Issues with 5.2

[Uennie]

I dont mind it when people disagree with me. You are very welcome to your opinion, and disagreement is one of the toosl that leads to improvement. I'm not callign you a troll because you disagree with em. I called you a troll because all you said was "QQ" and you offered absolutely nothing constructive. When you can offer a well-thought out, constructive arguement with valid points, we can have an intelligent discussion. until then, you will be considered a troll. Good day, sir





I SAID GOOD DAY!

---------- Post added 2013-03-07 at 10:16 AM ----------



I am not a game designer, nor am I overly creative. I don't feel that I need to offer ideas on how to better handle things. I am a paying customer who has the right to complain if I feel that the service I am paying for is sub-par. Would you go out to a steakhouse and offer suggestions to the management on how they could better prepare your steak if you though it was a crappy one?

I offered genuine thoughts, and you called me a troll and decide you can throw people out of your thread just because they won't agree with you?

This is beyond amusing. You have zero interest in talking to people, even when they're not talking down to you. This isn't a thread for discussion, this is a thread for your ego. You demand something that you yourself didn't even fulfill when you made this thread.

You QQ, that's all you do, boo.

[forwards1ca]

I offered genuine thoughts, and you called me a troll and decide you can throw people out of your thread just because they won't agree with you?

This is beyond amusing. You have zero interest in talking to people, even when they're not talking down to you. This isn't a thread for discussion, this is a thread for your ego. You demand something that you yourself didn't even fulfill when you made this thread.

You QQ, that's all you do, boo.

Your original comment offered absolutely nothing original or relevant to the thread. You said "I see a lot of capslock because you can't wear bananas. " How is that a genuine thought?

I will admit that your next post was a bit less trollish, but it still offered nothgn relevant to the thread or my complaints. YOU either didn't read what I posted or you chose to ignore what I said and act like a troll.

How is this a thread fo rmy ego? My ego has nothing to do with what I percieve to be significant problems with the game. How am I demanding something I didn't even fulfill when makign this thread? Please elaborate, as I am confused as hell.

There are serious problems with this game that blizzard is ignoring. I am pretty sure that I'm not the only one unhappy withthe state of the game. This game has such an awesoem potential to be kickass, btu it seems like blizzard doesnt care to try and improve the core game issues. Instead, they offer us a bunch of bandaid patches that are supposed to placate us. THe fact that most of the people in the game just accept the crap that blizzard throws at us is a problem. If we as a community stood up and demanded a better product, blizzard would have to fix things. But, we are sheep and don't, so we get things like 5.2.

[Uennie]

Your original comment offered absolutely nothing original or relevant to the thread. You said "I see a lot of capslock because you can't wear bananas. " How is that a genuine thought?

I will admit that your next post was a bit less trollish, but it still offered nothgn relevant to the thread or my complaints. YOU either didn't read what I posted or you chose to ignore what I said and act like a troll.

How is this a thread fo rmy ego? My ego has nothing to do with what I percieve to be significant problems with the game. How am I demanding something I didn't even fulfill when makign this thread? Please elaborate, as I am confused as hell.

There are serious problems with this game that blizzard is ignoring. I am pretty sure that I'm not the only one unhappy withthe state of the game. This game has such an awesoem potential to be kickass, btu it seems like blizzard doesnt care to try and improve the core game issues. Instead, they offer us a bunch of bandaid patches that are supposed to placate us. THe fact that most of the people in the game just accept the crap that blizzard throws at us is a problem. If we as a community stood up and demanded a better product, blizzard would have to fix things. But, we are sheep and don't, so we get things like 5.2.

Oh please you didn't give a damn about my first post (which wasn't trolling, it just wasn't serious), you didn't even quote it (or even mention it until now). You're just hyped up because you're not getting as much validation as you thought you would. You sure expect a hell of a lot from responses for posting a QQ thread.

Get some reading comprehension, I never called you a troll. I said at first I thought it might be, but it obviously wasn't. Good God Get a Grip Girl/Guy. Serious problems in the game aren't getting shitty and confrontational about transmog and then continuing the rest of the mess downwards in what was mostly a disorganized rant. If you want to pretend that you honestly made a thread with any form of merit, be my guest, I'll just sit pretty and serve dgaf realness.

[TheronShadowstorm]

The reason i don't offer ideas is because the fixes are so freaking simple that they really speak for themselves.

1. Don't gate some professions and not others

How do you propose this should be fixed then? A main central ingredient for crafting leather is the magnificent hides. Imperial silk for tailors. What would Blacksmiths and Engineers use as the discovery gateway. The bars they use are from smelting or transmutation(alchemy). How would the Blacksmiths and Engineers who don't have mining and alchemy as a 2nd profession supposed to mange those discovery? They had to introduce some new mechanic for them to have random discoveries. I don't believe you work for Blizzard, so feel free to apply for a job if you think you can truly contribute better aside from QQ. If your not QQing, and it's simple, answer how this should have been handled better and see how many people can poke your ideas full of holes.

The reason i don't offer ideas is because the fixes are so freaking simple that they really speak for themselves.
2. Make a pet class where the pet does what it is supposed to and has some survivability on par with other pets.

Please, by all means show us examples of your work at programming AI to not only be functional, but intelligent enough to anticipate the users every want, and need with minimal need to steer. Please, by all means, give Blizzard the AI coding they need to make my pet get out of the aoe, tank in a certain position and facing, and provide me a to fine tune control my pet

The reason i don't offer ideas is because the fixes are so freaking simple that they really speak for themselves.
3. If you're going to allow old gear to be purchased with new titles, don't leave out the new classes that weren't inthe game when the gear was available, or don't let anyone have it. Leaving out 2 classes is either a major oversight, or a complete dick move.
.

Design intent, deal with it. They don't ant warriors to run around in togas just as they don't want priests that look like they can tank a Sha. Each class for the most part has a unique "style". The dark imposing looks of some of the DK gear is theirs and theirs alone. Paladins players are all fruits and nuts ;-) So they deserve their banana shoulders.

The reason i don't offer ideas is because the fixes are so freaking simple that they really speak for themselves.

4. Most importantly, make an attepmt to fix the core issues with pvp instead of just throwing a bandaid on everything. I'm not agame designer, nor am I overly creative with things liek this, but it really needs reworking. It really seems that BLizz is suffering forma a major case of tryign to fix what ain't broken and ignoring what is.

Not that simple. 11 Classes. Imagine a Balance Scale, but not with 2 pans to weigh against each other, but a scale that goess 11 ways. A scale that is not symetrical but branches out at different heights, lengths and angles from every other arm. Now imagine you have weights, all of different sizes, shapes and are all greased at the bottom. Place a weight down on one side of the scale, and it will tilt one way, place a weight somewhere else, and not only will the scale tilt a different way, it shifts your previous weights.

This isn't rock paper scissors. The balancing is something dynamic and will NEVER change. Look at how some people complain of skills at the lower level being too Overpowered, or too Underpowered. They had to focus on balancing at the end game. They add new gear, ok something that was balanced became unbalanced. There was a skill that was broken and had to be fixed, the balance has changed again. New expansion comes out. Throw everything out and its back to square one. An endless cycle.


QQ less and be useful. You can't offer ideas because you can't see an issue from all angles enough to realize it is NOT simple.

[Leonard McCoy]

Why is it that everyone who has a criticism of your criticism feels they can turn it around on you as if your the game developer and it's your job to come up with systems to get around how cumbersome their designs are.

[ironmike666]

u sir need to take ur pills

[TheronShadowstorm]

Why is it that everyone who has a criticism of your criticism feels they can turn it around on you as if your the game developer and it's your job to come up with systems to get around how cumbersome their designs are.

Because we are not a support group. I am not here to give anyone a hug and wipe away their tears. I'm hear to read peoples ideas, dissect them or agree with them. If someone can create an idea that is useful, by all means it should go on the main forums a a topic of discussion and catch blizzards attention if an idea can an take off.

It's probably why they got rid of a "suggestion" forum because it was filled with garbage like the opening post.

[Leonard McCoy]

I would imagine that the reason this happens is because... well, half the time, no one offers constructive criticism. Usually, we get "This sucks" or "This is crap" but there is no reason why other than, I don't like it.

To have any kind of meaningful discussion, there needs to be more than "I simply don't like this". Hence, people push for reasons. It's to help fully understand why one does not like something.

Think of it this way... I tell you that "imaginary object 1" sucks. I don't give you anything else. You (as someone who likes "imaginary object 1" wants to know why) then have to ask me why I think it sucks. I refuse to give you anything else. Thus, you are stuck with what amounts to a useless opinion because there is no reasoning behind it, AND without reasoning, there can be no discussion.

So, people turn opinions back around on others to keep the discussion going. They are trying to save this particular thread from devolving further into a "QQ" and "Trollbait" thread.

See I don't think constructive dialogue necessarily entails that the person with the criticism need have a solution present at hand. In fact in alot of cases it's probably not realistic to expact that the majority of players or even just those posting on forums have the tools necessary to come up with a solution. It is possible to be constructive just by pointing out an apparent flaw in something and why you think it's a flaw. You may not now what to do about it, not every one is a game developer but that doesn't mean you can't have a perfectly constructive and valid criticism.

---------- Post added 2013-03-07 at 08:04 PM ----------

Because we are not a support group. I am not here to give anyone a hug and wipe away their tears. I'm hear to read peoples ideas, dissect them or agree with them. If someone can create an idea that is useful, by all means it should go on the main forums a a topic of discussion and catch blizzards attention if an idea can an take off.

It's probably why they got rid of a "suggestion" forum because it was filled with garbage like the opening post.

You can disagree all you like but if your disagreement amounts to oh yea well you do better! then your not being very constructive. If your disagreements stems around critiquing the persons argument solely on the grounds that he or she doesn't have a solution present at hand then it's not very constructive.

[TheronShadowstorm]

See I don't think constructive dialogue necessarily entails that the person with the criticism need have a solution present at hand. In fact in alot of cases it's probably not realistic to expact that the majority of players or even just those posting on forums have the tools necessary to come up with a solution. It is possible to be constructive just by pointing out an apparent flaw in something and why you think it's a flaw. You may not now what to do about it, not every one is a game developer but that doesn't mean you can't have a perfectly constructive and valid criticism.

---------- Post added 2013-03-07 at 08:04 PM ----------



You can disagree all you like but if your disagreement amounts to oh yea well you do better! then your not being very constructive. If your disagreements stems around critiquing the persons argument solely on the grounds that he or she doesn't have a solution present at hand then it's not very constructive.

We clearly then need a subforum just for QQ's that have nothing useful to throw them all in one room to hug and cry together. I'm not interested in hearing snivveling. That's the hard truth. It's the same in a professional work environemnt.

If a work situation sucks shit, sure let your boss know about it. But if your boss already knows, and everyone on your team and your bosses boss knows a situation sucks shit. There will come a point where no one wants to hear the same complaining and wil l want someone to contribute suggestions to address the complaints. People have been complaining about PvP balance for YEARS not only in WoW, but in other games.

For every 100 posts of QQ, there is probably 1 post that a developer might find useful and can pass it along as an idea to work with. If people want stuff changed and fixed. Lets change that ratio. Lets change it to 1 useful post for every 10 QQ posts. The less garbage a developer has to wade through to find that one gem they need, the faster it gets fixed.

[Leonard McCoy]

We clearly then need a subforum just for QQ's that have nothing useful to throw them all in one room to hug and cry together. I'm not interested in hearing snivveling. That's the hard truth. It's the same in a professional work environemnt.

If a work situation sucks shit, sure let your boss know about it. But if your boss already knows, and everyone on your team and your bosses boss knows a situation sucks shit. There will come a point where no one wants to hear the same complaining and wil l want someone to contribute suggestions to address the complaints. People have been complaining about PvP balance for YEARS not only in WoW, but in other games.

For every 100 posts of QQ, there is probably 1 post that a developer might find useful and can pass it along as an idea to work with. If people want stuff changed and fixed. Lets change that ratio. Lets change it to 1 useful post for every 10 QQ posts. The less garbage a developer has to wade through to find that one gem they need, the faster it gets fixed.

Your interest is of absolutely ZERO concern to me. We don't need a forum for QQ. We just need people on this forum to practice better restraint if they can't actually add anything constructive.

[TheronShadowstorm]

It's a generalized QQ thread with no real focus other than crying. People are being constructive by trying to educate uninformed that they are not helping and how the QQ'er needs to stop QQ'ing and be productive.

[Leonard McCoy]

It's a generalized QQ thread with no real focus other than crying. People are being constructive by trying to educate uninformed that they are not helping and how the QQ'er needs to stop QQ'ing and be productive.

People are. Your criticism that he should come up with something better isn't. It isn't a generalized "qq" thread, his "qq" is very specific.

[TheronShadowstorm]

People are. Your criticism that he should come up with something better isn't. It isn't a generalized "qq" thread, his "qq" is very specific.

So your criticize people for criticizing someone, so I criticize you for criticizing me for criticizing the post. Grats, your a hypocrit.

[Leonard McCoy]

So your criticize people for criticizing someone, so I criticize you for criticizing me for criticizing the post. Grats, your a hypocrit.

My criticism was wholly constructive. Yours wasn't. When understand the difference, you'll probably then understand why "HEY MAN IF YOU THINK YOU CAN DO BETTER" is also not very constructive.

[TheronShadowstorm]

My criticism was wholly constructive. Yours wasn't. When understand the difference, you'll probably then understand why "HEY MAN IF YOU THINK YOU CAN DO BETTER" is also not very constructive.

Umm my post was constructive, I stated why his post was not construtive and gave an example of why it's not as simple as he thinks he is. There was a lot more thought put into my criticism than he put into his QQ post. So you are criticizing someone that provided something constructive. You are a hypocrite in that you disagree with anyone else's constructive criticism by implying only your criticism in this thread is constructive.

[Leonard McCoy]

Umm my post was constructive, I stated why his post was not construtive and gave an example of why it's not as simple as he thinks he is. There was a lot more thought put into my criticism than he put into his QQ post. So you are criticizing someone that provided something constructive. You are a hypocrite in that you disagree with anyone else's constructive criticism by implying only your criticism in this thread is constructive.

No it wasn't. At least in my opinion it wasn't. Your criticism basically amounted to you think you can do better? Instead of offering your own solution you attacked his position and then when I pointed out that your "constructive criticism" basically amounted to a throw down challenge to out develop the developers you turned around and insisted this thread was just whining and qq.

[TheronShadowstorm]

No it wasn't. At least in my opinion it wasn't. Your criticism basically amounted to you think you can do better?

Again, your opinion, your opionating that any criticism against the QQ is not constructive and that you, and you alone can be constructive? Constructive criticism is a matter of the substance of the argument, not whether right, wrong or if you disagree with it. If the OP had posted his idea of how it could be better, even half ass or completely wrong, it would be constructive.

Your thinking is illogical.

[Deletedaccount1]

Ah yes the evening chorus has begun.

[Leonard McCoy]

Again, your opinion, your opionating that any criticism against the QQ is not constructive and that you, and you alone can be constructive? Constructive criticism is a matter of the substance of the argument, not whether right, wrong or if you disagree with it. If the OP had posted his idea of how it could be better, even half ass or completely wrong, it would be constructive.

Your thinking is illogical.

Not much of a vulcan are you.

Leonard McCoy isn't a vulcan. That's neither here nor there.

I'm opionating that criticism which is based in the argument "if you think you can do better than go right ahead" is not constructive. In other words your argument lacks substance because it boils down to

How do you propose this should be fixed then?

which isn't constructive in the least. The OP was far more constructive.

[TheronShadowstorm]

Leonard McCoy isn't a vulcan. That's neither here nor there.

I edited as I took a closer look, I forgot its Nimoy, not McCoy(I never watched StarTrek TOS). Your avatar was small enough for me to think Spock (edit:fixed his name)

---------- Post added 2013-03-07 at 03:48 PM ----------

The OP was far more constructive.

Huh wah?

And what mental midget decided to make the recipes a discovery? IMO, someone needs to go to the development team and start lynching people.

OH WAIT! Blizzard has left the class restrictions on every piece of gear, so dks and monks will never be able to access these pieces of gear. THANKS A LOT YOU ASSHOLES!

Blizzard still hasn't done anything to fix the problems with pvp.
This may sound like a QQ thread, but it really isn't. I don't get why blizzard has blatantly turned a blind eye to many of the major probolems with the game in its current state, and keeps tryign to fix things that aren't broken, i.e. T2 weapons, etc.

The reason i don't offer ideas is because the fixes are so freaking simple that they really speak for themselves.

I'm sorry but how is that constructive? This sounds more like a QQ rant.