Thunderforged: 25 man vs 10 man

[Dubalicious]

The issue is when you're a 10m Guild competing for progression (and server firsts) with 25m guilds.

You're absolutely right, I tend to forget that server first achievements are still shared. . . Ugh

I still think tuning between the 2 formats makes a bigger difference than what ilvls can account for, but that's entirely subjective.

[Rhaktor]

Seems silly to pile incentive after incentive into a format that's barely used. That said it doesn't really bother me - I'll stay 10 man under the current system.

I think there's 2 guilds on my realm (Stormscale EU) that have made the change to 25 man this patch (Rapid Eye Movement and Apex) so I guess woo 25 man?

Also - 6 bosses down on 10 man, 0 thunderforged from loot or coins.

[fangless]

Seems silly to pile incentive after incentive into a format that's barely used.

I think there's 2 guilds on my realm (Stormscale EU) that have made the change to 25 man this patch

It seems silly but it did what it was supposed to do. I'm actually 100% surprised any new 25m guilds are being formed at this point, considering the fact that it seems very improbable that any 10-13 person roster can suddenly acquire another 10-15 people without a merger.

The actual issue is that no 25m guild asked for some new higher ilvl items at an exclusive rate. We already were given a slightly higher loot drop rate, and no one really seemed to notice.

[Venant]

Yep, and will cause a lot of players to stop playing, ie those who actually enjoy 10 man raiding having finally it being made equal to 25 for it only to be downgraded again.

Recently a whole foods opened in my town, and even though I enjoy eating food every day; I am so demoralized that people are able to buy higher quality food at this new grocery store that I am going to give up eating. This is pretty much the logic behind somebody quitting something they enjoy doing because somebody else, who has no effect on them playing the game, is effectively getting slightly better purple pixels.

[kilj]

Yea it doesn't makes sense for all the criers saying 25 mans are so easy for all the reasons listed above. Yet 25mans are such a small portion of the raiding population. Doesn't make sense if 25mans were soo easy why are they such a shrinking raiding style?

because why would I want to carry 15 baddies, when I could play with 10 friends who actually arent bad...

[Hokuto]

Recently a whole foods opened in my town, and even though I enjoy eating food every day; I am so demoralized that people are able to buy higher quality food at this new grocery store that I am going to give up eating.This is pretty much the logic behind somebody quitting something they enjoy doing because somebody else, who has no effect on them playing the game, is effectively getting slightly better purple pixels.

Let's turn that (flawed) logic around and see if it still works.

You wouldn't mind if 25s had "slightly worse purple pixels", right? I mean, you do it because you like, loot is only secondary. It could drop LFR gear for all you care.

...no?

[Loucy]

because why would I want to carry 15 baddies, when I could play with 10 friends who actually arent bad...

Done the last three tiers on 25m and 10m(All on heroic), some encounters are harder on 25 and easier on 10 and vice versa. In general 25m needs more cordination and well, let's look at it this way, bosses with fire on the ground will automatically have more fire on 25 to avoid than 10m.
25 man and 10 man is different brackets, but if it would be up to me, 25 man is harder than 10 man.

[kilj]

Got my first thunderforged item this week in 10 man and it was only because of coin roll

[Exertim]

10m competing with 25m (and vice versa) is dumb anyways. The raids are fundamentally different (dramatically so on a couple of encounters) so they really should just compete within their own bracket. Even Paragon admitted that 25m and 10m were different when they were pressed to release their HM Lei Shen video.

[kilj]

Yes they are definately different between 10 and 25 but don't be like oh ones harder than the other...

[Venant]

Let's turn that (flawed) logic around and see if it still works.

You wouldn't mind if 25s had "slightly worse purple pixels", right? I mean, you do it because you like, loot is only secondary. It could drop LFR gear for all you care.

...no?

So in my analogy, you would suggest protesting at my grocery store until they turn into whole foods? Gear is almost the primary motivation for those interested in character progression when it comes to WoW. Sometimes the choice comes down to 'well i will get more progression with 10 man vs 25 man and a chance at better gear.' It would seem obvious that it is easier to get 100% of your raid at a higher ability level when you only need 10 people vs 25 people, and just about every guild that I have seen willingly go from 25 to 10 man did so because they believed it would result in better progression (which equates to better loot). Moral of the story: everyone wants better loot, when blizzard messes with loot somebody is going to QQ about it and try to make them change it by threatening to quit etc. I don't know about you, but every time I have quit WoW my chances of getting loot went to zero, which makes it somewhat silly to threaten quitting over loot.

[Kamakaze1203]

I think that the whole thunderforged aspect was a good idea, but that in the end just didn't work out very well

[Deleted]

6 items per boss in 25man feels a little excessive. Remember when every boss dropped 3 items for 40 players?

[Theiea]

6 items per boss in 25man feels a little excessive. Remember when every boss dropped 3 items for 40 players?

Ya, and it sucked having to wait months for that 1 peice, and if it did drop, hoping you won the roll/had the DKP/etc

Loot system is fine now, only thing I would change is having 2 peices + token drop for 10m, instead of 1/1.