1. #3341
    So gonna start this off by saying sorry if these questions have been asked before. I recently came back to the game and working on making a lock my main so had a couple of quick questions. Is there a certain ilvl or something in which I should switch to GoSac? I noticed most of the higher geared locks are Sac so was curious as to when to make the switch or if it's just better now. 2nd should I just stick with the M>C>H stat priority or is going for certain breakpoints an advantage in terms of haste? Thanks in advance for the help!

  2. #3342
    Quote Originally Posted by Flavorbolt View Post
    So gonna start this off by saying sorry if these questions have been asked before. I recently came back to the game and working on making a lock my main so had a couple of quick questions. Is there a certain ilvl or something in which I should switch to GoSac? I noticed most of the higher geared locks are Sac so was curious as to when to make the switch or if it's just better now. 2nd should I just stick with the M>C>H stat priority or is going for certain breakpoints an advantage in terms of haste? Thanks in advance for the help!
    No. Use whatever you want, though GoSac gets better when you get a lot of extra ember gen through Shadowburn.

    M>C>H vs M>H>C doesn't make any real difference. Use whichever you prefer.

  3. #3343
    What's better:

    Using upgraded LFR tier 4 set: ilvl 536

    or

    using upgraded LFR tier pants, gloves, chest (536) and then ilvl 561 http://www.wowhead.com/item=103751/h...wirling-senses as headpiece?

  4. #3344
    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy View Post
    What's better:

    Using upgraded LFR tier 4 set: ilvl 536

    or

    using upgraded LFR tier pants, gloves, chest (536) and then ilvl 561 http://www.wowhead.com/item=103751/h...wirling-senses as headpiece?
    Use 4 set. refresh immolate when it procs

  5. #3345
    Legendary! Rivellana's Avatar
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    I just have a simple question.

    I've been mostly a healer since back in BC and don't play DPS all that often. I recently leveled a warlock and I absolutely love it. However, the toon will probably never do more content this expansion than LFR and possibly some flex.

    I managed to get LFR versions of PBoI and KTT and upgraded them. I'm wondering if I should try to get BBoY too, and if I do manage to get it, what combination of trinkets is better (depending on boss).

    This is my toon currently: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...antly/advanced

    Thanks!

  6. #3346
    Has anyone used the Challenge Mode feature of simc at all? For some reason, I keep getting very weird values for Haste.

    Trying to find the best secondary..




  7. #3347
    Deleted
    when refreshing immolate is it better to refresh with a highe crit buff or with high int? if i cant get them togheter that is=)

  8. #3348
    Quote Originally Posted by Aqira91 View Post
    when refreshing immolate is it better to refresh with a highe crit buff or with high int? if i cant get them togheter that is=)
    Crit to generate more embers==>CB/Sburn will trump the increased damage from the intellect proc on the Immolate in general.

  9. #3349
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivelle View Post
    I just have a simple question.

    I've been mostly a healer since back in BC and don't play DPS all that often. I recently leveled a warlock and I absolutely love it. However, the toon will probably never do more content this expansion than LFR and possibly some flex.

    I managed to get LFR versions of PBoI and KTT and upgraded them. I'm wondering if I should try to get BBoY too, and if I do manage to get it, what combination of trinkets is better (depending on boss).

    This is my toon currently: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...antly/advanced

    Thanks!
    PBoI is best. Between BBoY and KTT it's basically even with BBoY slightly ahead theoretically. I personally prefer KTT over BBoY because in practice it can be really difficult to get bolts off at optimal stacks w/ BBoY due to fight mechanics. If it was a 20 sec proc where each stack lasted 2 seconds I'd much prefer BBoY.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tazgoth View Post
    Crit to generate more embers==>CB/Sburn will trump the increased damage from the intellect proc on the Immolate in general.
    Technically if the amount of int was high enough that it was granting close to the same amount of crit as the crit proc Int would be better. (Not equal, because Immolate damage done is not 0)

    Though in practice I doubt anyone would have enough Int in a proc to be better than the 4 set.

  10. #3350
    simulationcraft says troll is a increase of 3.8% dps for me, (I"m undead) with my gear, shit's op man.... i'm going to race change

  11. #3351
    Quote Originally Posted by Zharradan View Post
    simulationcraft says troll is a increase of 3.8% dps for me, (I"m undead) with my gear, shit's op man.... i'm going to race change
    Unless your guild is wiping to enrages on the last couple/few heroic bosses, I wouldn't bother paying cash for that yet -- they're gonna be doing a pass on racials for WoD. Might wind up not changing Undead/Troll, but ...

    (also some dude is starting a rumor that in a couple/few weeks Blizz is having another half-off sale of paid character services. He didn't give a source [of course], but I don't think it's out of the question for it to happen as we're wrapping up MoP)
    I am the one who knocks ... because I need your permission to enter.

  12. #3352
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    Unless your guild is wiping to enrages on the last couple/few heroic bosses, I wouldn't bother paying cash for that yet -- they're gonna be doing a pass on racials for WoD. Might wind up not changing Undead/Troll, but ...

    (also some dude is starting a rumor that in a couple/few weeks Blizz is having another half-off sale of paid character services. He didn't give a source [of course], but I don't think it's out of the question for it to happen as we're wrapping up MoP)
    It's 12 dolars for me (i'm on a brazilian realm) so I think it's a good investiment, also I'm playing as undead since the end of cata so i'm tired, i was orc before

  13. #3353
    @Tazgoth - SimC will fail hard for challenge modes, becuase it can't simulate very well the aspect that drives destro's performance: trash and ember generation that comes with AoE packs or shadowburn executes.

    Mastery will be your best secondary, becuase you're going to putting so much of your damage into ember consumers when you take the entirety of an instance into account.

  14. #3354
    Ok I have a quick question. I know the whole crit vs haste debate has been run into the ground, but when looking at optimizing I could gain 8% mastery if I sacrifice 873 spell power. Is it worth it?

    Thanks

  15. #3355
    Quote Originally Posted by traumabrew View Post
    Ok I have a quick question. I know the whole crit vs haste debate has been run into the ground, but when looking at optimizing I could gain 8% mastery if I sacrifice 873 spell power. Is it worth it?

    Thanks
    How are you gaining 8% mastery but losing only 873 SP? Do you mean you're losing Int which makes you lose 873 SP?

    Also, since I don't have numbers off the top of my head but you probably have a reference (character sheet or something), how much _rating_ is 8% mastery?

  16. #3356
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    How are you gaining 8% mastery but losing only 873 SP? Do you mean you're losing Int which makes you lose 873 SP?

    Also, since I don't have numbers off the top of my head but you probably have a reference (character sheet or something), how much _rating_ is 8% mastery?
    If my math isn't wrong it should be 1600 rating (200 mastery = 1%).

    BTW: I'm thinking about writing a small list with tips for destro and every boss.
    Do you think that this would be a good addition to the opening post if some guys here contribute their part, too?
    I only have my raids 10men tactics (which sometimes are a bit strange ) and quite surely am not executing everything optimal. So my list will not be perfect of course
    Last edited by mmocf671b58f24; 2014-01-28 at 04:34 AM.

  17. #3357
    Quote Originally Posted by Melian View Post
    If my math isn't wrong it should be 1600 rating (200 mastery = 1%).

    BTW: I'm thinking about writing a small list with tips for destro and every boss.
    Do you think that this would be a good addition to the opening post if some guys here contribute their part, too?
    I only have my raids 10men tactics (which sometimes are a bit strange ) and quite surely am not executing everything optimal. So my list will not be perfect of course
    Again, how are you losing 873 spellpower? If it is 1600 rating vs _only_ 873 SP, it's probably really close so do whatever. SP would be higher damage with a few targets, while Mastery would be higher damage with lots of targets all the time.

    I dunno if I'd include boss tips/tricks in the guide. The purpose of the guide is to help people play Destro in a PvE setting and understand all of the basics and components such that they'd be able to make an informed decision on their own. (Hence, for example, the gem section being "How you could do this" rather than "Here's a list of what to use") A boss tips/tricks doesn't really fit in the context of that so I'd be likely not to include it.

    THAT SAID! Feel free to do so and post it here or a thread or whatever. I'm sure many people (myself included) would like to look at something like that.

  18. #3358
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Again, how are you losing 873 spellpower? If it is 1600 rating vs _only_ 873 SP, it's probably really close so do whatever. SP would be higher damage with a few targets, while Mastery would be higher damage with lots of targets all the time.

    I dunno if I'd include boss tips/tricks in the guide. The purpose of the guide is to help people play Destro in a PvE setting and understand all of the basics and components such that they'd be able to make an informed decision on their own. (Hence, for example, the gem section being "How you could do this" rather than "Here's a list of what to use") A boss tips/tricks doesn't really fit in the context of that so I'd be likely not to include it.

    THAT SAID! Feel free to do so and post it here or a thread or whatever. I'm sure many people (myself included) would like to look at something like that.
    he's probably changing from one hand + off that don't have any mastery but are superior ilvl to heirloom staff or sha of pride staff (both have mastery)

  19. #3359
    Quote Originally Posted by Turturin the Warlock View Post
    @Tazgoth - SimC will fail hard for challenge modes, becuase it can't simulate very well the aspect that drives destro's performance: trash and ember generation that comes with AoE packs or shadowburn executes.

    Mastery will be your best secondary, becuase you're going to putting so much of your damage into ember consumers when you take the entirety of an instance into account.
    What do you think about Haste vs Crit?

    Regardless of the trash/ember generation that comes from shadowburn and how we can game the system for a lot of damage from embers (havoc, bringing 4embers into a boss, etc), I still don't see why haste would have that value.

  20. #3360
    Deleted
    EDIT @Tazgoth:
    IDK, but it looks like that you are very close to a haste breakpoint (for Immolate?) with your current gear downscaled. That way any further point is very weak compared to crit and mastery. Also this is just a wild guess.

    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I dunno if I'd include boss tips/tricks in the guide. The purpose of the guide is to help people play Destro in a PvE setting and understand all of the basics and components such that they'd be able to make an informed decision on their own. (Hence, for example, the gem section being "How you could do this" rather than "Here's a list of what to use") A boss tips/tricks doesn't really fit in the context of that so I'd be likely not to include it.
    That sounds reasonable, I understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    THAT SAID! Feel free to do so and post it here or a thread or whatever. I'm sure many people (myself included) would like to look at something like that.
    I would also be happy for some furhter optimizations to my playstile, so here's my list.
    Although I hope it is decent, I apollogize for my english in advance .

    Keep in mind that everything I wrote is from a 10men PoV and propably subject to change with other raids tacitcs. So it might or might not be reasonable for everyone.
    I also included the first bosses, even though I think it is not very interesting until Malkorok.
    If I was unsure about something or felt that some comment was necessary, I added it in <<>>

    Any further additions are highly appreciated!
    EDIT: Everything is hc only, of course. I don't think any tips are necessary for nhc...

    Immerseus
    • Use your Imp to dispell Swelling Corruption
    • Demonic Gateway helps the raid reaching their spot to kill the adds faster. Keep in mind that the gateway tends to despawn if its set to close to the center ring <<not sure if this is fixed now, I don't use it anymore>>
    • Skill Shadowfury to stun adds on their way to the center
    • (Sidenote: first wave of adds make this almost the only encounter where you COULD use your infernal without being completely wasted )

    The Fallen Protectors
    • Keep up Rain of Fire to build up embers
    • You can either havoc CBs for DPS or ember generators to maximize single target DPS. The latter is much better if you are progressing of course
    • Dark Bargain can help you survive He Softfoods Mark of Anguish longer

    Norushen
    • Use Havoc to spread DMG - ideally SB - from the adds
    • You can use your Demonic Circle to get through the Blind Hatred. Be careful, as using Demonic Gateway for this task will sometimes give you a tick of Blind Hatred

    Sha of Pride
    • Set your Demonic Circle at your raids gathering position to minimize moving time if you got the Gift of the Titans
    • Try to havoc SBs from both the Reflections and the Manifestation of Pride

    Galakras
    • Try to havoc SBs between adds. You should generally try to use SB as much as possible on this fight
    • You can use Demonic Circle to switch faster if you have to stack Flames of Galakrond on the other camp

    Iron Juggernaut
    • If your tanks need help, you can blow up mines. Depending on your gear it will be enough if you have full hp and a maximized Soul Leech shield or you have to use a cooldown like Demonic Sacrifice <<don't know if this is possible in 25men, too?>>. You can avoid all bomb damage if you teleport out as you are jumping on them.

    Kor'kron Dark Shamans
    • With sacrificed demon and Sacrifical Pact you can completely ignore the Iron Prison if you time it well. Generaly by using Sacrifical Pact at about 18sec left, you will always have it ready for the next Iron Prison. Keep in mind that all AE damage will reduce the absorb in the meantime
    <<We are tanking the bosses separated. Any further tips for the other tactic?>>

    General Nazgrim
    • Try to havoc from adds to boss as much as possible. But be aware, that Havoc damage WILL give him rage during Defensive Stance
    • If your healers have problems, you could play with Grimoire of Supremacy and Soul Link for maximum damage reduction combined with some aditional selfheal. But generaly Grimoire of Sacrifice will be better for DPS. That said, your Pet will not generate Rage during Defensive Stance. So it performes quite well, too.

    Malkorok
    • You can use Demonic Circle to get down as fast as possible after an Living Corruption kicked you up. Keep in mind not to stand on your circle, as you will stack Essence of Y'Shaarj on it. Also try to stand some yds away from it to avoid getting Languish debuff from the add after teleporting down
    • You can use defensive CDs to collect the Essences during the intermission phases if your healers have problems keeping the raid up
    • Your Imp can be used to dispell Displaced Energy. Be careful that no one is within 8yds, as you will most likely kill them otherwise

    Spoils of Pandaria
    • You can solo the Unstable Sparks if NO ONE(!) else is making damage on them. Cast a CB followed by a SB and the spark should be dead with you staying ember neutral. Be aware that this becomes impossible with better gear, as you will oneshot the sparks <<tried it last week ^^>>
    • SB is your best friend during this encounter. SB everything. all. the. time.

    Thok the Bloodthirsty
    • Use Grimoire of Supremacy and a Fel Imp to help dispelling during phase 2 and the second intermission. Additionally you can use Cauterize Master for a very (most times useless) small self heal - maybe sometimes it will save your ass if no healers are in range
    • Glyph of Unending Resolve will give you a 2min CD that makes you immune to interrupts. You can use this in P1 and then again in P2 to bomb the Bats
    • Demonic Gateway will ease up the intermissions depending on your raids kiting tactics. Be aware that your gateway will despawn if you move to far away from one of the portals. So try to avoid kiting Thok (he will most likely not choose you if you are in melee range)
    • Glyph of Havoc is very strong on this fight if you use it to spread more than 3 SBs from dying bats. You can use it again in P3 to build up more embers by spreading generators to the Yeti if he is in range.
    • If you can't spread more than 3 SBs from the bats, it is better not to glyph Havoc and use it on the Jailers, too

    Siegecrafter Blackfuse
    <<in my raid I'm on the conveyor belt so I do not have many things for the main plattform. Also I think that there are completely different tactics here, which is why I don't have many general tips>>
    • You can use a Demonic Gateway to shorten the way of the assembly line teams to mines (if you follow a tactic that involves killing mines). But keep in mind that it will despawn if you move away to far (=Conveyor Belt e.g.)
    • Skill Shadowfury for an AE stun on the mines (if your raid has difficulties with them and you are an engineer (best profession atm), you can use a EMP Generator for a second AE stun)
    • Your Demonic Circle will make it quite fast and easy to teleport down from the Conveyor Belt if you have to be up there in your raid

    Paragons of the Klaxxi
    <<again many things depend on the raids tactic>>
    • Accoring to the fact that this is a fight with high movement, Kil'jaeden's Cunning is superior here <<at least thats my opinion - then again I always use it because I'm kind of a noob and I LOVE it :P>>
    • Skill Shadowfury to stun a Bloodletting add if it comes to close
    • You can use Shadowfury as well as Howl of Terror to CC Amber Parasites resulting in less raid damage. Your healers will love you!
    • Keep up Rain of Fire to maximize ember generation
    • Havocing ember generators will also maximize your single target DPS here (AE is padding on this encounter. You don't want to do this during progress)
    • Depending on your gear you can intercept Hisek the Swarmkeepers Aim either by skilling Grimoire of Supremacy along with Soul Link or Grimoire of Sacrifice along with Sacrificial Pact. If you sac, you can use your Voild Walkers Shadow Bulwark as an additional defensive CD. It is quite powerful, don't forget it!
    • Don't forget that you can damage your own Kunchong if you are Mezermized and skilled Kil'jaeden's Cunning

    Garrosh Hellscream
    <<I'm curerntly progressing him in P3 (we also play some weird things like bombing the P1 adds to death (so much dps... <3)) so some tips from people who already downed him would be appreciated. Also the tactics vastly differ between 10 and 25men afaik>>
    • Run Felhunter, either with Grimoire of Sacrifice or Grimoire of Supremacy(=Observer) for an additional interrupt. Be aware that choosing Observer gives you an interrupt not on GCD
    • If your raid kills the adds in P1 try to havoc SB to the boss. Also try doing this from any weapon you potentially kill as well as in P2 with the adds from empowered whirls
    • You can ease up the ways for the guy killing the Siege Engineers with your Demonic Gateway. But keep in mind that it tends to despawn if you are to far away from one of the portals
    • Try to get into the first intermission with full embers to AE down a pack as fast as possible. You will be able to keep up AE with Rain of Fire and full embers. If you are assigned to one of the back room groups, you can also generate enough embers by RoFing the packs on your way back. Also Shadowfury is a strong AE stun/interrupt in intermission 1
    • (10men) You should be able to prohibit your add running away during an empowered whirl by keeping up Rain of Fire and using Conflagrate on it as soon as it spawnsConflagrate on it as soon as it spawns
    • (25men) Apply Rain of Fire on the empowered whirl adds, kited by you offtank, if the run past
    • Your AE is very strong in intermission 2. Depending on aggro you should or should not wait with AE until you reach the upper plattform. If you pull aggro, remember Soulshatter!
    • Generally Twilight Ward is very strong on this encounter as almost every damage you will take is shadow damage and it absorbs a decent amount with good gear (150k++)


    ---EDIT: updated with the feedback from Grizelda and rijn dael. Thanks a lot!
    Last edited by mmocf671b58f24; 2014-01-29 at 10:24 PM. Reason: corrected some spelling mistakes and added the part to Tazgoth

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