon]

It is pretty retarded about the 40% frost bomb buff. Another pve change made on day one of arena. What were they thinking! I can understand fire and arcane getting the buff but frost? They really want to buff RMP through the roof this season.

Wait what did I say just now about the other mage specs needing a buff in pve?



There are so many other specs that need buffing before the mage specs.

Was just thinking of making a return back for a couple of months until I saw this. Meh... There still seems to be biased devs making horrible and unbalanced decisions. Unlucky for them, one less sub.

[shadowboxer123]

So with the limited amount of time I had to actually do some PvP, I can say that we are "somewhat" better. Of course my disclaimer is that it is still early in the season, and I am basing that on a limited amount of PvP.

I have been messing around with different glyphs and talents and this is what is working for me to a limited degree:

Glyph of Avenging Wrath, Glyph of Harsh Word, Glyph of TV.

and

Long Arm of the Law, Selfless Healer,Clemency, Burden of Guilt, Holy Prism.

Haven't really decided on SW or HA. SW gives more heals with glyph and helps with kiting, but HA is nice for the 1 minute burst with trinket.

Basically, its a kiting strategy and heal when I can. Of course Rets still have some definite issues (Rated BGs anyone?), but I thought I would try to be somewhat positive and share what is working for me.

So what talents and glyphs are you finding the most useful this season?

[Ntimidate]

I've been gearing up mine to Malevolent as of late. When I first started I kept thinking that things weren't going great because of my gear, but after learning more about other classes and gearing up I really have realized that Retribution is just... mediocre. I'm thinking of making a new class but I can't decide on what to level. My deathknight is at 85, I have a mid 60's rogue, a high 60's warrior, and a 90 mage. I feel the mage would be more FotM and I would rather be melee anyways. Sucks knowing my time has been wasted on Retribution.

[pkm]

Still the same on my mage really. CC when they bursting and burn them down. I was looking to gear a melee and was looking at ret. But was disappointed.

[Regen]

I enjoy ret pvp, probably mostly because I just enjoy my ret, but I can tell gearing up its going to end up mediocre at best. My feral is full malev and my frost/unholy dk is full dreadful an I feel I'll be mich better off leaving my pvp to them and killing dragons with my ret.

[anabolicz]

repentance and blinding light both suck cuz it breaks on dmg.... hopeless...

[Psilar]

Honestly I have no idea what the fuck Blizzard is doing. My Shadow priest and Fury/Arms warrior do more damage than my Ret with 12 less item levels.

You could buff Ret healing times a million and it wouldn't change much. When I stomp in BGs with my healer buddy we still die. It's to the same few classes and skilled players that have always killed us. Mainly frost mages, rogues, and shadow priests.

You can't buff Ret healing and expect to solve the problem. Our utility blows because it doesn't help us. OK! I BOPPED you! You're living, I'm dying. Ok I Sac'd you, I'm dying faster! My heals are way better when I heal...someone else... No other class is like this except healing classes.

IMO they need to reword the fuckin talent trees. Repentence should be baseline for Ret and no one else, or at the very least make it an instant with a 30 second cooldown for Ret. I personally want to see new level 90 talents. I won't be changing from Holy Prism anytime soon.

If you made a 30 second hammer baseline for and remove the talent for Ret. You could move Light's Hammer to that tier, make Blinding Light a talent, and add in a new AoE slow/stun/snare of some kind.

I don't like execution sentence because you see if coming....

Ret needs utility - and they need utility that helps themself not someone else. Until this gets changed we will continue wrecking scrubs in randoms and continue getting owned by people with brains.

[Regen]

I'm trying to decide between my ret, feral and dk for my pvp character and reading all of this gives me a feeling I shouldn't waste the 9-10 hours of BG grinding to even gear my paladin when in the end the other two would be easier and better :/ sad Thursday is sad.

[Strear]

repentance and blinding light both suck cuz it breaks on dmg.... hopeless...

Glyphed blinding light doesn't break.

[Tangra]

Glyphed blinding light doesn't break.

Yeah but it wastes a major glyph and only last 3 sec... not really much to write home about... maybe if it added the stun and did not take the blind away...

[Sathen]

It is pretty retarded about the 40% frost bomb buff. Another pve change made on day one of arena. What were they thinking! I can understand fire and arcane getting the buff but frost? They really want to buff RMP through the roof this season.

Wait what did I say just now about the other mage specs needing a buff in pve?



There are so many other specs that need buffing before the mage specs.

Umm, did you see the recent data from live? All mage specs were near the bottom if not at the bottom. Fire popped up a little bit in the top 100 on raidbots because of RNG. The buffs were needed. Now, they did come really fast, but I don't care much as long as the other low specs get buffed in the next week or two.

Anyways, I think Ret has definitely improved. In PvE, for example, we are middle/upper middle of the pack. Not the worst, not the best. We should be fine for the most part. I disagree with some of the changes for PvP, though. Our Survivability went up, but it was done through FoL. This forces us even more into Selfless Healer, which is bad in my opinion. They really need to remove the instant cast aspect of the talent and give it back to Ret baseline. I would have preferred a buff to passive survivability instead. On the PTR forum I advocated for a Cata Sacred Shield mechanic be added back into the spec, but that didn't go anywhere, sadly.

Another problem is Ret's utility. They recognized this one, at least, but did not do a very good job of fixing it. The thing is, Ret has a lot of utility, but it has two issues: first, its mostly defensive, meaning it is much easier to use for healers than it is for melee. Second, all our utility is shared with Holy. And the latter just exacerbates the former. Something needed to be changed for Ret to differentiate the spec from Holy, some offensive utility, but instead we got magic dispell. I mean, it is nice, it just does a little bit for arena and nothing for RBGs, while continues the issues I mentioned.

Basically, the spec improved, but I disagree with some of the improvements, and I think they could have been done better.

Edit: another thing about the Frost Bomb change, they did reduce the damage it does against players. I doubt it is going to be the problem people are making it out to be.

[Gemo]

As much as I like the buffed healing and absolve it still does not change Retributions problem. Having stunremoval back on HoF like in the old days would be great.

[Valedus]

I'm trying to decide between my ret, feral and dk for my pvp character and reading all of this gives me a feeling I shouldn't waste the 9-10 hours of BG grinding to even gear my paladin when in the end the other two would be easier and better :/ sad Thursday is sad.

Feral and DK are both pretty damn good right now. If you end up playing Feral pvp though, expect to have to go guardian for RBG FC maps. DK will be frost the entire time.
Both are pretty damn viable in arena, though, and both are damn fun in random BG's.

But...
Yeah. Agreed with a lot here. Did RBG's today with our new group we are putting together as Boomkin and honestly... My burst was crazier than Ret, I could actually CC/peel,, and was WANTED for an RBG team. It felt amazing, actually. That and I just couldn't help but feel bad for the full malevolent Ret with 400k HP who had wings and got put into a 20 second CC chain and sat there doing nothing for 2 minutes. I felt bad because I could relate.

Ret stays as my dragonslayer I guess, and PvP on the druid, hunter, and Monk, I guess. Every tiem I play my windwalker it honestly just feels like what Ret should be, and is depressing. Touch of Karma makes Bubble look like last month's mutton.

[Nairobi]

Feral and DK are both pretty damn good right now. If you end up playing Feral pvp though, expect to have to go guardian for RBG FC maps. DK will be frost the entire time.
Both are pretty damn viable in arena, though, and both are damn fun in random BG's.

But...
Yeah. Agreed with a lot here. Did RBG's today with our new group we are putting together as Boomkin and honestly... My burst was crazier than Ret, I could actually CC/peel,, and was WANTED for an RBG team. It felt amazing, actually. That and I just couldn't help but feel bad for the full malevolent Ret with 400k HP who had wings and got put into a 20 second CC chain and sat there doing nothing for 2 minutes. I felt bad because I could relate.

Ret stays as my dragonslayer I guess, and PvP on the druid, hunter, and Monk, I guess. Every tiem I play my windwalker it honestly just feels like what Ret should be, and is depressing. Touch of Karma makes Bubble look like last month's mutton.

Ayup. Been playing my DK more DPS and less full-time blood in 5.2 (UH, always loved it and hated frost...) mostly just doing dailies, and getting jumped by random's I can just roflstomp, even in zero PVP gear. The amount of control and utility you have at the cost of less healing is a great tradeoff. I don't even feel that fragile. Really debating just gearing him up this season instead of my Ret or Warrior even. But I may just play it safe and go spriest.

That said, I've been working on Khan (have all the pre-req's for it minus Veteran for BFG, IOC, TP, Kotmo, and a few things in SSM) and doing random BGs on the Ret. HOLY CRAP. I dunno if it's just all the reroll kiddies out there, but I'm stomping fools. The only thing that lives longer than 20 seconds is a warlock with all of their eleventy-three bubbles/defensives. Def extremely fun, but winning usually is. Sad, cause I know it wont translate over to a rated setting, but it's hella fun just mucking around on the Ret still.

And again, I agree entirely that the Monk/WW dev's mistakenly got the Pala/Ret changelog delivered to them and just ran with it. ToK, Chi Wave, Expel Harm, and the insane amount of movement and a reliable snare are basically the things that would have made Ret/pala current, viable (and maybe a TAD OP, with that mobility).